Where Do People Get the Impression That DB is for Adults?

[Cipher]

Minus that the majority of people who are DBZ fans now saw it on Toonami, where it was rated TV-PG I believe.

TV-Y7 (FV), actually. The "ultimate uncut" episodes were TV-PG, and possibly some of the movies as well.

But yeah, I'd say "all ages" hits it just about right.

What aired on TV was arguably more kid friendly than a decent chunk of Batman Beyond, the 4kids TMNT series, and plenty of shows that aired at 'roughly' the same time.

Also, this is certainly true. The series listed here were made with American broadcast standards in mind, so they're a bit more self-censored than Dragon Ball Z (i.e., they find ways to skirt around blood, death, etc (though both Beyond and TMNT got away with both on occasion)). But tonally, and in terms of issues dealt with, they're much darker than anything in Dragon Ball.

It's an interesting switch. Both Dragon Ball and these American cartoons are what I'd call "all ages." But the difference is, I'd say, that Dragon Ball is geared toward child entertainment with an all-ages sense of self-realism (i.e., lack of censorship), while these shows are self-censored to be appropriate for children while dealing with all-ages plots and themes. If that makes sense.

It's all the same thing in the end though. Each is made to be able to entertain children and cast some knowing nods in the direction of older fans as well.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Claiming a cartoon has to be humorous goes back to people trying to feel better about themselves because they are embarrassed.

To that I say... deal with it.

Well, I watch cartoons. I'm not embarrassed to say. I enjoy the hell out of Animaniacs and Sgt. Frog. They're fun, they're cartoons, I watch them. I will wear a sign around my neck that says "I Proudly Watch Cartoons".

But I don't think all animated medium should be referred to as a "Cartoon". Just because, something that is action or drama oriented just doesn't feel like it fits the word "Cartoon"...

You may feel that way, but in addition to "a humorous drawing in a newspaper etc." (which is the primary meaning, and presumably where you're coming from), the word cartoon is also defined as "an animated sequence of drawings on film that tells a story". No matter how tragic or dramatic an anime series may be, it's still a cartoon.

[thedarkuniter]

I kinda get the impression from most of the swearing and nudity. I do agree that Dragon Ball is not 100 percent adult but it does have adult elements in it, like most of the 30-90's cartoons.

[AgitoZ]

I kinda get the impression from most of the swearing and nudity. I do agree that Dragon Ball is not 100 percent adult but it does have adult elements in it, like most of the 30-90's cartoons.

It's got some more "mature" themes than the average kid's cartoon, but I wouldn't go that far. I wouldn't even count the ones you used, those two things certainly don't make it for adults. Hell, a lot of their usage is fairly juvenile. And it's not like other cartoons past those eras have had "mature" themes, others even more than DB.

It should also be noted that a lot of early cartoons in theaters were meant for adults.

[capnbarfy]

It's because, honestly, some people are not all that bright, and only view things in black & white. Despite taking in consideration that perhaps Japan might have a different set of moral and cultural values, they'll assume anything that would be considered inappropriate towards their own accustomed set of standards will be classified as 'adult'.

Usually, this only applies to the younger folks. If I ever see an adult go around saying "ZOMG! Liek DBZ is totally for Mature Audiences!!" I'll make sure to punch them in the face.

[.:PoetikaL:.]

The one example I can think of with this idea is Rocko's Modern Life. For one, it's a kid show that many of us raised in the 90's in the U.S. have watched at some point. The stuff that is used in the show, including adult themes and innuendo, is pretty adult, while still being able to make children enjoy the show and not have us realize what the undertones were.

I'll back away now...

[Saimaroimaru]

I kinda get the impression from most of the swearing and nudity. I do agree that Dragon Ball is not 100 percent adult but it does have adult elements in it, like most of the 30-90's cartoons.

It's got some more "mature" themes than the average kid's cartoon, but I wouldn't go that far. I wouldn't even count the ones you used, those two things certainly don't make it for adults. Hell, a lot of their usage is fairly juvenile. And it's not like other cartoons past those eras have had "mature" themes, others even more than DB.

It should also be noted that a lot of early cartoons in theaters were meant for adults.

True, the Warner Bros. Cartoons that are seen as kids shows now were actually aimed at adults. For example, their names were a jab at the scientific naming system that used and still uses Latin. So it was a joke that science(Biology to be specific) oriented people would get it but happened to be silly enough for others to enjoy the other stuff besides the names.

