Post
by Xyex » Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:36 pm
My attempt at a list based on the Daizenshuu and SEG + basic reasoning and deduction. Going to limit myself to just the Saiya-jins, Piccolo, and enemies for this one. The Buu Saga has a lot more speculation than the Android or Cell Sagas. :/
Trunks Saga
Trunks - 5
+ Full Power - 3,100,000
+ SSJ - 155,000,000
Goku - 3,200,000
+ SSJ - 160,000,000
Cyborg Freeza - 4,000,000
+ Full Power - 135,000,000
Cold - 3,500,000
* Trunks is compared to Goku (on Namek), so similar power for him, and Goku's stronger than Trunks. Freeza's said to be stronger, so he is.
Anroid Saga
Piccolo - 2,000,000
+ W/out Weights - 7,500,000
+ Full Power - 75,000,000
Goku - 6,200,000
+ SSJ - 310,000,000
+ Post Kamehameha - 75,000,000
Vegeta - 6,400,000
+ SSJ - 320,000,000
+ Drained - 285,000,000
Trunks - 3,150,000
+ SSJ - 158,750,000
Android 19 - 40,000,000
+ Goku's Kamehameha - 145,000,000
+ Goku's ki - 215,000,000
+ Vegeta's ki - 250,000,000
Android 20 - 50,000,000
+ Yamcha's ki - 50,050,000
+ Vegeta's ki - 51,050,000
+ Krillin's ki - 51,100,000
+ Piccolo's ki - 53,100,000
Android 18 - 400,000,000
Android 17 - 465,000,000
Android 16 - 525,000,000
* Piccolo's now a lot stronger, as noted by Krillin's "he's not even a Super Saiya-jin" which indicates he's up there, but doesn't mean he's actually on SSJ level at this point. Goku's power is misleading, as his sickness is causing him strain and pain, making his punches do far less damage. Vegeta's possibly stronger than Goku now, but not by much. Trunks has only had 6 or 8 months to improve since he only stayed in his time long enough to recharge the time machine. 19 and 20 are weaklings in-and-of-themselves, their power stealing is the real threat.
* The powers here were largely reverse engineered from statements made in the Trunks special. There the future Androids reveal they've been using less than half of their power to pound Gohan into dust. In the series, Trunks thinks the past Androids are stronger than his, which logically implies to me that the ones in the future are still holding back. I figure Trunks, being a little better than Gohan, has been fighting them at half their power, and he can supposedly hold his own against them, so I just made half their power a little over his full, then doubled that to get their maximums. Then figured out where the Z Fighters and 19 and 20 fit into things going back from there.
Cell Saga
Piccolo - 75,000,000
+ Kami - 475,000,000
+ Worn - 400,000,000
Vegeta - 13,500,000
+ SSJ - 675,000,000
+ SSJU - 1,350,000,000
+ Final Flash - 1,620,000,000
Trunks - 8,750,000
+ SSJ - 437,500,000
+ SSJU - 875,000,000
+ SSJU2 (restrained) - 1,750,000,000
+ SSJU2 (full power) - 3,500,000,000
Cell - 375,000,000
+ Piccolo - 420,000,000
+ Humans Absorbed - 520,000,000
+ Semi-Perfect - 985,000,000
+ Perfect - 1,600,000,000
+ Buff - 6,300,000,000
* After fusing with Kami, Piccolo's pretty much even with 17, though it looks like he has the edge at first. By the time Cell shows up, however, he's worn out and can't even scratch him. Cell, started off clearly weaker than fused Piccolo, and was absorbing humans to match up with the Androids, so he's weaker than them at first. But when he turns up at the Piccolo vs. Cell fight he's about on par with 16. Absorbing 17 increases his power only by as much power as 17 has, which is admittedly a guess (everything after the early Android stuff is pure guessing after all) but I find it logical since his Semi-Perfect form is only a step toward his full power. His 'buff' level I've got as a 50% increase (over his full power, listed below) as it's an almost-SSJU state, like he's in an constant almost-SSJ state.
* The SSJU and SSJU2 levels go with the idea that SSJU is an improper attempt at using SSJ2 power in SSJ form, and SSJU2 is an improper attempt at using SSJ3 power in the SSJ form. So they yield the same levels of power as those forms (x2 and x4 as given by the SEG) but have much greater drawbacks than the proper forms do, which is why Trunks's SSJU2 form is so much stronger than either his or Vegeta's SSJU state.
