Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
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beast mode
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by beast mode » Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:13 pm
hleV wrote:beast mode wrote:Since Trunks is stronger than Future No. 17 and 18 individually at the time of his first visit
You mean strong enough to fight back?
IIRC he tells Goku that he can't defeat Future 17 & 18 because they fight as a pair.
Senzu_Bean wrote:beast mode wrote:Since Trunks is stronger than Future No. 17 and 18 individually at the time of his first visit
What?! Trunks was surprised that Vegeta could fight even with #18 prior to acknowledge she was even stronger than the #18 she know. He can't do more than fight back, which even Goku did against Freeza. He is hopeless agaisnt them!
Trunks was suprised that Vegeta could fight back because his father was killed easily in his timeline.
18
> Vegeta > Future Trunks > Future 18 > Future Gohan and Future Vegeta
edit: I totally think it's possible that Future Trunks is twice as strong as Future Gohan. It could be caused by the Saiyan near-death boost after fighting 17 & 18 when he was on par with Gohan.
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Senzu_Bean
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by Senzu_Bean » Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:16 pm
beast mode wrote:IIRC he tells Goku that he can't defeat Future 17 & 18 because they fight as a pair.
Read again. He specifically says he is hopeless against one on one.
beast mode wrote:Trunks was surprised that Vegeta could fight back because his father was killed easily in his timeline.
That too but he was also surprised someone can actually fight even with the cyborgs. Trunks isn't stronger than the cyborgs of his timeline.
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beast mode
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by beast mode » Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:35 pm
His sword should be able to cut Future 18 but it couldn't cut Goku... So that means Goku > Future 18 and I think Tenshinhan refers to Trunks as being slightly stronger than Goku.
I found this online (I assume that if it was one-on-one, the battle would have been in Trunks' favor, or at least it's a perfectly acceptable interpretation of his explanation.):
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Senzu_Bean
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by Senzu_Bean » Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:39 pm
Gosh...
Chapter: 335 (DBZ 141), P3.3-4
Goku: “For you, a Super Saiyan who instantly defeated Freeza and co., to call them monsters is really something…
Trunks “Yes…I’ve stood against them, but unfortunately…In any case, I’m up against two of them…Even fighting one-on-one, I could barely manage to escape…”
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Super Saiyan Turlast x4
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by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:42 pm
I don't think Trunks was strong enough to beat Future #18 in any capacity. He could put up a fight against the Androids, but that's as far as it goes.
And I don't recall Tien ever stating Trunks was stronger than Goku.
Edit: The above quote makes it even clearer.
"First I whip it out! Then I thrust it! With great force! Every angle...! It penetrates! Until...! With great strength...! I... ram it in! In the end... We are all satisfied... And you are set free...!" ~Dante~
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beast mode
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by beast mode » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:06 pm
I thinking of this:
Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P8.3-4
Tenshinhan: “Th-this is the man who took down Freeza…And he was helpless before these androids…I’ll be frank…! No matter how strong Goku may be, he shouldn’t be that different from Trunks or Vegeta…He definitely can’t win…! Not even Goku…”
This is correct: 17 > 18 > Vegeta > Goku > Trunks' Sword > Future 17 > Future 18 > Future Trunks > Future Gohan > Mecha-Freeza > Future Vegeta
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Senzu_Bean
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by Senzu_Bean » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:08 pm
You do realize Trunks' sword isn't any more powerful than Trunks is?
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Super Saiyan Turlast x4
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by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:16 pm
beast mode wrote:I thinking of this:
Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P8.3-4
Tenshinhan: “Th-this is the man who took down Freeza…And he was helpless before these androids…I’ll be frank…! No matter how strong Goku may be, he shouldn’t be that different from Trunks or Vegeta…He definitely can’t win…! Not even Goku…”
This is correct: 17 > 18 > Vegeta > Goku > Trunks' Sword > Future 17 > Future 18 > Future Trunks > Future Gohan > Mecha-Freeza > Future Vegeta
Oh, that quote.
I think Trunks's sword is an extension of himself. If he's weak, the sword will be rendered useless like it was against #18.
"First I whip it out! Then I thrust it! With great force! Every angle...! It penetrates! Until...! With great strength...! I... ram it in! In the end... We are all satisfied... And you are set free...!" ~Dante~
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beast mode
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by beast mode » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:21 pm
Then just replace 'Trunks' Sword' with 'Trunks using his sword.'
But I think it is separate from his own power as King Cold suggests that weapons have different BPs than the users. If the sword got more useful with training, you'd think he'd keep using it after his sessions in the RoSaT.
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by Senzu_Bean » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:23 pm
Cold was proven wrong. That is why he was owned by Trunks. Trunks was the one stronger, not the sword.
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Super Saiyan Turlast x4
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by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:25 pm
Wasn't the sword shattered? I think it was pretty useless to use by that point. Not sure how bad it was messed up, but still.
"First I whip it out! Then I thrust it! With great force! Every angle...! It penetrates! Until...! With great strength...! I... ram it in! In the end... We are all satisfied... And you are set free...!" ~Dante~
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jackjack
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by jackjack » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:03 pm
Kaboom wrote:There's a difference between just outright ignoring things that aren't contradicted because you don't like them, and being skeptical of things that actually are debatable.
Sounds like what you're doing, honestly, because future<present isn't contradicted.
Kaboom wrote:"The future Androids are somehow weaker" really does have things going against it.
Why do you still keep saying this? Just about every single point you've raised on Trunks being misinformed has been misguided. They don't really suggest what you think they do.
Kaboom wrote:If people are allowed to doubt other things that don't make much sense like Nappa being at 4000, then I'm certainly allowed to doubt this, thank you.
No reason to doubt Trunks' words.
