The gap between #17 and #18?

[Cipher]

Actually Gero made them a little different, it was stated in a special page in the manga

Well, that proved me wrong.

[Son Edo]

380-370

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I put 18 at about 85% of 17's power. A significant difference but not enough that 18 couldn't put up a little fight. I usually think of it as 18 being on par with weighted Piccolo with 17 being on par with full power Piccolo

This makes the most sense to me, and there really isn't anything to contradict it. So having 18 at somewhere between 80-90% of 17's power seems to fit nicely IMO.

[dbgtFO]

1.255x difference.

My NumBas:
270 million for 17
215 million for 18

Explanation: 17 states no one in the universe rivals his power. Going by Raditz and a saibaman's official battle power... 1.25x or smaller difference in fighting power would constitute as "rivaling".

Piccolo rivals both #17 & #18:

No.17: “Right. So why don’t you tell us who’s fighting who, while you’re at it?”
No.16: “I don’t know. Neither is in my data. But one of the powers is large enough to rival you two.”
No.17: “What?! Looks like Doctor Gero screwed up again. Your radar is broken. There’s no power in the world that rivals mine.”

So the gap between him, #17 & #18 is less than 1,25, which in turn means that the gap between #18 & #17 is smaller than that.
Even though #17 says no power rivals his, I'm more inclined to believe #16, that I am to believe an arrogant teenager, who doesn't know that the guy standing right next to him is actually the currently strongest person on Earth at least.

[lash]

Piccolo rivals both #17 & #18:

No.17: “Right. So why don’t you tell us who’s fighting who, while you’re at it?”
No.16: “I don’t know. Neither is in my data. But one of the powers is large enough to rival you two.”
No.17: “What?! Looks like Doctor Gero screwed up again. Your radar is broken. There’s no power in the world that rivals mine.”

So the gap between him, #17 & #18 is less than 1,25, which in turn means that the gap between #18 & #17 is smaller than that.
Even though #17 says no power rivals his, I'm more inclined to believe #16, that I am to believe an arrogant teenager, who doesn't know that the guy standing right next to him is actually the currently strongest person on Earth at least.

Piccolo rivals both when he's weighted/suppressed/not exerting full strength. Which means he's in the middle of the >1.25x gap 17 and 18 have. Since the Daizenhsuu shows that a 1.25x difference in battle power alone is in "rival range".
Piccolo is shown to completely match 17 at full power.

e.g:
17/Piccolo: 270
Suppressed Piccolo:(260-220)
18: 215

[dbgtFO]

Piccolo rivals both when he's weighted/suppressed/not exerting full strength. Which means he's in the middle of the >1.25x gap 17 and 18 have. Since the Daizenhsuu shows that a 1.25x difference in battle power alone is in "rival range".
Piccolo is shown to completely match 17 at full power.

e.g:
17/Piccolo: 270
Suppressed Piccolo:(260-220)
18: 215

I don't think weighted Piccolo surpassed #18. Usually when rivalling is mentioned it's in the context of a power smaller, but still close enough to put up a fight, so weighted Piccolo is weaker than #18 & #17, but he rivals their power.

like this:
17/Piccolo = 360
#18 = 320
Piccolo weighted = 290
It seems weird that #16 didn't mention that Weighted Piccolo was stronger than #18, if he really does surpass her with weights on and just states, that the power rivals them like he compares the power to the average of the androids.

[lash]

That's certainly one way to look at it. The only issue I have is that you'd be disregarding 17's comment. As he feels no one in the universe(to his knowledge) could even rival his strength...being full aware of 18's capabilities. 18 didn't say anything to correct him, nothing was contradicted later on, so personally I don't see any good reason not to believe him.

My interpretation takes 17's statement and 16's analysis into account.
The only way that could be is if weighted Piccolo is arguably between 17 and 18 in power...enough to rival both.
Saying one rivals another puts them in the vicinity of one another's Ki, but nothing definite about one being stronger or weaker then the other. In other words, I don't think 16 had to really explicitly state Piccolo surpassed 18, considering he's making a rough generalization by including 17.

[dbgtFO]

That's certainly one way to look at it. The only issue I have is that you'd be disregarding 17's comment.

Obviously .

As he feels no one in the universe(to his knowledge) could even rival his strength...being full aware of 18's capabilities. 18 didn't say anything to correct him, nothing was contradicted later on, so personally I don't see any good reason not to believe him.

In my opinion #17 talks BS all the time when comparing himself to others, so I take whatever he says with a grain of salt.
He just has so many points going against him, that I couldn't care less what he thinks lol.

My interpretation takes 17's statement and 16's analysis into account.
The only way that could be is if weighted Piccolo is arguably between 17 and 18 in power...enough to rival both.
Saying one rivals another puts them in the vicinity of one another's Ki, but nothing definite about one being stronger or weaker then the other. In other words, I don't think 16 had to really explicitly state Piccolo surpassed 18, considering he's making a rough generalization by including 17.

Okay I can understand that.

[p123]

Each statement is of equal value IMO.. 17 is superior to 18 but it's not by huge margins


I have 18 at 93% of 17 , borderline rival range but far enough A clear superiority is in place

[Piccolo Daimao]

That's certainly one way to look at it. The only issue I have is that you'd be disregarding 17's comment. As he feels no one in the universe(to his knowledge) could even rival his strength...being full aware of 18's capabilities. 18 didn't say anything to correct him, nothing was contradicted later on, so personally I don't see any good reason not to believe him.

#16 didn't say anything to correct him either. And #18 knows #17's stronger than her anyway, but I doubt neither of them know by how much. #17 was just being a typical arrogant villain. He claims he's the strongest in the universe, even after fighting Piccolo.

