What makes the Buu saga so poorly written?...

[Ahiru77]

Pretty much everything SSJmole said plus what kind character Gohan turned out to be. Too much like Goku.


When you watch the Buu saga, you appreciate the former sagas even more.

[rereboy]

And Goku does, with his near constant game of Russian Roulette with people's lives?

Yes. Maybe he is not a traditional hero, but the way he faces things, his enemies and danger, makes him much more suited for the main role.

[Michsi]

I was really disappointed when Goku asked Piccolo if he was entering the last tournament and Piccolo said, "I can't compete with you guys anymore."

But that's a Toei addition, right? It doesn't happen in the manga, if I remember correctly. Granted it probably wasn't far from the truth but the manga doesn't put Piccolo in such an inferior spot in the end. In fact with him and Vegeta being shown as the only ones who understood Goku's true intentions, it gave me the impression that these three were the only real warriors left of the group. (personally, I'd like to think he could wipe the floor with Trunks and Goten, base and ssj form)The anime sorta mitigates this. It even goes so far as change the scene where we see Piccolo already knowing who Uub is into having him find out because of his sensitive hearing ,along with Dende, and be completely taken aback by this.
The anime also made him look a little too pathetic during the Gotenks vs. Buu fight for my liking.

[sangofe]

The Buu saga was never written? Unless you consider the dialogue in the manga as "the written" part... Personally, if you talk about content, the Buu saga was the best ever because all the original ideas and interesting characters like Gotens, and exciting fights put together in an impressive way.

[Bussani]

Yes but It was built up and stole focus for it to be ...... nothing. It was pointless for sake of filling the story.

If SSJ3 had been introduced, built up for it to be awesome, and then had saved the day...that would be completely predictable and boring.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

That's what I like so much about the Boo arc. All of the lame tropes that had been introduced from the Piccolo arc onward were borderline parodied. SSJ2 couldn't do it, SSJ3 couldn't do it, releasing potential couldn't do it, fusion couldn't do it, etc. In the end, the Boo arc was Toriyama having a laugh instead of trying to bog everything down with melodrama and a forced inheritance, like in the android arc. I think Dragon Ball's final installment illustrated perfectly well that new-fangled transformations weren't supposed to mean much.

Best way to interpret it, really. If Super Saiyan 3 isn't self-parody, nothing is.

First time through the Buu arc is a ride, it's just the debate of whether the constant changing of fighters in the midst of all sort of great end-game feelings ("I actually have people I love, and I will die for them", "I've 40 something and dead, someone else has to save the world", "I'm maxed out and will do my dad proud from the start this time") makes it that much more dramatic while Buu makes his next screencap-worthy expression, or weakens it as a finale.

[laserkid]

I may have some issues with the story of the arc when it comes to tossing Gohan out as a viable lead hero to pass it back to the old hero, Goku - BUT I would never say the story is bad.

It's my second favorite Z arc (behind Cell), and is by far the most classic feeling of the Z era stories. For me, Dragon Ball was at its best during the strech between the 22nd and 23rd Tenka-ichi Budokais. The Saiyan arc is okay, the Freeza arc bores me to tears, and the Cell Saga while completely unlike where the story is at its best for me, is at least a fun ride. But the Buu arc? The madcap insanity is just so much fun, and like the part of the story I adored most, I really cannot hate on its story.

[Piccolo Daimao]

That's what I like so much about the Boo arc. All of the lame tropes that had been introduced from the Piccolo arc onward were borderline parodied. SSJ2 couldn't do it, SSJ3 couldn't do it, releasing potential couldn't do it, fusion couldn't do it, etc. In the end, the Boo arc was Toriyama having a laugh instead of trying to bog everything down with melodrama and a forced inheritance, like in the android arc. I think Dragon Ball's final installment illustrated perfectly well that new-fangled transformations weren't supposed to mean much.

See, the thing is, I don't think that was Toriyama's intention. While I'm not denying that Toriyama probably had fun with the Boo arc, I do think that he was more tired than when he was drawing the previous arcs. I mean, he'd already been pushed multiple times to carry on the story, and many people say that the art in the Boo arc was visibly worse than the art in previous arcs. The Boo arc's plot is just ridiculously haphazard, and while you could say "that's Toriyama's style", there's a point where writing can get so silly that it's incoherent and there are so many shitty plot twists that the story simply falls about. No other arc's writing even comes close to being as poor as the Boo arc. The pre-Z DB arcs did perfectly well maintaining the balance between silly fun and reasonably good writing.