Honestly anime is just japanese cartoons. Its no more and no less than what people try to make it out to be. Its just that Japanese cartoons have more of a plot.

[Bussani]

Its just Japanese cartoons have more of a plot.

Yeah, Puni Puni Poemi has way more of a plot than, say, Batman: The Animated Series.

[MarcFBR]

Its just Japanese cartoons have more of a plot.

Yeah, Puni Puni Poemi has way more of a plot than, say, Batman: The Animated Series.

K-On totally has more of a plot than Transformers Prime also.

[TonyTheTiger]

Because the fact that it requires censorship during localisation (not talking about the one "by default" like Kai, but the one actually added by countries importing the show) clearly states that, by official criterias, it is unsuitable for kids.

I think the misconception here is that it "requires" censorship. Different studios and networks have different rules, sometimes not even consistent within itself. It's essentially self-censorship with no real universal standard.

A few examples here. The original TV airings (and even new ones) recolor Roshi's beer into foamy water or milk or some shit. Yet the very G-rated Beauty and the Beast not only features plenty of flowing ale, it also leads to a drunken brawl.

When the 90s Spider-Man cartoon aired, the network was a little concerned over violence, probably as a result of Batman. So they made a rule that Spider-Man couldn't punch anybody.

The Mega Man cartoon was pretty tame, right? Basically standard fare action show with some comedy. But wouldn't you know that when Mega Man aired in syndication on Fox Family they edited it? They wouldn't allow any scene in which Mega Man got hit. So you'd have some really bizarre edits where the scene would abruptly change since they cut out a clip of Mega Man getting knocked out a window or something.

[MarcFBR]

Because the fact that it requires censorship during localisation (not talking about the one "by default" like Kai, but the one actually added by countries importing the show) clearly states that, by official criterias, it is unsuitable for kids.

I think the misconception here is that it "requires" censorship. Different studios and networks have different rules, sometimes not even consistent within itself. It's essentially self-censorship with no real universal standard.

A few examples here. The original TV airings (and even new ones) recolor Roshi's beer into foamy water or milk or some shit. Yet the very G-rated Beauty and the Beast not only features plenty of flowing ale, it also leads to a drunken brawl.

When the 90s Spider-Man cartoon aired, the network was a little concerned over violence, probably as a result of Batman. So they made a rule that Spider-Man couldn't punch anybody.

The Mega Man cartoon was pretty tame, right? Basically standard fare action show with some comedy. But wouldn't you know that when Mega Man aired in syndication on Fox Family they edited it? They wouldn't allow any scene in which Mega Man got hit. So you'd have some really bizarre edits where the scene would abruptly change since they cut out a clip of Mega Man getting knocked out a window or something.

Editing/rewriting is relatively normal around the world. We tend to just only notice our own stuff though (both in regards to shows from other countries, and even our own, since we have greatest access to those shows staffs.) Some of the whacky shit Japan does to our shows is hilarious.

Some of the things worth looking up the Japanese adaptions because of crazy adaptions- Beast Wars, South Park, Simpsons Movie (only one specific thing about that was crazy...), Transformers Animated, are generally the most known.

Of course, Kai itself is proof. Even if you ignore normal edits, there are clearly edits for content in the Japanese version.

Anime fans generally only get to see the Japanese to American edits though, so they tend to think that is all that exists.

[JulieYBM]

It still makes me sad that they sully Chiba Shigeru's good name by having him voice Beast Wars Megatron...rewritten to be the type of character Chiba typically would play. >_<

[TheBlackPaladin]

Here's something that I was surprised to learn. For every network, the edits on particular shows...are decided by one guy. One. I thought there was a censorship committee but, nope. There's one guy for each network in charge of deciding what to edit out. I'm trying really hard to find it, but a 4Kids employee who spoke on condition of anonymity answered a lot of "behind the scenes" questions about 4Kids, and said that the reason the editing standards kept changing was because they were decided by whoever was head of the censorship department at the time. Some of the committee heads found things offensive that previous committee heads didn't, and visa versa. He also said that one particular edit for Kai (I'll have you guess which one) came about because the head of the CW censorship department happened to be black...and he didn't take too kindly to the visual portrayal of a certain genie who lives with Kami...

