How strong is Kid Trunks and Goten?

[dbgtFO]

They are only ridiculous strong for their ages. Trunks struggled in a gravity that shouldn't be a problem for pretty much everybody after those 3 years of training.

Lolwut? explain, why you think other characters shouldn't have a problem in 150x Earth's gravity, when the highest people like Piccolo and the Earthlings have experienced was 6,66% of that.

How strong you are dictates how much gravity you can handle, not what you previously experienced.

Yeah it's about the body keeping itself together under those immense conditions, that's one aspect, but Trunks' body was strong enough to handle the strain, he just wasn't used to that high level of gravity.
Even though you are considerably strong, you will still have some initial problems, when you aren't used to the gravity, that's what Babidi and Pui Pui hoped would throw Vegeta off balance, just like it did Goku back in the Saiyan Arc.

Put Piccolo in there and I'm sure even he would have to get used to it at first, since he hasn't experienced it before.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Fuck no, it doesn't. Yamcha was much stronger than Goku's 416 at the beginning of the series, yet he still had trouble with x10 gravity, just like Goku did when he first arrived at Kaio's planet.

So?!

So, my point is that you were saying how strong you are dictates how much gravity you can handle, yet Yamcha at 1,200-1,500 (that's over 4 times Goku's 416) had just as much trouble under x10 gravity that Goku did.

You need to be trained in the body to handle gravity, rather than it just being a matter of strength.

Then why doesn't Goku dies in x10 gravity? He should only be able to handle x1,1.[/quote]

Well, because he was trained and his body was naturally hardened enough to take it without dying. It's not just about power, it's about strengthening your body's defenses. Nonetheless, he was still considerably more heavy under x10 gravity and much slower.

Vegeta was the only one in the series who had trained at over x100 gravity, so it's no wonder Trunks crumbled under x150.

So Trunks have been training in the gravity room since x1,1 gravity?[/quote]

What? I don't even understand what you're saying here. Trunks hasn't been trained to handle that kind of gravity like the others--he was just blessed with unnatural power, far above the Earthlings even though he hadn't had nearly as much training as they had. It doesn't get much simpler than that.

[Godo]

We all know that the best accurate answer is:

Stronger than fish that attacked Goku, weaker than Vegetto. You know I'm right, and there is nothing you can do about it.

[Senzu_Bean]

You have A and B. A is weaker than B. A cannot handle 10x gravity. B doesn't necessarily have to handle that just because he is stronger than A.

It doesn't get much simpler than that.

Yeah, he can handle x150 gravity because he is that strong, not because he had trained previously in lower gravities.

[Bussani]

So, my point is that you were saying how strong you are dictates how much gravity you can handle, yet Yamcha at 1,200-1,500 (that's over 4 times Goku's 416) had just as much trouble under x10 gravity that Goku did.

Did he? The only hint of him having trouble at all in the manga, as far as I know, was him commenting that he could barely run. That doesn't necessarily mean he was having more trouble than Goku did. For all we know he was having 4 times less trouble! It could even just be a case of needing to adjust your balance, since every part of you is now heavier.

Just to complicate matters, Saiyan babies are born in x10 gravity, and they're just fine. Even Goku with his battle power of 2.

[Senzu_Bean]

North Kaio stated that gravity directly effects someone power. He explained to Goku how the Saiyans are used to x10 Earth's gravity, and that is what gives them their strength. So unless Kaio doesn't know what he is talking about...

Heck, Trunks cannot handle x150 gravity in base and then he easily handles it after going Super Saiyan. What he did there? He increased his power.

[Bussani]

North Kaio stated that gravity directly effects someone power. He explained to Goku how the Saiyans are used to x10 Earth's gravity, and that is what gives them their strength. So unless Kaio doesn't know what he is talking about...

To be fair, Piccolo Daimao wasn't saying that high gravity doesn't make you stronger, just that a high power wouldn't make you automatically accustomed to it. That said, Kaio did gauge Goku's strength by looking at how well he could already perform in x10 gravity, sooo...

[Senzu_Bean]

That doesn't fit, no matter how you slice it. If inexperience with high gravity was the primary factor in this case, Trunks wouldn't have been able to move in 150G as a Super Saiyan, either. The fact that he could demonstrates that power was probably directly related to his performance in higher gravity.

