Fights with questionable victors

[Piccolo Daimao]

I will forever stand by the interpretation that Piccolo backed down out of respect for Supreme Kai's title.

Despite this?

Chapter: 439 (DBZ 245), P12.3-4
Goku: “That much, Piccolo?...”
Piccolo: “Yeah…Our dimensions…are too different…”
Kuririn: “Yo-you’re kidding, right? Stop joking around! I-I’ve got to fight him next”
Note: Piccolo’s line is a pretty standard way of saying that someone is stronger than you. You can find a lot of instances of people being described as in “a different dimension” throughout these quotes, like Tenshinhan talking about Super Saiyan Goku, or the narrator describing final form Freeza. In Viz the line is made vaguer (“He is a different order of being”), which makes it sound like Piccolo could just be talking about how Kaioshin is a super-god, rather than about his strength per-say.

[Rocketman]

Yes. 'Dimensions too different' refers to the dimension of height, clearly.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

If that was the meaning, then Piccolo would have no reason to fear someone so small.

Unless he was thinking of the story of David and Goliath during that stare down

[rereboy]

I think it was a mix of the two.

Kaioshin is as strong or stronger than Piccolo (stronger than the sayans at their base form, weaker than their FPSSJs, like Piccolo is).

Piccolo sensed that he was strong at the same time that he sensed that he was some kind of higher god. So he backed down.

[Godo]

The Super Saiya-jin tranformation is unnatural, so it wears down the user. And it's power is unachievable to 99,99% of the Universe's population. That's why it's on a different dimension according to Tenshinhan. And he knows that he is one of the 99,99% of organisms in the Universe unable to reach that power.

Kaioshin is stated to have a specific ki (Godly ki that differs from the one of the Saiya-jin mortals, explained by Babidi to not work with Buu's egg), and is actually pretty strong. That would put the sensation of his power as of another dimension. Piccolo even sensed that Kaioshin was one of the higher Kaios by feeling his ki. If power alone made him to believe that someone was a deity, then surely he would have worshipped SSJ2 Gohan as a God after the Cell games. Yet he didn't.

And that's why that line is stupid. He saw a fighter of great power. He sensed he was a deity. He decided that it was unfit for a mortal to fight a deity (out of respect). And he himself had great power too, so strength itself isn't a factor that strongly ruled in. We know that Piccolo has fought opponents much stronger than himself before, not backing down because of him being weaker.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I actually agree with you now. While I do think that that line's referring to Kaioshin's power,

Chapter: 439 (DBZ 245), P12.3-4
Goku: “That much, Piccolo?...”
Piccolo: “Yeah…Our dimensions…are too different…”
Kuririn: “Yo-you’re kidding, right? Stop joking around! I-I’ve got to fight him next”
Note: Piccolo’s line is a pretty standard way of saying that someone is stronger than you. You can find a lot of instances of people being described as in “a different dimension” throughout these quotes, like Tenshinhan talking about Super Saiyan Goku, or the narrator describing final form Freeza. In Viz the line is made vaguer (“He is a different order of being”), which makes it sound like Piccolo could just be talking about how Kaioshin is a super-god, rather than about his strength per-say.

it's true that it doesn't make sense for Kaioshin to reveal that he can read Piccolo's mind, and then for Piccolo to be surprised and forfeit, and then remark to Goku that he was just too powerful for him. Perhaps Piccolo was just copping out because he didn't want to tell Goku the real reason he forfeited: he'd thought that Kaioshin was the Dai-Kaio from his mind-reading, because he forfeits right after Kaioshin responds to what he's thinking (which, even that, doesn't make sense, since non-god martial artists like Kame-sennin and Goku can read minds too; it's not just a god thing).