Cell Games
Mr. Satan - 7
Piccolo - 700,000,000
Trunks - 40,000,000
+ SSJ - 2,000,000,000
Vegeta - 42,000,000
+ SSJ - 2,100,000,000
Goku - 65,000,000
+ SSJ (50%) - 1,625,000,000
+ SSJ (100%) - 3,250,000,000
Gohan - 80,000,000
+ SSJ (50%) - 2,000,000,000
+ SSJ (90%) - 3,600,000,000
+ SSJ (100%) - 4,000,000,000
+ SSJ (Anger boosted) - 4,800,000,000
+ SSJ2 - 8,000,000,000
+ SSJ2 (full power) - 9,600,000,000
+ Injured (mental block) - 4,300,000,000
+ Injured (determined) - 7,500,000,000
+ Kamehameha - 9,375,000,000
+ Injured (full power) + Kamehameha - 12,000,000,000
Cell - 1,625,000,000
+ Vs Goku - 3,500,000,000
+ Full Power - 4,200,000,000
+ Buff - 6,300,000,000
+ Super Perfect - 8,400,000,000
+ Kamehameha - 10,000,000,000
+ Kamehameha (distracted) - 9,000,000,000
Cell Jrs - 2,500,000,000
* Lots to explain on this one. Piccolo's pretty much just a rough guess at this point, and nothing else. He's gotten a lot stronger, but even he knows it's not nearly enough. Trunks and Vegeta have attempted the Perma-SSJ training but not gotten as great an increase as Goku and Gohan did. Goku and Gohan are so much stronger because of the Perma-SSJ training putting such a great strain on them and resulting in major increases here.
* Also, Gohan never fully unleashes his SSJ power in his fight with Cell, always subconsciously holding some of it back just due to his nature. His anger boosts his power before, and after, his SSJ2 transformation. Gohan also only *thinks* he lost half of his power, once again his nature, and also his own self-doubt, getting in the way of his power. Goku manages to get him determined again and his power goes up closer to what he truly has left, but he doesn't unleash it all until right at the end.
* As for Cell, his starting level is the same as the level he fought Vegeta and Trunks at. His full power is just a little bit over that, but enough so that Goku would have no chance against it. His buff is 50% of that, and Super Perfect is a doubling of his Perfect power (akin to an SSJ2 transformation). Vegeta's blast distracts him and reduces his concentration, thus his attack strength, and Gohan lets his full power loose at the same time and boom, no more Cell. As for the Cell jrs., they're about 1/3rd of Cells maximum power in his 'buff' state.
* As for Mark, well, he's better than the normal people.
Saiyaman/World Tournament Sagas
Mr. Satan - 7
Videl - 9
Spoppovitch - 11
Goten - 8,500,000
+ SSJ - 425,000,000
Trunks - 9,000,000
+ SSJ - 450,000,000
Piccolo - 950,000,000
Gohan - 72,000,000
+ SSJ - 3,600,000,000
+ SSJ2 - 7,200,000,000
Vegeta - 82,000,000
+ SSJ - 4,100,000,000
Goku - 120,000,000
+ SSJ - 6,000,000,000
Kibito - 85,000,000
Kaioshin - 1,800,000,000
* Mark's the same, Videl's better than him, Piccolo's improved some, Gohan's gotten worse, Goten and Trunks are absurdly strong for a pair of kids (and just a little over 18), Vegeta's just a little better than Gohan was before, and Goku's a lot better. Bout all there is to say, here, as these are mostly just assumptions. SSJ2 Gohan is still used as a 'measuring stick' later by Vegeta, so we know he's not that much better than him, and Goten and Trunks only fought around evenly with 18, and that's all we really know for them.
* Kibito's supposed to be strong enough that Gohan would need to transform to win, but not so much stronger that Gohan couldn't put up a fight against him, so there's that. And Kaioshin is implied stronger than Piccolo but clearly much weaker than the adult SSJs, and scared of Dabura (even without the M on his head) so that's that.