[Piccolo Daimao]

So, my point is that you were saying how strong you are dictates how much gravity you can handle, yet Yamcha at 1,200-1,500 (that's over 4 times Goku's 416) had just as much trouble under x10 gravity that Goku did.

Did he? The only hint of him having trouble at all in the manga, as far as I know, was him commenting that he could barely run. That doesn't necessarily mean he was having more trouble than Goku did. For all we know he was having 4 times less trouble! It could even just be a case of needing to adjust your balance, since every part of you is now heavier.

Just to complicate matters, Saiyan babies are born in x10 gravity, and they're just fine. Even Goku with his battle power of 2.

Well, I take him "barely able to run" being the same as having trouble under x10 gravity, just like Goku did. When he first got there, he was barely able to run and had a hard time catching Bubbles. I see nothing that says he had any less trouble handling the gravity than Goku.

Although I do see Senzu_Bean's point. Trunks transformed into a Super Saiyan and was able to handle x150 gravity, no problem. Which annoys me, since I thought it would've gone deeper than simply having a high power.

[Senzu_Bean]

But it's just the same as weight-lifting. The more you can comfortably lift, the stronger you are, obvious really.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Yeah, I agree with you now.

[Bussani]

Well, I take him "barely able to run" being the same as having trouble under x10 gravity, just like Goku did. When he first got there, he was barely able to run and had a hard time catching Bubbles. I see nothing that says he had any less trouble handling the gravity than Goku.

Trouble, sure. But we don't know to what degree, or how strong Goku was when he could move around normally. Besides that, even if you had the strength and everything, your balance would have to be completely different. In that regard, I can see high gravity as being something you'd have to get used to no matter what your strength was--although how quick you'd adjust really depends on the person.

Although I do see Senzu_Bean's point. Trunks transformed into a Super Saiyan and was able to handle x150 gravity, no problem. Which annoys me, since I thought it would've gone deeper than simply having a high power.

If you think of body and mind as being two separate components to your overall power, you might be right about the body needing to be toughened in the gravity. This might even be implied when Goku comments about how tough his body's become after his training in x100 gravity, though that's just one interpretation. Super Saiyan, being a transformation, could automatically increase the body's toughness, too, which might explain why it made the gravity easier for Trunks.

But yeah, I don't think there's much in the manga that suggests high gravity is anything different than extreme weight training. I don't even remember whether Yamcha and the others had to catch Bubbles to get used to the gravity like Goku did or whether they just went straight into the training; I'm sure one of the guides mentions the training they went through, but I can't for the life of me remember which one.

[cpd12589]

I'd say they're near her in their Base forms, and above her by a large amount while Super Saiyan.

Most definitely. Those 2 little kids would tear C18 apart in their SSJ forms.

[astrallite]

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[astrallite]

18 was fighting the prize money first, she wanted to get it over with quick. I'm not convinced that she figured she would get steamrolled if the fight dragged on, this whole scene was supposed to be a gag.

Don't forget that the Androids can lower their power level substantially. The whole thing was nothing more than a sparring match (only 18 had actually managed to land any hits prior to the SS power up), and up until this point in the story (and I'd argue pretty much the entire story...), the main thing we had seen were Feats of Speed by the two kids rather than strength. The kids IMO are much faster than an adult Z-fighter of equivalent power level.

[jackjack]

I'd say if anyone was fighting at a suppresed level, it was Mighty Mask while SSJ. And whether 18 was at full power or not is completely irrelevant; it's her opinion of Trunks that counts.

[Nazi Cola]

Don't forget that the Androids can lower their power level substantially.

I thought they couldn't control their power level at all, they could only control their level of effort.

[dbgtFO]

Don't forget that the Androids can lower their power level substantially.

I thought they couldn't control their power level at all, they could only control their level of effort.

Yeah, they don't even have "power levels" in the first place.

[astrallite]

Don't forget that the Androids can lower their power level substantially.

I thought they couldn't control their power level at all, they could only control their level of effort.

Well 17 told Mirai Gohan that he was not even using 50% of his power, interpret it how you want.

[Savage68]

It was "half," not "50%." The latter's wording makes it seem as though #17 was meticulously outlining his power percentages, or something.