Who do you count as main antagonist?

Attitudefan · Post by **Attitudefan** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:35 pm

Silver Sinspawn wrote:Piccolo and Freeza

This

Piccolo Daimao · Post by **Piccolo Daimao** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:39 pm

Care to elaborate on that?

Saiga · Post by **Saiga** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Yeah, I'm really not seeing it. Neither of them could be the main antagonist.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:34 pm

Freeza. Because he was the one who started it all, treating the Saiyans as slaves and by killing almost all of them.

Its because of him that there are only 3 saiyans left for Goku and the others to deal with on Earth, and if the series ended with Freeza there would be no doubt on anyone's mind that Freeza had been the main antagonist.

Saiga · Post by **Saiga** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:38 pm

rereboy wrote:Freeza. Because he was the one who started it all, treating the Saiyans as slaves and by killing almost all of them.

Its because of him that there are only 3 saiyans left for Goku and the others to deal with on Earth, and if the series ended with Freeza there would be no doubt on anyone's mind that Freeza had been the main antagonist.

But it didn't end with Freeza. He becomes largely insignificant, so he can't be the main antagonist.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:44 pm

Saiga wrote:
rereboy wrote:Freeza. Because he was the one who started it all, treating the Saiyans as slaves and by killing almost all of them.

Its because of him that there are only 3 saiyans left for Goku and the others to deal with on Earth, and if the series ended with Freeza there would be no doubt on anyone's mind that Freeza had been the main antagonist.
But it didn't end with Freeza. He becomes largely insignificant, so he can't be the main antagonist.

... My point was that he is the most like a main antagonist. So, for the purpose of this topic I have to answer Freeza.

I think its fairly obvious that there isn't a single one that can be considered as such since, as you said, it didn't end with Freeza.

Michsi · Post by **Michsi** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:05 am

Piccolo might count because he was the first real threat and it was with his arc that was a turning point for DB as a series. Huge scale fights pretty much started with him.

Freeza stands out for me because :
- first threat on a galatic level
- ruler of an empire
- his design one of the most memorable
- his fight introduces the SSJ

The other villains just don't seem that memorable to me.
Knowing that Vegeta is an underling of the main villain of the next arc kinda undermines his impact on the story as a villain for me. Though I view the Saiyan arc and Namek arc separatley, I can't help but feel that Freeza overshadows him.

Cell just didn't impress me much and neither did the final fight in his arc.

Buu having multiple forms and personalities makes it hard for me to view him as one villain.

Ringworm128 · Post by **Ringworm128** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:05 am

Its a toss up between Freeza and Red Ribbon Army. They got an entire arc with an entire army then theres the AH saga and Cell saga along with Movie 7 and DB Movie 4. Dr Gero is still causing trouble in GT with Super #17. Freeza had a whole galactic empire, he was the first villain to have a HUGE battle power his arc introduced SSJ. His DNA was in Cell he even had a small part at the start of the AH arc. Him blowing up Planet Vegeta is the reason for Radits going to Earth to get Goku for help stating DBZ, along with him being the reason for spin of villains in movies and specials like Turles and his men.

DBZGTKOSDH · Post by **DBZGTKOSDH** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:50 am

Guys, Dragon Ball doesn't have a main series antagonist. The main antagonist are divided by arcs. Freeza, Cell, Daimao, Boo... no one was from the begining to the end. Only Red Ribbon Army as a whole could be considered as the most major villain organisation, but not the main, main antagonist.

Piccolo Daimao · Post by **Piccolo Daimao** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:55 pm

And even the Red Ribbon Army's significance in the Cell arc diminishes or was never even important in the first placeeee, as Dr. Gero (retconned as a previously unknown scientist for the RRA who built the practically one-shot #8, who's only really confirmed as being related to the other Androids on that Androids title page) dies early on and the Androids and Cell don't even follow his orders. The defunct RRA are just like a tag for the Androids and Cell at this point, and other than that, they don't really have anything to do with them.

Saiga · Post by **Saiga** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:39 pm

Piccolo Daimao wrote:And even the Red Ribbon Army's significance in the Cell arc diminishes or was never even important in the first placeeee, as Dr. Gero (retconned as a previously unknown scientist for the RRA who built the practically one-shot #8, who's only really confirmed as being related to the other Androids on that Androids title page) dies early on and the Androids and Cell don't even follow his orders. The defunct RRA are just like a tag for the Androids and Cell at this point, and other than that, they don't really have anything to do with them.

