Mr. Popo's Power Level

[Bussani]

He also said that Goku (while he had his heavy clothes) was stronger than he was when he defeated Piccolo Daimao.

Well, he said "three years ago" rather than "when he defeated Daimao". I do suppose it's more likely that he's talking about the Goku who fought Daimao than the Goku he fought himself, though.

[FNF]

He also said that Goku (while he had his heavy clothes) was stronger than he was when he defeated Piccolo Daimao.

Well, he said "three years ago" rather than "when he defeated Daimao". I do suppose it's more likely that he's talking about the Goku who fought Daimao than the Goku he fought himself, though.

Unless you think Goku (22nd)>>Tenshinhan, then the statement wouldn't make sense in that context.

[Bussani]

Unless you think Goku (22nd)>>Tenshinhan, then the statement wouldn't make sense in that context.

Could you elaborate on that?

[FNF]

Well he says that his strength was "all but perfect" right?
So that would mean, technically, that 22nd Budokai Goku was the strongest up until that point if it was specifically talking about him at the 22nd Budokai.

[Bussani]

Well he says that his strength was "all but perfect" right?
So that would mean, technically, that 22nd Budokai Goku was the strongest up until that point if it was specifically talking about him at the 22nd Budokai.

I don't see how "all but perfect" translates to "stronger than me". But in the end, I do think he was talking about the Goku who faced Daimao, so I suppose it's moot.

[Michsi]

While I'm not 100% sure about Tenshinhan still being weaker than Piccolo Daimao at the time of Radditz arrival, I'm pretty sure it is true that he was till weaker than him at the 23 Tournament.

First of all, Tenshinhan having surpassed Daimao would habe probably been noted. Secondly, it was established early on that Tenshinhan was no match for Goku, way before Goku took off his weigthed clothes. Thirdly, Piccolo Daimao had enough power to decimate entire cities , I can't imagine Tenshinhan coping with that, at least not at that point.

It seemed to me that Tenshinhan's speed was the only thing he thought he had on Goku. But you can't win with speed alone and definetely not in a life and death situation like a hypothetical fight between Daimao and 23rd TB Ten would have been.

[CaBrPi]

While I'm not 100% sure about Tenshinhan still being weaker than Piccolo Daimao at the time of Radditz arrival, I'm pretty sure it is true that he was till weaker than him at the 23 Tournament.

First of all, Tenshinhan having surpassed Daimao would habe probably been noted. Secondly, it was established early on that Tenshinhan was no match for Goku, way before Goku took off his weigthed clothes. Thirdly, Piccolo Daimao had enough power to decimate entire cities , I can't imagine Tenshinhan coping with that, at least not at that point.

It seemed to me that Tenshinhan's speed was the only thing he thought he had on Goku. But you can't win with speed alone and definetely not in a life and death situation like a hypothetical fight between Daimao and 23rd TB Ten would have been.

Are we to assume Vegeta never surpassed Freeza, then? Because it's never noted or said, even after Vegeta attains Super Saiyan 2.

Also, don't forget that USSj Trunks was supposed to be just as strong as Perfect Cell, but he would've died anyway because Cell was so much faster. It's pretty much useless to try to fight an enemy who's that much faster than you, because you'll never land a hit.

It also seems like a lot of your argument stems from your personal interpretation, rather than what we see in the manga.

Let me break it down:

1. Tenshinhan is much, much faster than weighted Goku.
2. Tenshinhan says that Goku much stronger than "three years ago", which, in context, points to the fight with Daimao.
3. Tenshinhan was winning against Goku until Goku took off his weighted training gear.

So, because Weighted Goku is stronger than the Goku who beat King Piccolo single-handedly, and Tenshinhan was beating Weighted Goku, we can say that Tenshinhan would beat Daimao.

[Michsi]

Are we to assume Vegeta never surpassed Freeza, then? Because it's never noted or said, even after Vegeta attains Super Saiyan 2.

The big difference, however is, that there are clear comparison factors here.
SSJ Vegeta was noted to be around or stronger than SSJ Goku, who was stronger than SSJ Trunks, who easily defeated both Freeza and King Cold. Clear!

The Ten vs. Daimao situation? Not so clear.

