How does DBZ Kai English Dub stack up?

[MR.Mark]

a lot of the Funi recasts have been more memorable than the Japanese ones for Kai too, like:

Ghurd: a lot more interesting

Jheese: a lot more interesting

Zarbon: just more depth to the delivery

[penguintruth]

Jheese: a lot more interesting

Jheese isn't that great in the dub. Is he supposed to be Australian? Scottish? British? WHY MUST HE ALWAYS HAVE AN ACCENT? And why can't he decide which one it is?

[Turtle Marked Stone]

Jheese: a lot more interesting

I think that whole Australian accent thing is really dumb personally. It's another one of those instances where it's blatant "well people remember him having an accent so...guess he has to." If there was ANY reason he should have this accent I wouldn't care but until then it's just silly to me. Interesting, sure but...I'm not so sure about it being the good interesting. Outside of this I agree with you.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Just because some of Funimation's cast has improved, doesn't make them as good as the Japanese cast. Don't get so worked up over them doing their jobs competently for once.

And why not? We finally have a good dub! Why should we not be excited? That makes no sense to me. Are you saying we shouldn't be excited over that? What reason do we have not to be excited now that we have a great English dub for DBZ? Although, like I said, I think the English version (of Kai) is better than the Japanese version.

Back to that. Ya know, when I said earlier that some of the Japanese voice actors were half-assing their performances (NOTE: I said "half-assing," not that they're doing badly), one of the biggest examples that comes to mind is actually my favorite member of the Japanese voice cast: Ryusei Nakao. You know the first line that Freeza has after emerging from the water after being hit by the Genki Dama/Spirit Bomb? "For a moment there even I thought I was done for...that the great Freeza had nearly REACHED THE POINT OF DEATH!" Compare his delivery of that line in Z to his delivery in Kai...that anger is still there, but it sounds so much more forced as opposed to the chillingly psychotic delivery he gave it for Z. Actually, Mike himself pointed it out in one of the podcasts, and actually compared the audio side-by-side, but I can't remember which episode number. Presumably the one right after the episode of Kai with Goku going Super Saiyan for the first time aired.

[penguintruth]

A couple of isolated examples of less than stellar deliveries hardly means the dub cast is better. Horikawa at his worst is still generally better than Sabat. Just because Sabat's doing a good job, doesn't mean he's doing an amazing one.

[MR.Mark]

Jheese: a lot more interesting

Jheese isn't that great in the dub. Is he supposed to be Australian? Scottish? British? WHY MUST HE ALWAYS HAVE AN ACCENT? And why can't he decide which one it is?

Compared to his Japanese Z voice, Kai dub Jheese falls short, other than that, meh. There's not much to the character to get as worked up about as you are.

A couple of isolated examples of less than stellar deliveries hardly means the dub cast is better. Horikawa at his worst is still generally better than Sabat. just because Sabat's doing a good job, doesn't mean he's doing an amazing one.

Exactly the same can be said with the Japanese cast for Kai, so why the "Japanese are superior voice-over gods" routine?


"Japanese actor A at his worst is still generally better than English actor B", just comes off like a excuse for a double standard to me.

[TheBlackPaladin]

A couple of isolated examples of less than stellar deliveries hardly means the dub cast is better.

I just cited one example for the sake of showing a point. I can't (or rather, won't) go through every single episode on a minute-by-minute basis and point out the many examples, that's just one that immediately comes to mind.

[penguintruth]

"Japanese actor A at his worst is still generally better than English actor B", just comes off like a excuse for a double standard to me.

We're talking about the difference between Ryo Horikawa and Chris Sabat, here, not Ryo Horikawa and some great English VA.

Sabat is a mid tier voice talent at best.

The only really good VAs in the Funimation cast are Clinkenbeard, Rial, and the Ayres brothers.

[Deimos]

Sean and Nozawa both sound corny and unnatural, I'd say it's part of the character, I think you just notice it more with Sean because it's in your native language.

This is what I don't understand. I can see how one who speaks English spot out poorly acted lines or dialogue in English. However, how can you tell if the acting is poor or great if you aren't fluent in Japanese when watching it in Japanese? And if it is good acting, how will you fully appreciate it if you are unable to understand it without subtitles?

[MR.Mark]

I thought we we're talking about performances here, not actors reputation or status.

If Jim Cummings came in to do a character, and did a terrible job, would he still be better at his certain character than all the current FUNI actors on his worst day?

Sabat has become a seasoned VA in his own right, and if he's truly "mid tier" well, that makes Nozawa and Horikawa's weaker performances all the more apparent.

Bottom line, we're debating over a children's cartoon, containing material from a writing and acting standpoint, that is far from untouchable in an English adaption. As it stands, Sean and Chris are doing just fine representing who these characters are in the Kai dub.

With few exceptions of course, Kaio still sucks.

This is what I don't understand. I can see how one who speaks English spot out poorly acted lines or dialogue in English. However, how can you tell if the acting is poor or great if you aren't fluent in Japanese when watching it in Japanese? And if it is good acting, how will you fully appreciate it if you are unable to understand it without subtitles?

You don't have to read subtitles or know Japanese to realize "YUURAA-KKKKK-KKKK-KKKKKKK" isn't Oscar winning acting delivery.

[penguintruth]

I thought we we're talking about performances here, not actors reputation or status.

If Jim Cummings came in to do a character, and did a terrible job, would he still be better at his certain character than all the current FUNI actors on his worst day?