It makes you wonder how they hire for that job. "Okay, let's go out and try to find the most conservative, humorless, uptight, angry religious zealot that we can possibly find. If it doesn't offend him, then we KNOW it's okay."

[DanielGClapp]

So in other words, the black guy, in his attempt to prevent racism, actually engendered what he was trying to prevent. There was a similar instance that happened in Pokemon. When an episode that starred Jynx was made, it got completely banned because some people thought Jynx was a racial stereotype. Who's to decide what a racial stereotype is? What if I said Planet of the Apes was racist, would that get banned? No. So then why are edits and bans like this happening? Ignorance? I mean, at least when you buy Kai on DVD you get it all uncut. Unfortunately, as far as Pokemon goes, there are a few episodes that got banned and you can't even buy (including the Jynx episode). They didn't even get dubbed. They should let me do the editing I would have the easiest job ever, because I wouldn't do a thing.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Well, it's because censorship is a big, inconsistent, bullshit ball of mess controlled by (taking influence from TheBlackPaladin) conservative, humourless, uptight, hate-filled religious fundamentalist assholes.

[Rocketman]

They should let me do the editing I would have the easiest job ever, because I wouldn't do a thing.

So I would've never become a Dragonball fan because my parents would've fucking exploded over "SATAN SATAN SATAN".

Thanks, dick.

[DanielGClapp]

Well, it's because censorship is a big, inconsistent, bullshit ball of mess controlled by (taking influence from TheBlackPaladin) conservative, humourless, uptight, hate-filled religious fundamentalist assholes.

Yeah, pretty much. The epitome of 4Kids.

[MarcFBR]

Here's something that I was surprised to learn. For every network, the edits on particular shows...are decided by one guy. One. I thought there was a censorship committee but, nope. There's one guy for each network in charge of deciding what to edit out. I'm trying really hard to find it, but a 4Kids employee who spoke on condition of anonymity answered a lot of "behind the scenes" questions about 4Kids, and said that the reason the editing standards kept changing was because they were decided by whoever was head of the censorship department at the time. Some of the committee heads found things offensive that previous committee heads didn't, and visa versa. He also said that one particular edit for Kai (I'll have you guess which one) came about because the head of the CW censorship department happened to be black...and he didn't take too kindly to the visual portrayal of a certain genie who lives with Kami...

It makes you wonder how they hire for that job. "Okay, let's go out and try to find the most conservative, humorless, uptight, angry religious zealot that we can possibly find. If it doesn't offend him, then we KNOW it's okay."

That isn't the way standards and practices at networks work. More than likely CW had one liaison to 4kids who would make 'suggestions', and if 4kids disagreed they could ask for someone higher up to review. In general they wouldn't though, because they have to spend the time to reanimate/fix and if they waited for the review, they wouldn't have time to fix it if they still have to.

Most networks have entire divisions for dealing with this kind of thing. The network couldn't run if one person ended up making every division, because a single guy would have to watch every minute of programming, which is literally impossible, because each CW not only airs network content, but their own.

And a 4kids exec discussed most of this publicly at ANN. They had to argue to get the Ninja Turtles 'mock curse word' shell on the air at CW. A word they used constantly because no one at Fox had an issue with it.


As for Piccolo's comment- I've known standards and practices guys, most of them are quite ludicrous with their own humor. Their job requires being conservative because that is the job. Upset as few people as possible in the hopes the audience numbers will be higher.

One of the most amusing stories regarding an S&P division having a sense of humor is Stewie saying a bleeped 'fuck' on Family Guy season... 2 or 3 I don't recall which. S&P told them they had to cut it. Seth called them up and basically went "Guys, we all know Fox is cancelling Family Guy, it's bleeped, can we just keep it in?" and the S&P guys went "Sure, it's funny."

[MarcFBR]

They should let me do the editing I would have the easiest job ever, because I wouldn't do a thing.

So I would've never become a Dragonball fan because my parents would've fucking exploded over "SATAN SATAN SATAN".

Thanks, dick.

Not just you, 99% of us. Cause it wouldn't have aired.

[Eire]

That's so unfair! My parents didn't pay attention to anything, including "Satan" and naked Goku in GT opening. I was watching it, while my Mom was doin the ironing in the same room and she has never forbidden me anything. I feel abandoned.