Adding onto my opinion that I don't think it was Toriyama's intention to have the Boo arc be one big parody, I don't think it's a good idea to have the final arc of the series just recycle all the dead-horse tropes in an even bigger number than before, and just pass it off like that. I liked how the final battle wasn't predictable and ditched the trope of "New transformation saves the day", and had the underdogs (one of them quite literally a dog) go into a battle with a weaker version of the main villain (no "Super Boo vs. Kid Boo" arguments, please; that's not the point), with the Earthlings themselves saving the univese. But I didn't like how virtually everyone had to turn into idiots for that complicated, unneeded plan to happen. Goku and Vegeta get a second opportunity to defeat the unpredictable regenerating mofo who just blew up with a planet without a second thought, but throw it away due to Saiyan pride bullshit and "Oh, he's on his own now, we can take him."

But when, unsurprisingly, they can't take him and Goku's utterly pointless Super Saiyan 3 fails, Goku ends up regretting the millionth mistake he's made this series (but, you know, funnily enough, he never learns from them because everything always turns out great in the end, unlike Vegeta, whose mistakes end up screwing everyone over and earns him a beating, and he learns from them because it actually goes belly-up for him). Fast-forward to the wish, and Vegeta doesn't bother bringing Gohan and Gotenks, two people who could certainly obliterate Boo, alone and together, but decides to use a technique that's never worked with the aid of the Satan-worshipping morons on Earth.

I'm a bit more lenient on the ending, and specifically Oob, now. I actually don't think that the ending was supposed to pass him off as the next hero; it was characterizing Goku's undying love for battle by taking this new opponent off to train so he can fight him. It was the Kanzenban ending, with Oob mirroring Goku on the Kinto'un, that tried to pass off Oob as the next hero, which I didn't like. I'm firmly set on the opinion that Piccolo's the best hero of Earth, and I'm not being biased. He's not a Saiyan, he's not an Earthling kid that's going to go off and have a normal life, he's someone that actually likes fighting that, and he's the strongest warrior behind the Saiyans.

That said, I don't hate the Boo arc. I like it better than the first arc and the Cell arc, and I still have a good deal of fun with it.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Adding onto my opinion that I don't think it was Toriyama's intention to have the Boo arc be one big parody, I don't think it's a good idea to have the final arc of the series just recycle all the dead-horse tropes in an even bigger number than before, and just pass it off like that.

As a FINALE it is silly, as I was debating prior.

But when, unsurprisingly, they can't take him and Goku's utterly pointless Super Saiyan 3 fails, Goku ends up regretting the millionth mistake he's made this series (but, you know, funnily enough, he never learns from them because everything always turns out great in the end, unlike Vegeta, whose mistakes end up screwing everyone over and earns him a beating, and he learns from them because it actually goes belly-up for him).

Come to think of it, that is pretty unfair.

I'm a bit more lenient on the ending, and specifically Oob, now. I actually don't think that the ending was supposed to pass him off as the next hero; it was characterizing Goku's undying love for battle by taking this new opponent off to train so he can fight him.

Outside of the Kanzenban, I really don't recall it being implied that Goku was training Uub for that.

Also, forgive me, but I realized I could edit a little something...

Fast-forward to the wish, and Vegeta ... decides to use a technique that's never worked with the aid of the Satan-worshipping morons on Earth.

Out of context riding off a successful pun for the win!

[MetaMoss]

I find the Boo arc enjoyable, but its not my favorite. The haphazard way Toriyama wrote it is what I think its greatest quality, making it unique from the rest. I do like to have hilarious "WTF!?" moments regularly, as they keep me sane and optimistic. If the Boo arc is self-parody, I wouldn't be surprised at all.

[What Up Namek!]

It started off good but the battle on supreme kai's planet was pretty lame and felt more bullshitty than any part of the series.

Refusing to refuse
Goku being unable to put Boo away
SSJ3 charge up failing
Gohan and Gotenks gimped
Birth of Oob.

