The eastern city.

[Kirby456]

most likely it was wished back to life intresting question though

kõige tõenäolisemalt oli see soovis tagasi elule huvitav küsimus

[Kirby456]

Non-fighting characters who are killed during the course of the series and never revived, as far as we know:

1. All of the Red Ribbon Army's victims except Bora (includes the antique shop owner in the anime, and Tao Pai Pai's tailor)
2. People Piccolo killed when he blew up the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai island (if you subscribe to the theory that it wasn't totally evacuated)
3. Farmer with shotgun
4. Nappa's victims on Earth (proven by the fact that Yamcha isn't revived by Shen-Long)
5. The Namekian villagers Vegeta killed
6. In the anime, we see a few implied deaths as a result of Garlic Jr.'s Aqua Mist.
7. All of Android 19 and 20's victims
8. The truck driver Vegeta kills (in the anime, several other drivers become casualties of Vegeta and 18 fighting on a highway, if I remember correctly)
9. The family Babidi kills near his spaceship (assuming this took place before the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai)
10. In the anime, Buu destroys several other planets before arriving in the Kaioshin realm to fight Goku and Vegeta. The final wishes to Porunga would have revived these people, but without their planets. Yikes.
11. All the aliens Baby absorbs energy from on his way to Earth

well every series / tv show has it's faults,but i agree with you,also why do they call Hercule the H Word Rofl?

hästi iga seeria / tv show on oma vead, aga ma nõustun teiega,Samuti miks nad kutsuvad Hercule H Word Roll?

[Dorexx]

Sorry if I'm not supposed to re-open a discussion that ended a few weeks ago, but anyway...

After re-reading some stuff on this topic, two small questions came to mind.

We concluded that the Eastern City people were probably not revived after the wish to revive the victims of Freeza and his minions, because Yamcha (and Tenshinhan for that matter) wasn't either. However, Yamcha was killed by a Saibaiman and Ten killed himself.

Does a Saibaiman, who was born a few minutes before he died, count as a Freeza minion?


Android 17, who is a victim of Cell, was revived by the wish to revive Cell's victims. When Cell spits out 18, she is alive.
Did 17 die when Cell absorbed him or when Cell exploded? If he died when Cell absorbed him, why didn't 18? If he died when Cell exploded, why didn't he appear in the Afterlife where Kaio's planet was, after the wish?

Remember the little plot-hole about Android 17 giving his energy for Goku's Genkidama, where he said that he didn't hear his voice for a long time, even though they never met?
Maybe this is how he met him, and then Goku teleported him back to Earth.

[rereboy]

Remember the little plot-hole about Android 17 giving his energy for Goku's Genkidama, where he said that he didn't hear his voice for a long time, even though they never met?
Maybe this is how he met him, and then Goku teleported him back to Earth.

We know that this plot hole existed because Toriyama originally intended to be Lunch instead of #17 to say that line.

Unfortunately, Toriyama was afraid that nobody remembered Lunch so he changed it to #17, without changing the line.

Its one of those things that cannot be explained in universe.

[SuperForteX]

Its one of those things that cannot be explained in universe.

I reject this notion. Even if Akira Toriyama said that, you can still come up with explanations. Was No. 17 not inside Cell during their fights? Couldn't he possibly have some kind of latent memory of that experience? Isn't it possible he saw Gero Spy-Cam footage? Can't you at least consider the possibility that he also heard Goku talking while Babidi was broadcasting Goku's and his own voices to the world?

There's so many in-universe possibilities. Just because the author revealed why it was a mistake, doesn't mean that we still can't reason against it being a plot hole. Call it fanboy logic if you will...

[rereboy]

Call it fanboy logic if you will...

Not at all.

Its just that its one of those rare cases where we know for sure what happened because the author actually stated the reason for it. We aren't assuming, we know.

And, because of that, an in universe answer, although possible, will always feel sort of a poor solution, since he know the real answer.