Majin Saga
Gohan - 72,000,000
+ SSJ - 3,600,000,000
Goku - 120,000,000
+ SSJ - 6,000,000,000
+ SSJ2 (burst) - 9,000,000,000
+ SSJ2 (full) - 12,000,000,000
+ SSJ3 - 48,000,000,000
Vegeta - 82,000,000
+ SSJ - 4,100,000,000
+ SSJ2 - 8,200,000,000
+ Majin - 12,000,000,000
Pui Pui - 20,000,000
Yakon - 75,000,000
+ Energy - 150,000,000
Dabura - 4,000,000,000
Buu - 4,000,000,000
+ Powered-up - 40,000,000,000
* Not much to say with these, either. Goku compares Dabura to Cell, Vegeta beats Pui Pui easily in base, Goku makes Yakon blow up by eating too much, and Majin Vegeta proves about equal to Goku. And Buu, of course, trounces them all (cept SSJ3 Goku). All levels are pretty simple and straight forward.
Fusion Saga
Kibito - 85,000,000
Kaioshin - 1,800,000,000
Kibitoshin - 9,425,000,000
Piccolo - 950,000,000
Goten - 8,500,000
+ SSJ - 425,000,000
+ RoSaT - 9,200,000
+ SSJ - 460,000,000
Trunks - 9,000,000
+ SSJ - 450,000,000
+ RoSaT - 9,500,000
+ SSJ - 475,000,000
Gotenks - 170,000,000
+ SSJ - 8,500,000,000
+ RoSaT - 184,000,000
+ SSJ - 9,200,000,000
+ SSJ2 - 18,400,000,000
+ SSJ3 - 73,600,000,000
Ultimate Gohan - 100,000,000,000
Goku - 120,000,000
Vegeta - 120,000,000
Vegetto - 4,800,000,000
+ SSJ - 240,000,000,000
Buu - 40,000,000,000
Super Buu - 75,000,000,000
Super Buu2 - 149,550,000,000
Super Buu1.5 - 76,885,000,000
Super Buu3 - 176,885,000,000
* Kibitoshin got a nice increase for his fusion, but only 1/4th of what Goku and Vegeta got since them being rivals makes it stronger and all. Used 20x for the dance (and Vegetto), mostly picked it at a whim, but also can't have SSJ3 Gotenks too high or things get messy. Whatever, not much to say here, either. Everyone's basically just as much stronger as they need to be do beat who they need to beat. Super Buu's powers come directly from those he's absorbed (and I go with him drawing out their full power, so long as they are at it when he absorbs them, so he's got SSJ Goten and SSJ Trunks powering him, not just their base forms). Vegetto owns everyone, of course.
Kid Buu Saga
Goku - 120,000,000
+ SSJ - 6,000,000,000
+ SSJ2 - 12,000,000,000
+ SSJ3 - 48,000,000,000
+ Super Spirit Bomb - 520,000,000,000
Vegeta - 120,000,000
+ SSJ - 6,000,000,000
+ SSJ2 - 12,000,000,000
Kid Buu - 52,000,000,000
* Kid Buu's just a little stronger than Goku. Enough that it's a problem, especially on top of his energy drain problems. As I see it Goku created the Spirit Bomb to be much stronger than Buu in order to be sure of his destruction. Otherwise, nothing really notable here.
End of Z
Pan - 7,500,000
Goten - 9,000,000
Trunks - 9,250,000
Vegeta - 148,000,000
Goku - 150,000,000
+ Vs. Uub - 50,000
Uub - 20,000
+ Mad - 50,000
* I figure Goten and Trunks lost some power from slacking off, Goku and Vegeta have gained some more, and Pan's a tiny power house being that she's Gohan's kid. Uub has all of Buu's power in there but no way to pull it out yet, so he's not that strong here.
Aaaand, that's that. I'd wanted to do something akin to this for a while, just to see how it'd turn out... and I'm not all that fond of it. I don't like the numbers that much, they get too high too fast, but using the SEG numbers for SSJ2/3 and pushing them back into SSJU and SSJU2 as well makes it unavoidable, I suppose. Oh well.
I'll post my full DB list that uses the numbers I like sometime in the next few days. Gotta finish adding notes to it.
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Chat Quotes
<Kaboom> I'm just glad that he now sounds more like Invader Zim than Rita Repulsa
<Xyex> Original Freeza never sounded like a chick to me.
<Kaboom> Neither does Rita
<Xyex> Good point.