Power Level Multiplier Discussion

[Perfect]

I just like to think MSS is 5x base to fit the kiri implications and make the Base Saiyans > Piccolo, Androids, Kaioshin make more sense.

MSS?

Mastered Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan Full Power or whatever you want to call it. Sorry I'm really inconsistent with what I call it.

Oh I see. That really doesn't make too much since it's not really a grade or transformation though. It's pretty much just mastering the form. Note the peaceful unenclosed look in their eyes as well. I guess by mastering it, Goku was able to retain his pure heart in the form, along with Gohan.

[Senzu_Bean]

The term "Super Saiyan Full Power" isn't a form nor a transformation but a tittle just like "Super Vegeta" or "Super Vegetto", a tittle to emphasizes that Goku is at the limits of the Super Saiyan form. There is no reason as to why the multiplayer would shrink to whatever value less than 50x and call it "Mastered Super Saiyan".

[Hitiro]

If anything the only variations on SSJ which boost the SSJ's multiplier are the graded forms or USSJ form. We all know that using those variations boost the users battle power but the cost of that is speed and the form becomes much more greedy on energy.

Also I think the formula for each level multiplier for SSJ would be something like

Edit(Modified formula to compensate for the mistake of SSJ2 not being right): BP = B * (C * F-O\/-1^F)

Where B = Base, C = original SSJ multiplier which is 50, O = distance from original SSJ form(Note: I feel that all the forms above SSJ are 1 step away from the original SSJ form purely because I feel they are variations on that form and nobody ever clarifies, for instance, SSJ2 is needed to go to SSJ3.) and F = the current form.

Going off Goku's base from Namek saga:
SSJ = 3,000,000 * (50 * 1-0^1) = 3,000,000 * (50 * 1^1) = 3,000,000 * (50 * 1 ) = 3,000,000 * 50 = 150,000,000
SSJ2 = 3,000,000 * (50 * 2-0^2) = 3,000,000 * (50 * 2^2) = 3,000,000 * (50 * 2 ) = 3,000,000 * 100 = 300,000,000
SSJ3 = 3,000,000 * (50 * 3-1^3) = 3,000,000 * (50 * 2^3) = 3,000,000 * (50 * 8 ) = 3,000,000 * 400 = 1,200,000,000
SSJ4 = 3,000,000 * (50 * 4-1^4) = 3,000,000 * (50 * 3^4) = 3,000,000 * (50 * 81) = 3,000,000 * 4050 = 12,150,000,000

[Bussani]

Also I think the formula for each level multiplier for SSJ would be something like

BP = B * (C * F-O^F)

Where B = Base, C = original SSJ multiplier which is 50, O = distance from original SSJ form(Note: I feel that all the forms above SSJ are 1 step away from the original SSJ form purely because I feel they are variations on that form and nobody ever clarifies, for instance, SSJ2 is needed to go to SSJ3.) and F = the current form.

Going off Goku's base from Namek saga:
SSJ = 3,000,000 * (50 * 1-0^1) = 3,000,000 * (50 * 1^1) = 3,000,000 * (50 * 1 ) = 3,000,000 * 50 = 150,000,000
SSJ2 = 3,000,000 * (50 * 2-1^2) = 3,000,000 * (50 * 1^2) = 3,000,000 * (50 * 2 ) = 3,000,000 * 100 = 300,000,000
SSJ3 = 3,000,000 * (50 * 3-1^3) = 3,000,000 * (50 * 2^3) = 3,000,000 * (50 * 8 ) = 3,000,000 * 400 = 1,200,000,000
SSJ4 = 3,000,000 * (50 * 4-1^4) = 3,000,000 * (50 * 3^4) = 3,000,000 * (50 * 81) = 3,000,000 * 4050 = 12,150,000,000

That's a cool way of looking at it. But doesn't 1^2 equal 1? The Super Saiyan 2 formula won't work the intended way because of that.

[Fox666]

If you want to follow a pattern, the easiest way to look at it:

Super Saiyan 2: 2 times Super Saiyan
Super Saiyan 3: 4 times Super Saiyan 2
Super Saiyan 4: 8 times Super Saiyan 3

However, like I mentioned before, the GT Perfect Files mention that "Super Saiyan 4" is used only for convenience, and is of a complete different species from the other forms. Thus there shouldn't really be a pattern.

[Hitiro]

Also I think the formula for each level multiplier for SSJ would be something like

BP = B * (C * F-O^F)

Where B = Base, C = original SSJ multiplier which is 50, O = distance from original SSJ form(Note: I feel that all the forms above SSJ are 1 step away from the original SSJ form purely because I feel they are variations on that form and nobody ever clarifies, for instance, SSJ2 is needed to go to SSJ3.) and F = the current form.