However, before I knew this, I thought that perhaps Dr. Gero made #17 watch extensive footage of Goku (with audio) while he was working on #17, so that #17 knew his enemy better.

[SuperForteX]

So in the terms of the Dragon Ball universe, how would you explain it? You'd have to accept that Akira Toriyama is actually a character in the story, writing the story. Everything has to have an in-universe explanation.

[rereboy]

I've already answered to that question in my last paragraph...

As I said, I can explain it like that, but it will always feel like a poor "solution" given that it should be Lunch saying and it would make much more sense. The entire situation fits Lunch much, much better than it fits #17. It always feels like a plothole to me because of that.

[Fox666]

8. The truck driver Vegeta kills (in the anime, several other drivers become casualties of Vegeta and 18 fighting on a highway, if I remember correctly)

Hahahaha, I forget that

They cared so much that Vegeta killed innocent people in the Boo saga, but they simply ignore the poor yelling truck driver?

[SuperForteX]

8. The truck driver Vegeta kills (in the anime, several other drivers become casualties of Vegeta and 18 fighting on a highway, if I remember correctly)

Hahahaha, I forget that

They cared so much that Vegeta killed innocent people in the Boo saga, but they simply ignore the poor yelling truck driver?

When the Galactic Tribunal catches up with Vegeta later after Buu's defeat, the family of the truck driver actually testifies against him.

[Piccolo Daimao]

After re-reading some stuff on this topic, two small questions came to mind.

We concluded that the Eastern City people were probably not revived after the wish to revive the victims of Freeza and his minions, because Yamcha (and Tenshinhan for that matter) wasn't either. However, Yamcha was killed by a Saibaiman and Ten killed himself.

Does a Saibaiman, who was born a few minutes before he died, count as a Freeza minion?

Android 17, who is a victim of Cell, was revived by the wish to revive Cell's victims. When Cell spits out 18, she is alive.
Did 17 die when Cell absorbed him or when Cell exploded? If he died when Cell absorbed him, why didn't 18? If he died when Cell exploded, why didn't he appear in the Afterlife where Kaio's planet was, after the wish?

Remember the little plot-hole about Android 17 giving his energy for Goku's Genkidama, where he said that he didn't hear his voice for a long time, even though they never met?
Maybe this is how he met him, and then Goku teleported him back to Earth.

Well, I guess you could say, as an in-universe explanation, that Yamcha, Tenshinhan and Chaozu died as a result of Nappa, and in that way, they were treated as being killed by him. Like how Roshi was revived in the wish to restore all those who were killed by Piccolo Daimao, even though Roshi killed himself using the Mafuuba. I guess (moreso as an out-universe, story standpoint explanation than anything) they were just all grouped together in the wish, even though they may've not been directly killed.

And after Kuririn wishes to remove #17 and #18's bombs, Yamcha asks him, "Why'd you say #17? Isn't he dead?" To which Piccolo replies, "Is he? The wish was to revive all those killed by Cell. That would count #17."

So I guess #17 was killed by Cell via his self-destruction. He wouldn't have died when Cell absorbed him, as #18 was absorbed and she was still alive, as we saw when he spat her out and she later turned out to be fine. Cell's absorption of the Androids was different to the Earthlings, in that he absorbed them because they fitted like a puzzle and evolved his entire body ("Power! Speed! Technique! Brains! Mental strength! I will be perfect in every way! That’s what the computer told me!!"), while he absorbed the Earthlings just to gain more power, which is why they were "killed".

And #17 may've appeared in the afterlife where Kaio's planet was, after the wish. But he wouldn't have a body (since he's not a good guy) and he would've just been in the afterlife as a soul: a fluffy little cloud. That, and the next panel we see after Cell's self-destruction on Kaio's planet is Goku, Kaio and Bubbles flying over the Serpent Road (perhaps for relocation to Heaven, which is where we see Goku training in the Boo arc). So perhaps #17 was still where Kaio's planet was, and didn't want to go with Goku and the others (because, you know, he was supposed to kill Goku and they're not his friends). Or he did follow them, but he was hiding from them or something (like #18 was at God's Palace - or just hiding far away; the afterlife's a vast place, a little cloud may be hard to notice, so he could be just floating some way away from them listening in). Or maybe the fact that he was killed inside someone's body via self-destruction fucked up with the whole thing, and he wasn't in existence at all.