[DarkGokuZ]

Well I love the Buu arc, I don't like it better than the others, but I still enjoy it.

The only thing I didn't like was Gohan becoming useless, first he is weak, then he loses to a demon, comes back much stronger because of magic, gets absorbed.

But yeah, I like it and I think it was written good.

[TheGreatness25]

I like the Boo saga, barring the fusions, which I can't stand but people seem to like. What makes it so "poorly written" is that it seems so all over the place. But in actuality I'm pretty sure that's how it was. I like the idea of everyone getting killed. I like the idea of new heroes getting a chance to shine. I like the idea of just when you think Boo is finished, something happens and it's a whole new playing field. And I like that the Earthlings finally contributed to their own lives.

[Cipher]

That's what I like so much about the Boo arc. All of the lame tropes that had been introduced from the Piccolo arc onward were borderline parodied. SSJ2 couldn't do it, SSJ3 couldn't do it, releasing potential couldn't do it, fusion couldn't do it, etc. In the end, the Boo arc was Toriyama having a laugh instead of trying to bog everything down with melodrama and a forced inheritance, like in the android arc. I think Dragon Ball's final installment illustrated perfectly well that new-fangled transformations weren't supposed to mean much.

I'm extremely gratified to see someone else here share this opinion. The Boo arc is a great reversal of so many of the series' expectations by that point. In the end, after every single deus-ex-machina has failed, we're left with no one but Goku and Vegeta to face down Boo. The two fighters who had lost to him just the day before. And they just have to deal with it.

Piccolo Daimao, authorial intent is irrelevant.

Anyway, I love the Boo arc. It's probably my favorite section of the entire Dragon Ball metaseries. It's just so insane. It's an incredibly dire plot executed in an incredibly silly way, and it gives you the impression that the shit has completely hit the fan. It's not a tightly woven action masterpiece, but I've always found Dragon Ball a little uncomfortable when it comes anywhere near that role. All I know is it hits both ends of the spectrum perfectly. No other arc can hit moments of tension and dread this successfully and still make me laugh. And while that would be an enormous fault in most contexts, it's just about right for this series.

[Rocketman]

we're left with no one but Goku and Vegeta to face down Boo. The two fighters who had lost to him just the day before. And they just have to deal with it.

No they don't. Even after the Potara is broken, there's still the fusion dance. And the fact that Goku could teleport to the check-in station at any time and grab Gohan and/or Gotenks.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I'm a bit more lenient on the ending, and specifically Oob, now. I actually don't think that the ending was supposed to pass him off as the next hero; it was characterizing Goku's undying love for battle by taking this new opponent off to train so he can fight him.

Outside of the Kanzenban, I really don't recall it being implied that Goku was training Uub for that.

That's why I mentioned that it was actually the Kanzenban ending that tried to pass off Oob as the next hero, rather than characterizing Goku's undying love for battle by tkaing off to train some random kid for the slums for a new challenge.

Fast-forward to the wish, and Vegeta ... decides to use a technique that's never worked with the aid of the Satan-worshipping morons on Earth.

Out of context riding off a successful pun for the win!

Yeah, I did that on purpose.

Piccolo Daimao, authorial intent is irrelevant.

I respectfully disagree. Toriyama wanted to finish up the series, but it had gone on for too long and he was just too arse-tired by then, so he ended up making the final arc one ridiculously haphazard and incoherent parody. It's not supposed to be a parody; it's supposed to be a story.

[DBZ Mick]

I thought the Cell/Jinzoningen arcs had more problems overall but the Boo saga just seem not as well thought out and rushed. The Cell saga, even with the editor problems, just seemed to come together.

[Kingdom Heartless]

When I called the saga rushed, I didn't really mean in terms of writing, I meant that the story all went very fast, with a lot of places feeling like they didn't have enough story-time spent on them.

I think the anime improved on a lot of areas for the Buu saga.

[DBZ Mick]

That's what I meant overall too and I agree I love the anime version of the Boo arc, the filler is really good too.

[Codarik]

Huh, the Buu saga was always my favorite, it wasn't until I joined this website did I see people complain about it. Now reading why people hate it is making me rethink my decision of the Buu arc being my favorite.