[CatouttaHell]

Piccolo states their dimensions are too different and this is never contradicted. Nobody ever goes "ah, so Piccolo was lying and it turns out Kaioshin-sama isn't that strong!" Piccolo is one of the best characters in the series IMO and Kaioshin-sama is an annoying, overrated, incompetent, useless piece of crap IMO but all bias aside I really doubt Piccolo is stronger.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Piccolo states their dimensions are too different and this is never contradicted. Nobody ever goes "ah, so Piccolo was lying and it turns out Kaioshin-sama isn't that strong!" Piccolo is one of the best characters in the series IMO and Kaioshin-sama is an annoying, overrated, incompetent, useless piece of crap IMO but all bias aside I really doubt Piccolo is stronger.

I think it's just the reasoning behind Piccolo. Piccolo backs down cold turkey after Kaioshin replies to what he's thinking, from that somehow deduces that he's the Dai Kaio, but then tells Goku that their dimensions are too different. And if it was about Kaioshin's power, that makes it completely out of character for Piccolo to forfeit a match against someone just because of their power. A warrior does not back down like a coward just because an opponent's stronger than him.

[Rocketman]

Especially since Piccolo knew he has gonna fight Goku, Gohan and/or Vegeta in this tournament...

[Piccolo Daimao]

Especially since Piccolo knew he has gonna fight Goku, Gohan and/or Vegeta in this tournament...

Well, they'd all agreed beforehand to not go Super Saiyan, meaning Piccolo could defeat all of them in base form. Although Vegeta may've not kept his promise. But that's beside the point, since the reasoning behind his decision was just strange.

[Michsi]

This might be nit-picking but I think they agreed to keep from turning SSJ on their way to the tournament. Piccolo had no way of knowing about their decision.

[Piccolo Daimao]

This might be nit-picking but I think they agreed to keep from turning SSJ on their way to the tournament. Piccolo had no way of knowing about their decision.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. So Rocketman's point still stands. Piccolo's decision was strange.

[CatouttaHell]

I think it's just the reasoning behind Piccolo. Piccolo backs down cold turkey after Kaioshin replies to what he's thinking, from that somehow deduces that he's the Dai Kaio, but then tells Goku that their dimensions are too different. And if it was about Kaioshin's power, that makes it completely out of character for Piccolo to forfeit a match against someone just because of their power. A warrior does not back down like a coward just because an opponent's stronger than him.

Everybody was out of character in the Boo Arc. Piccolo, Son Goku and Vegeta especially. Just look at some of their facial expressions, both in the Anime and the manga. Either way I do think that he forfeited because of Kaioshin-sama's rank, I think the "our dimensions are too different" thing is true as well. It was never actually contradicted at all and he may have just brought that up because it was true and it covered up the real truth.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Everybody was out of character in the Boo Arc. Piccolo, Son Goku and Vegeta especially. Just look at some of their facial expressions, both in the Anime and the manga. Either way I do think that he forfeited because of Kaioshin-sama's rank, I think the "our dimensions are too different" thing is true as well. It was never actually contradicted at all and he may have just brought that up because it was true and it covered up the real truth.

I don't see what facial expressions have to do with being out of character, but whatever. But besides being out of character, I was talking about the reasoning behind his decision. "Shin" can read my mind, therefore he may be the Dai-Kaio? Even though mind-reading isn't a god-exclusive ability? Even if Piccolo doesn't know that, we, the readers of the story, do, and from a storyline perspective, we know that mind-reading isn't only an ability gods can have. Heck, Piccolo himself read God's mind back at the 23rd TB and telepathically communicated with God in the Cell arc, and that was before he merged with God.

And, OK, say, he's not lying. Why cover it up? What does he have to hide? Why mention his power when that's not even the reason he forfeited? It's just weird.

[CatouttaHell]

I don't see what facial expressions have to do with being out of character, but whatever. But besides being out of character, I was talking about the reasoning behind his decision. "Shin" can read my mind, therefore he may be the Dai-Kaio? Even though mind-reading isn't a god-exclusive ability? Even if Piccolo doesn't know that, we, the readers of the story, do, and from a storyline perspective, we know that mind-reading isn't only an ability gods can have. Heck, Piccolo himself read God's mind back at the 23rd TB and telepathically communicated with God in the Cell arc, and that was before he merged with God.