[lash]

#16 didn't say anything to correct him either. And #18 knows #17's stronger than her anyway, but I doubt neither of them know by how much. #17 was just being a typical arrogant villain. He claims he's the strongest in the universe, even after fighting Piccolo.

Because 16 rarely says anything opinionated. At this point, he only speaks when spoken to.

17 claims he's the strongest in history before the fight even climaxed.
He had no issues stating that both him and Piccolo were on par after the fight was over, but that Piccolo would likely lose due to stamina.

[dbgtFO]

#16 didn't say anything to correct him either. And #18 knows #17's stronger than her anyway, but I doubt neither of them know by how much. #17 was just being a typical arrogant villain. He claims he's the strongest in the universe, even after fighting Piccolo.

Because 16 rarely says anything opinionated. At this point, he only speaks when spoken to.

17 claims he's the strongest in history before the fight even climaxed.
He had no issues stating that both him and Piccolo were on par after the fight was over, but that Piccolo would likely lose due to stamina.

Agreed. If one should make a case against #17's statements, you'll probably have to go over his fight with Imperfect Cell, where he even after having gotten his ass handed to him is convinced, that he can beat Cell.

[lash]

Ok lets go over it:
17 was convinced 16 had injured Cell a great deal.
17 basically states that he wanted to finish Cell off for payback.

I dunno why we're defaulting to the villainy arrogance as an excuse to disregard his statements. I haven't seen a good enough excuse for 17 at least.

[dbgtFO]

Ok lets go over it:
17 was convinced 16 had injured Cell a great deal.
17 basically states that he wanted to finish Cell off for payback.

I dunno why we're defaulting to the villainy arrogance as an excuse to disregard his statements. I haven't seen a good enough excuse for 17 at least.

You win this one. My version didn't include #17's line about being convinced Cell was damaged.
Regardless for my power levels it'd be 360/320 just because.

[p123]

Good POVs... Yes 360 / 320 is a fine gap... It's best to get a set percentage you feel comfortable with and using that, remember that numbers may change, but percentages should stick...


Come to NeoSeeker we are about to start a


Piccolo > 19 / 20 ( Pre ) > SSJ Trunks ( Mecha )


Type of debate. This guy over there Infamous 666, one of the best in the business, has really shown a side to that issue, which is mind blowing stuff, and like WTF how? kind of reaction, but , the dude has a solid solid POV. Come check it out DBGTFO, or do you have a name over there already?

[dbgtFO]

Come check it out DBGTFO, or do you have a name over there already?

Nope, I'm fine with only being a user on 1 DB message board
And on SSJ Trunks < 19/20 < Piccolo, I checked out what he said and I agree:

Look at this quote:

Chapter: 347 (DBZ 153), P3.2-3
Piccolo: “It seems that in the original history, we were supposed to be wiped out by you two androids…But it looks like the future has changed somehow….Was it that you weren’t was as strong as we thought?...Or have we grown too strong?...

Now Piccolo knows that the androids were supposed to be stronger than Trunks from 3 years ago. If Piccolo was weaker than Trunks, then the answer would in no way be hard to answer: They weren't as strong, as they thought.

However he didn't say that, he actually questions, if it's one or the other and as stated he wouldn't need to question it, if he was a) way weaker than Trunks(since the answer would be the first option) or b) way stronger than Trunks(since the answer would be the second option), so from this we know that Piccolo is significantly stronger than the SSJ Trunks he felt from 3 years before, but not to an extent that he thought he's so much stronger than Trunks, that he probably also surpasses the androids as well.
Or at the very least it's a heavy implication that he is.

This would in turn make Dr. Gero & #19 slightly stronger than Trunks, since Piccolo feels the need to question, if the androids weren't as strong as they thought, since if Gero & #19 were weaker than SSJ Trunks then it wouldn't be hard to answer.

http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... =8&t=16062

[p123]

That ish effed up my whole world. I've always been a major fanboy of Freeza and always held him over 19/20 post absorbtion. Now with that logic, 19/20 Pre > Freeza, kind of hurts me, but hey, it is what it is... Freeza is simply nothng as much as it pains me to say... Such a shame..

[dbgtFO]

That ish effed up my whole world. I've always been a major fanboy of Freeza and always held him over 19/20 post absorbtion. Now with that logic, 19/20 Pre > Freeza, kind of hurts me, but hey, it is what it is... Freeza is simply nothng as much as it pains me to say... Such a shame..

It is what it is. Dragonball follows a progressive nature, so the next villain is, unless stated otherwise, stronger than the one that came before.

[Kaboom]

The nice thing about that though, is that it's ambiguous. Remember, they can't sense the Androids' power. They can only guess about it based on their performance against themselves. So the heroes would have a rough idea of how strong they have become, but still be unsure about their Android opponents.

Remember, the one big disadvantage of natural Ki sensing over Scouters is that it's not as precise. One wouldn't say, "I'm about 75% stronger than Fighter A, but only 65% stronger than Fighter B." No, they'd say, "I'm much, much stronger than both Fighter A and Fighter B."


Hence, Piccolo's line is still applicable whether or not #19 and #20 are stronger than Freeza. If he's really become stronger than what he sensed from SSj Trunks three years ago (which isn't necessarily the case either, but I won't go in to that), then Freeza, Androids... it's all the same.

[p123]

No Piccolo is not sure if the Androids are way stronger than SSJ Trunks. Piccolo is expecting two androids who make SSJ Trunks crap himself. Piccolo after seeing them in action, still isn't sure whether they were weaker than what Trunks implied, or whether the Z Senshi got too strong...

If 19/20 were weaker than Freeza, Piccolo would have his answer...