And the whole "I haven't heard your voice in a long time" was because Lunch was meant to be there instead of #17. Your in-universe explanation could work. Another in-universe explanation could be that, after he was revived, he returned to Earth, flew up to God's Palace with super-speed and heard Goku's goodbye speech. Yeah, that's a stretch, but whatever. Just another option.

[Piccolo Daimao]

After re-reading some stuff on this topic, two small questions came to mind.

We concluded that the Eastern City people were probably not revived after the wish to revive the victims of Freeza and his minions, because Yamcha (and Tenshinhan for that matter) wasn't either. However, Yamcha was killed by a Saibaiman and Ten killed himself.

Does a Saibaiman, who was born a few minutes before he died, count as a Freeza minion?

Android 17, who is a victim of Cell, was revived by the wish to revive Cell's victims. When Cell spits out 18, she is alive.
Did 17 die when Cell absorbed him or when Cell exploded? If he died when Cell absorbed him, why didn't 18? If he died when Cell exploded, why didn't he appear in the Afterlife where Kaio's planet was, after the wish?

Remember the little plot-hole about Android 17 giving his energy for Goku's Genkidama, where he said that he didn't hear his voice for a long time, even though they never met?
Maybe this is how he met him, and then Goku teleported him back to Earth.

Well, I guess you could say, as an in-universe explanation, that Yamcha, Tenshinhan and Chaozu died as a result of Nappa, and in that way, they were treated as being killed by him. Like how Roshi was revived in the wish to restore all those who were killed by Piccolo Daimao, even though Roshi killed himself using the Mafuuba. I guess (moreso as an out-universe, story standpoint explanation than anything) they were just all grouped together in the wish, even though they may've not been directly killed.

And after Kuririn wishes to remove #17 and #18's bombs, Yamcha asks him, "Why'd you say #17? Isn't he dead?" To which Piccolo replies, "Is he? The wish was to revive all those killed by Cell. That would count #17."

So I guess #17 was killed by Cell via his self-destruction. He wouldn't have died when Cell absorbed him, as #18 was absorbed and she was still alive, as we saw when he spat her out and she later turned out to be fine. Cell's absorption of the Androids was different to the Earthlings, in that he absorbed them because they fitted like a puzzle and evolved his entire body ("Power! Speed! Technique! Brains! Mental strength! I will be perfect in every way! That’s what the computer told me!!"), while he absorbed the Earthlings just to gain more power, which is why they were "killed".

And #17 may've appeared in the afterlife where Kaio's planet was, after the wish. But he wouldn't have a body (since he's not a good guy) and he would've just been in the afterlife as a soul: a fluffy little cloud. That, and the next panel we see after Cell's self-destruction on Kaio's planet is Goku, Kaio and Bubbles flying over the Serpent Road (perhaps for relocation to Heaven, which is where we see Goku training in the Boo arc). So perhaps #17 was still where Kaio's planet was, and didn't want to go with Goku and the others (because, you know, he was supposed to kill Goku and they're not his friends). Or he did follow them, but he was hiding from them or something (like #18 was at God's Palace - or just hiding far away; the afterlife's a vast place, a little cloud may be hard to notice, so he could be just floating some way away from them listening in). Or maybe the fact that he was killed inside someone's body via self-destruction fucked up with the whole thing, and he wasn't in existence at all.

And the whole "I haven't heard your voice in a long time" was because Lunch was meant to be there instead of #17. Your in-universe explanation could work. Another in-universe explanation could be that, after he was revived, he returned to Earth, flew up to God's Palace with super-speed and heard Goku's goodbye speech. Yeah, that's a stretch, but whatever. Just another option.