Going off Goku's base from Namek saga:
SSJ = 3,000,000 * (50 * 1-0^1) = 3,000,000 * (50 * 1^1) = 3,000,000 * (50 * 1 ) = 3,000,000 * 50 = 150,000,000
SSJ2 = 3,000,000 * (50 * 2-1^2) = 3,000,000 * (50 * 1^2) = 3,000,000 * (50 * 2 ) = 3,000,000 * 100 = 300,000,000
SSJ3 = 3,000,000 * (50 * 3-1^3) = 3,000,000 * (50 * 2^3) = 3,000,000 * (50 * 8 ) = 3,000,000 * 400 = 1,200,000,000
SSJ4 = 3,000,000 * (50 * 4-1^4) = 3,000,000 * (50 * 3^4) = 3,000,000 * (50 * 81) = 3,000,000 * 4050 = 12,150,000,000

That's a cool way of looking at it. But doesn't 1^2 equal 1? The Super Saiyan 2 formula won't work the intended way because of that.

Ah, your right. I originally was working off increasing the power to get the end value so I didn't have that problem but then the value of SSJ3 was incorrect. Well one way of correcting it is changing O from equaling the distance from the original SSJ form and changing to O\/-1 = the distance from the original SSJ form of the previous SSJ form. So something like:
SSJ = 0
SSJ2 = SSJ = 0
SSJ3 = SSJ2 = 1
SSJ4 = SSJ3 = 1

[dbgtFO]

My best guess for a Super Saian 4 multiplier is 4,000x regular state.

Reasoning: Super Saiyan 3 is 400x regular state(if strength = battle power) Ozaru is 10x regular state, multiply the two and you get 4,000, which makes some sense considering Goku uses a 10x Kamehameha in this form(perhaps a hint to Super Saiyan 4 being 10x Super Saiyan 3? )

In any case, even if the SEG writers didn't intend for strength to be interpreted as synonymous with battle power, I'd still believe that Super Saiyan 4 is 10x Super Saiyan 3 due to the 10x Kamehameha.

[Fox666]

It's just a Kamehameha 10 times stronger... and far-fetched in my oppinion.

[dbgtFO]

It's just a Kamehameha 10 times stronger... and far-fetched in my oppinion.

That's the joke.

[Kaboom]

Reasoning: Super Saiyan 3 is 400x regular state(if strength = battle power) Ozaru is 10x regular state, multiply the two and you get 4,000, which makes some sense considering Goku uses a 10x Kamehameha in this form(perhaps a hint to Super Saiyan 4 being 10x Super Saiyan 3? )

What about for Vegeta, who doesn't have Super Saiyan 3?

That's why I tend to think that if SSj4 had any sort of multiplier, it'd be based off the first stage of Super Saiyan only, without having to factor in whether or not the user attained anything else.

[Pantalones]

Golden Oozaru would be 500x base power level (assuming regular Oozaru is 10x and Super Saiyan is 50x, since the form is basically just a Super Saiyan Oozaru), so I guess Super Saiyan 4 would be somewhere in that range, or probably a bit higher.

4000x for SSj4 just seems absurdly high, though. Maybe 1000x could work--it's twice the power of Golden Oozaru, just like how Super Saiyan 2 is twice the power of regular Super Saiyan... which would make a hypothetical "Super Saiyan 5" be a SSj3-like "super strong but really bad about draining your energy" state with a 4000x boost, if "Super Oozaru" stages follow the same pattern as regular Super Saiyan stages.

[Hitiro]

Golden Oozaru would be 500x base power level (assuming regular Oozaru is 10x and Super Saiyan is 50x, since the form is basically just a Super Saiyan Oozaru), so I guess Super Saiyan 4 would be somewhere in that range, or probably a bit higher.

4000x for SSj4 just seems absurdly high, though. Maybe 1000x could work--it's twice the power of Golden Oozaru, just like how Super Saiyan 2 is twice the power of regular Super Saiyan... which would make a hypothetical "Super Saiyan 5" be a SSj3-like "super strong but really bad about draining your energy" state with a 4000x boost, if "Super Oozaru" stages follow the same pattern as regular Super Saiyan stages.

It's not that absurd really if your taking into account, and I can't remember much of GT so correct me if I'm wrong, Bebi Vegeta had amassed power from the whole planet with them hating Saiyan's and considering the planets population is 6-7 billion if you times that by the 5 because thats the average powerlevel for a human than your looking at atleast 30 -35 billion extra powerlevel onto whatever powerlevel Vegeta had, plus his SSJ form which times that by 50. We don't know Goku's base powerlevel by GT but if he's been training with Uub we can assume its close to Kid Buu's and we know Kid Buu's powerlevel is weaker than 30-35 billion because otherwise a spirit bomb from Goku with the collective energy of everyone on earth wouldn't be able to kill him. How much weaker Kid Buu is in relation to 30-35 billion is a mystery. He could only be in the single billion digits.

[Bussani]

we know Kid Buu's powerlevel is weaker than 30-35 billion because otherwise a spirit bomb from Goku with the collective energy of everyone on earth wouldn't be able to kill him.