And, OK, say, he's not lying. Why cover it up? What does he have to hide? Why mention his power when that's not even the reason he forfeited? It's just weird.

Piccolo didn't know for sure that he was Dai-Kaio-sama and he figured that if he showed up undercover and didn't tell anyone who he really was that he must be keeping it a secret for a reason and didn't want to defy the guy who was possibly the god of gods by telling everyone who he is. Karin-sama can read minds too and IIRC Muten Roshi read Namu's mind several times so you're right that it's not limited to gods.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I don't see what facial expressions have to do with being out of character, but whatever. But besides being out of character, I was talking about the reasoning behind his decision. "Shin" can read my mind, therefore he may be the Dai-Kaio? Even though mind-reading isn't a god-exclusive ability? Even if Piccolo doesn't know that, we, the readers of the story, do, and from a storyline perspective, we know that mind-reading isn't only an ability gods can have. Heck, Piccolo himself read God's mind back at the 23rd TB and telepathically communicated with God in the Cell arc, and that was before he merged with God.

And, OK, say, he's not lying. Why cover it up? What does he have to hide? Why mention his power when that's not even the reason he forfeited? It's just weird.

Piccolo didn't know for sure that he was Dai-Kaio-sama and he figured that if he showed up undercover and didn't tell anyone who he really was that he must be keeping it a secret for a reason and didn't want to defy the guy who was possibly the god of gods by telling everyone who he is. Karin-sama can read minds too and IIRC Muten Roshi read Namu's mind several times so you're right that it's not limited to gods.

That's why I said "may". I guess you're right in saying he didn't want to defy who may be the Dai-Kaio undercover by telling people who he was.

But still, giving up because someone read your mind and then deducing from that that they're the Dai-Kaio just seems a little strange to me, as if mind-reading was so surprising by this point. But maybe I shouldn't look too much into this.

[Godo]

I would also like to add Piccolo's reaction when Goku asked if Piccolo wanted him to teach "Shin" a lesson. His reason for objecting (even though we see that Kaioshin is weaker than Cell and Piccolo knows that at least Goku could take care of him by this point) was clearly due to Kaioshin being a high deity.

It seems like by merging with Kami, Piccolo got some of the "wrinkles" too, even though he asked not to get them.

[Michsi]

I would also like to add Piccolo's reaction when Goku asked if Piccolo wanted him to teach "Shin" a lesson. His reason for objecting (even though we see that Kaioshin is weaker than Cell and Piccolo knows that at least Goku could take care of him by this point) was clearly due to Kaioshin being a high deity.

It seems like by merging with Kami, Piccolo got some of the "wrinkles" too, even though he asked not to get them.

Especially when you compare to how Piccolo used to treat King Kai.

This whole deal with the Kaioshin and Piccolo wouldn't have bothered me as much if Kaioshin's poor performance throughout the arc stayed as fandome realization but his uselesness is straight up mentioned and made fun of in three different scenes. Once by shifty eyed Goku followed by Kaioshin's own admission, next by the old Kaioshin to which he looks embarassed and last when he fuses with Kibito and looks so enthusiastic about finally being able to do something only to get put in his place by the old Kaioshin right after.
This is the guy Piccolo is supposed to be inferior to. It becomes worse when you realize that the Kaioshin's build up was to be used a comparission factor for the saiyans.
Also that shit eating grin he has in the beginning....

Still, as consolation, even if they don't amount to much in the end, Piccolo efforts are far more memorable and impressive than anything the Kaioshin did.

[Kirby456]

Piccolo vs Android 17,MSSJ Vegeta vs Cell Junior,Android 16 vs Imperfect Cell,Frieza 2nd form vs Piccolo,Vegeta vs 1st form Frieza

Piccolo vs Android 17 SSJ Vegeta vs Cell Junior, Android 16 vs Imperfect Cell, Frieza 2. vorm vs Piccolo, Vegeta vs 1. kujul Frieza

[SylentEcho]

Raditz should have made short work of Goku and Piccolo, but he just wanted to mock them. He would have easily won if Piccolo didn't have the chance to charge his Makankosappo.