Sabat has become a seasoned VA in his own right, and if he's truly "mid tier" well, that makes Nozawa and Horikawa's weaker performances all the more apparent.

Bottom line, we're debating over a children's cartoon, containing material from a writing and acting standpoint, that is far from untouchable in an English adaption. As it stands, Sean and Chris are doing just fine representing who these characters are in the Kai dub.

With few exceptions of course, Kaio still sucks.

One earns a reputation for quality. I don't like Toshio Furukawa just because he's the Japanese voice of Piccolo. He's earned his reputation, because I've found he's dominated in every role he's played.

"Doing fine" is not doing well enough. The Japanese VAs are doing more than "well enough" most of the time.

Look, I'm not hating on the Kai dub. At all. I think it's a very competent dub. But I think it's exaggerating to say it's better than the Japanese version just because they're not fucking up now. Just not fucking up is not worth a pat on the back. The only ones excelling in their roles to the point of award worthy are Chris Ayres and a couple others.

Competent is not excellent.

[MR.Mark]

No, what's exaggerating is implying that people feel certain Funi actors are doing better simply because "they're not fucking up now". Your just gonna have to accept that even Japanese actors can be outdone, particularly in Kai, and many people have cited examples that back up these opinions.

"Competent is not excellent"

Correct, but competent is good, and even better when it's also mixed with excellent. Many agree that Kai in Japanese is competent, but what you seem to be arguing is:

"Japanese competent> English competent"

For no other reason than because it's the Japanese actors.

[penguintruth]

Incorrect. I don't think anyone in the Japanese cast is being competent at best. There are a few moments here and there when they stumble, but generally they're still excellent.

In my opinion, as good as the dub has been, the gap between the two versions, Japanese and English, hasn't closed all the way.

It has nothing to do with the VAs being Japanese or English. It's about quality. Stop painting me as some mad Japanophile. Trust me, I like way more English VAs than Japanese VAs.

[MR.Mark]

Incorrect. I don't think anyone in the Japanese cast is being competent at best. There are a few moments here and there when they stumble, but generally they're still excellent.

A Bulma that barely raises her voice when she needs to is not excellent.

A Vegeta that sounds like he needs his transmission checked when he powers up is not excellent.

A Cell that's imitating Nozawa's kkksksk and phoning in his yells is not excellent.

A Goku that can barely do a KameHameHa without sounding like he's gonna die is not excellent.

In my opinion, as good as the dub has been, the gap between the two versions, Japanese and English, hasn't closed all the way.

Agreed, I never argued otherwise.

It's about quality.

Indeed, and the point is it varies in both versions, to extents from person to person.

[penguintruth]

I've liked Nozawa's Kamehamehas in Kai, but I concede that she was a little weak in the first arc.

Look, I've probably been overreacting. Sorry.

[MR.Mark]

I didn't really think any of Nozawa's Kamehamehas were bad in Kai, but I concede that she was a little weak in the first arc.

Look, I've probably been overreacting. Sorry.

You better be sorry, you mad Japanophile!

Funny, but I find Nozawa at her best in Kai during the Raditz stuff, after that, she's been a little worse than Z. But she's still...competent for a lack of a better word.

[Cootie]

I've liked Nozawa's Kamehamehas in Kai, but I concede that she was a little weak in the first arc.

Look, I've probably been overreacting. Sorry.

Speaking of voices, I would much appreciate it if you continued doing your voice preference chart. I always enjoyed reading it and I wish you would work on it more. I actually am interested on your thoughts on Nappa's many talents for some odd reason.

[XanatosVanBadass]

A Bulma that barely raises her voice when she needs to is not excellent

To be fair, she was only like that in the first episode. She improves as the series progresses.

A Vegeta that sounds like he needs his transmission checked when he powers up is not excellent.

I do agree with this. It is a shame as I always loved Ryo's work, especially in Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

[penguintruth]

I've liked Nozawa's Kamehamehas in Kai, but I concede that she was a little weak in the first arc.

Look, I've probably been overreacting. Sorry.

Speaking of voices, I would much appreciate it if you continued doing your voice preference chart. I always enjoyed reading it and I wish you would work on it more. I actually am interested on your thoughts on Nappa's many talents for some odd reason.

I've been working on another part, but I haven't gotten to Nappa yet. I'm not entirely sure I even have a Nappa preference.

[Daimo-Rukiri]

1. Against Ocean dub

A Million times over, for someone who grew up with the Japanese version AND NOT the English version you'd understand. The dialog, the music, setting etc was just so off and wrong.

2. Against old Funi work.

I have watched FUNis old dub and I'm going to say what I've always said, a trash dub. FUNi is finally trying to be as close as possible and all the actors are excited to give it a try and you can hear it! Love the recasts such as Gohan, Bulma, Ginyu Special Corps, and Freeza!

3. Against other similar dubs (One Piece, Naruto etc)

I'd say dialog wise it's on par and sometimes better, against FUNis One Piece dub it's on par.

4. Japanese dub of Kai

While I always do prefer the Japanese version and it's nice to have a stereo track instead of Mono, I honestly have to say FUNis work is on par with the Japanese version. Some Characters like Vegeta and Goku I still prefer the Japanese actors but Sean and Chris have been doing an oustanding job and I'll give them props for that and actually acting the character correctly this time a round.

The dub is far superior than any English Dub related material.