It also had Gohan and everyone else's power behind it. Considering how strong Gohan was at that point, some people ask why his ki alone wasn't enough. Then there's the ki of the Namekians, Enma and his friends, and maybe the Kaioshin planet and its dozens of suns as well.

[Fox666]

Gohan had just been revived, like Vegeta he probably would be unable to use his powers. The Namekians are only around 100 people and counting with the few assistants of Enma, altogether they probably would render less than 100,000. So there is Kaioshin left who is weaker than a Super Saiyan 2, so his Ki is probably less than 1/4 of Pure Majin Boo.

The world population in 1995 (chapter release) was 5.67 billion, which would make 28 billion in battle power, if we assume that Genki = battle power. I don't like the idea that the Super Genki-dama could only kill the Pure Majin Boo because of Kaioshin, and I prefer to think that only with the humans they could make it.

Also Goku finally defeated the Pure Majin Boo while in his regular Super Saiyan form, so the Genki-dama should be many times stronger than Pure Boo? At least it is more than enough.

[Perfect]

Genki seems to be a portion or rather, an attribute of chi, or just a better way to say life-force. If we assume every person on the planet has 5-10 in terms of battle power, then the power gained would probably be around 4-6 per person (Actually 5-10 is completely possible seeing that Gohan was still alive with 0) . People like Farmer and Bulma are around 5 no doubt, but people like Giran would probably be around 6-10. That's just a guess, but those type of people would be no doubt in a minority.

We don't really know how Genki works, but the way works fairly well.

W = Earthlings
X = Gohan's battle power
Y = Piccolo and friends
Z = Kaioshin and everyone else
GD = Genki-Dama
PB = Pure Buu's battle power

W + X + Y + Z = GD - PB = -1 or lower

Le'ts say the average battle power on the planet is 7.5 just to average things out.
5, 6, 7 8 ,9 ,10
7+8/2 = 7.5

W = 3.75 X 10 to the 10th

We don't know Gohan's power at all, so it could be anything. Let's say he's at 40% of what he'd normally be at. Let's say that's 3-5 billion.
X = 3.0-5.0 × 10 to the 9th

We can just assume what these numbers would be since it's most likely a minuscule increase at that.
Y+Z = 2.1 X 10 to the 9th

I'm unsure if Vegeta gave his energy, but I assume he did. So I grouped him with X and Y, so without him I'd place it at 1.1-1.2 X 10 to the 9th.

W + X + Y + Z = GD - PB
3.75+4+2.1 = 4.36 X 10 to the 10th.

Now wait, we have to factor in every living creature that would have given its power regardless of whether or not it was asked. So let's add a new variable to the mix.

U = Millions/Billions of creatures, planets and suns.

Now if three stars and neighboring planets plus Namek being gathered for a short while is somewhere around 40 million, we can multiply that by oh say (We had from the Kaioshin Realm to the Earth, so...) how's bout 1 million? Nah, that'd be over kill wouldn't it? That's be over a trillion in itself! Let's just assume the neighboring star systems of Namek and Earth shared their Genki. 40 million * 1 thousand, that's 4.00 X 10 to the 10th.

Before we finish, I'd like to note that every variable listed can be changed by assumption so this isn't a "This is the exact battle power of such and such, this is proof", but more so a, "This is an astute estimation of what Pure Buu and the Genki-Dama's possible battle power could be,"

GD+U = 8.36 X 10 to the 10th.

So Pure Buu based on these calculations would be under 83 billion, even if we take Gohan out of the equation and say he only had a few hundred thousand or million battle power, that'd still give us around 79 billion. We have no idea how many star systems' Genki was gathered. Not to mention that the population of Earth is a variable on its own. :p

[Bussani]

Gohan had just been revived, like Vegeta he probably would be unable to use his powers.

That's pretty debatable, though. It's not like anyone ever assumes Goku and Kuririn lost the hidden power they had brought to the surface after dying and coming back.

[Saiga]

Gohan had just been revived, like Vegeta he probably would be unable to use his powers.

That's pretty debatable, though. It's not like anyone ever assumes Goku and Kuririn lost the hidden power they had brought to the surface after dying and coming back.

No, they mean that people aren't revived with 100% ki, because Goku mentions to Vegeta when he is revived that he wont have any ki.

[Bussani]

Oh, okay then. My mistake.

...That's kind of weird though, isn't it? I don't think it was ever implied that people who've just come back to life weren't at full power before that. Was Piccolo not at full power when they wished him back to life and brought him to Namek? How odd...

[Saiga]

Oh, okay then. My mistake.

...That's kind of weird though, isn't it? I don't think it was ever implied that people who've just come back to life weren't at full power before that. Was Piccolo not at full power when they wished him back to life and brought him to Namek? How odd...

An alternate explanation is that Vegeta used up all his ki while fighting Kid Boo and being revived didn't restore that.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

An alternate explanation is that Vegeta used up all his ki while fighting Kid Boo and being revived didn't restore that.

That's the version that makes sense, the other one is "eh"...