1. Tenshinhan is much, much faster than weighted Goku.

Goku still seemed to be able to keep up with Tenshinhan to some extent so I don't know about "much,much"

2. Tenshinhan says that Goku much stronger than "three years ago", which, in context, points to the fight with Daimao.

Which brings us back to why Tenshinhan felt the need to resort to speed based tactics. It really seemed like he thought he found an error in Goku's mind set by assuming he would focus only on developing his strength (which seems to be a common mistaked amoung warriors given that Trunks and to a lesser extent Vegeta. make the same one, later in the story) Instead of trying to become stronger than Goku, he tries to become faster than him. And I repead if speed is all you have and it's not by a great amount, than it's hard to defeat you opponent.

3. Tenshinhan was winning against Goku until Goku took off his weighted training gear.

I don't know about that. Tenshinhan landed some pretty good hits and Goku just brushed them off. On the other hand, Tenhsinhan had trouble keeping up with Goku even before he took off his weigthed clothing.

[rereboy]

The fact still remains that Tenshinhan said that Goku was stronger than he was (which obviously refers to when he fought Daimao) (in his heavy clothes). Doesn't get much clearer than that.

So, why would the people that made the guide put Tenshinhan (in early DBZ) below Daimao? Even if we think that its not set in stone in the manga, there are many more indications that Tenshinhan is stronger than Daimao by then than the opposite. Things like that is what makes me not care about that sort of guides.

[Michsi]

Doesn't get much clearer than that.

Yes, what is clear is that Goku is stronger than he was 3 years ago. What isn't clear , is where this places Tenshinhan.
He never does any serious damage to Goku , weigthed clothes or not.

[rereboy]

Doesn't get much clearer than that.

Yes, what is clear is that Goku is stronger than he was 3 years ago. What isn't clear , is where this places Tenshinhan.
He never does any serious damage to Goku , weigthed clothes or not.

I've edited my post. Like I said, even if some might argue that its not set in stone, the fact still remains that there are more indications of that than the opposite. So, either way, the guide would be "wrong" IMO.

[Fox666]

The problem with Popo's level being that strong comes from these statements:

Chapter: 164, P7.1-3
Goku: “Amazin’…Mister Popo, you really are incredible! That’s why I couldn’t beat ya!”
Popo: “Heh, well…Mister Popo has learned a whole, whole lot from God. That’s why I’m great.”
Goku: “So this ‘God’ guy is even more amazin’!?”
Popo: “Of course. God is far, far more incredible.”

Mr. Popo doesn't necessarily meant that god is stronger than him.

[FNF]

Well he says that his strength was "all but perfect" right?
So that would mean, technically, that 22nd Budokai Goku was the strongest up until that point if it was specifically talking about him at the 22nd Budokai.

I don't see how "all but perfect" translates to "stronger than me". But in the end, I do think he was talking about the Goku who faced Daimao, so I suppose it's moot.

I don't mean it like that. It's just that 'all but perfect' to Tenshinhan should count as the strongest fighter he's seen and that includes Piccolo Daimao and Goku (post Chou God water).

[Kaboom]

That's also likely his level after training the humans for a year.

To me it sounds very implausible. Mr. Popo is quite a mysterious character, his battle power being unpredictable doesn't surprise me.

Well, it would fit the context of the image, since most of the listed powers on it are from the battle with Nappa and Vegeta.

[Michsi]

the fact still remains that there are more indications of that than the opposite

I disagree with this. While I'm not that set on believing that Daimao is stronger than Ten, I believe there are more indications towards it + the guide book. All we have for the opposite is that one statement for Tenshinhan. The other is Piccolo Daimao's strength, Tenshinhan not being too much of a serious threat to Goku throughout the entire fight + a guide book.

Back to Popo.

We might also have to take into consideration that Kami was very old and Popo seems to be younger (I have no idea if he is supposed to be ageless or something) It might be that he learned a lot from Kami, when he was at his prime.

[Bussani]

I don't mean it like that. It's just that 'all but perfect' to Tenshinhan should count as the strongest fighter he's seen and that includes Piccolo Daimao and Goku (post Chou God water).

Well, I disagree. I think it could be applied to the Goku he fought personally and still make sense. In shonen you can say a line like, "When we last fought you were the strongest you could ever be--but then you went beyond that, and now you've gone beyond THAT," and it still works even though it's contradictory, because shonen is all about going beyond the limit like that. But in the end, I also think he was talking about the Goku who beat Daimao, so yeah.