They still created them. And Cell seems to want to follow Dr. Gero's wishes (however he interprets them).

AgitoZ · Post by **AgitoZ** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:42 pm

If someone is viewed as the main antagonist by how much shit they throw at the fan, then I'd vote Son Goku for the role. He brings more trouble to Earth and it's inhabitants than anybody else.

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:59 am

If there's any character fitting of that title, it's Vegeta. Throughout Z, he's always either escalating conflicts or creating new ones. He's obviously the main villain in the Saiyan arc. He's responsible for provoking Freeza's transformations on Namek, is responsible for Cell reaching his perfect form, and is responsible for Buu being released.

Saiga · Post by **Saiga** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:52 am

Zephyr wrote:If there's any character fitting of that title, it's Vegeta. Throughout Z, he's always either escalating conflicts or creating new ones. He's obviously the main villain in the Saiyan arc. He's responsible for provoking Freeza's transformations on Namek, is responsible for Cell reaching his perfect form, and is responsible for Buu being released.

Vegeta is only responsible for one of Freeza's transformations, Piccolo/Gohan are responsible for the other ones. And you can argue that Piccolo was responsible for Cell absorbing 17.

Michsi · Post by **Michsi** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:05 am

And you can argue that Piccolo was responsible for Cell absorbing 17.

That's like saying Roshi is to blame for Piccolo getting his youth back or Goku is to blame that Piccolo Jr. got born.
All three of them scared Freeza into transforming, but nobody goaded him like Vegeta. Small but important difference.

Saiga · Post by **Saiga** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:52 am

Michsi wrote:
And you can argue that Piccolo was responsible for Cell absorbing 17.
That's like saying Roshi is to blame for Piccolo getting his youth back or Goku is to blame that Piccolo Jr. got born.
All three of them scared Freeza into transforming, but nobody goaded him like Vegeta. Small but important difference.

No, Piccolo lead Cell right to 17 is what I meant.

Michsi · Post by **Michsi** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:05 am

No, Piccolo lead Cell right to 17 is what I meant.

Yes, and Roshi led Piccolo to all other DBs.

No, Cell would have found out where the androids were in either case because 17 came to THEM, with every intention of beating the information out of anyone who could tell them where Goku was. What he did was try to stop him from hurting anyone else and defeat him before Cell could get to him. That Cell got so much stronger in such a short time was a miscalculation on his part. There is a difference between trying to stop something from happening and failing and letting it happen.

Saiga · Post by **Saiga** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:20 am

Michsi wrote:
No, Piccolo lead Cell right to 17 is what I meant.
Yes, and Roshi led Piccolo to all other DBs.

No, Cell would have found out where the androids were in either case because 17 came to THEM, with every intention of beating the information out of anyone who could tell them where Goku was. What he did was try to stop him from hurting anyone else and defeat him before Cell could get to him. That Cell got so much stronger in such a short time was a miscalculation on his part. There is a difference between trying to stop something from happening and failing and letting it happen.

Piccolo had a way of finding the DBs, Cell had no way of finding the androids until he could sense Piccolo fighting.

Michsi · Post by **Michsi** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:33 am

Cell had no way of finding the androids until he could sense Piccolo fighting

Doesn't change the fact that he made it easier for him and ended up helping him more tha hurting him. And there is no way I'd blame Roshi for Piccolo getting his youth back . SAme with Piccolo. As I said, Cell would have found 17 either way once the androids came to the island looking for Goku. 17 would have engaged them in battle,ki's would have gone up and he would have felt them.

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:40 pm

Saiga wrote:
Zephyr wrote:If there's any character fitting of that title, it's Vegeta. Throughout Z, he's always either escalating conflicts or creating new ones. He's obviously the main villain in the Saiyan arc. He's responsible for provoking Freeza's transformations on Namek, is responsible for Cell reaching his perfect form, and is responsible for Buu being released.
Vegeta is only responsible for one of Freeza's transformations, Piccolo/Gohan are responsible for the other ones. And you can argue that Piccolo was responsible for Cell absorbing 17.

In Freeza's case, he had no intention of transforming at all until Vegeta brought it up, and would otherwise have been easily beaten. In Cell's case, Vegeta allowed him to reach his perfect form, and would otherwise have been easily beaten.

Sure, you can say how a lot of characters are partially responsible for villains getting stronger/released, but none do it as consistently as Vegeta.

Kanzenshuu

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