Was Gohan SSJ2 against Dabura, Majin Buu's Shell, Z sword

[Goten Forever]

...Maybe he didn't want to draw lightning in every panel?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Since it realy doesn't make sense, it's a little obvious that Gohan isn't SSJ2 in all three cases. Why? Who knows for sure? I personaly believe that against Dabra, Gohan thought that if he was to go SSJ2, he would quickly give a lot of energy to Boo, so he thought that he could handle it in just SSJ. Don't forget that later, SSJ2 Goku & Vegeta quickly gave a lot of energy to Boo, maybe Gohan predicted that this was going to happen?
While trying to destroy Boo's shell, maybe because he was in panic he didn't think of it? It's not like he had used SSJ2 lot's of times, so maybe he forgot to do it while in panic. I can't think of anything better than this. And while trying to pull the Z-Sword, there was no real reason to get SSJ2.

...Maybe he didn't want to draw lightning in every panel?

It's not like sparks didn't appear in some panels, they weren't there at all. And it's not only the sparks, it's his face expresion, his hair style, and the shape of the aura. Besides, why wouldn't he want to draw sparks in every panel? He is a professional, working in a big manga industry, reaching nine years on working on Dragon Ball, and because he was bored, he didn't add sparks, while sparks were there in every other SSJ2/3 appearance? That's too cheap, if you ask me.

[Eight-Star Dragon]

I don't think Toriyama not wanting to draw the aura is the reason, considering Vegeta and Goku have the electrical aura when they're fighting, and Vegeta has it in his battle against Fat Boo. So yeah.

I am really curious what he was aiming for. Like others have mentioned, aside from the whole Gohan vs. Dabra debacle, he's generally consistent the electrical auras for Super Saiyans 2.

[Bussani]

But all of you go for lightning to play important factor so Gohan was never ssj2 after world tournament...

It's not just the lightning--it's the whole aura. The Super Saiyan aura and Super Saiyan 2 aura are very different, lightning or no lightning.

...Maybe he didn't want to draw lightning in every panel?

Even though he drew it consistently for Goku and Vegeta a few pages later?

Now that I read it again, I worded it wrongly. It doesn't say that he only transformed in the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai

Actually, you were right--you're just looking in the wrong place.

HIGH SCHOOL ERA
SUPER SAIYAN 2
First Appears: Vol. 37

If it's a form that appears again it says things like "36-42" or "36+". Of course, it always says that "Mightiest Warrior" Gohan only appears in volume 41 and not 42, despite the fact he was still drawn that way in the final volume, so...I'unno...

[Piccolo Daimao]

no one in the world has enough free time (nor life span) to do that.

Uhh, yeah, they do. Don't underestimate the determination and spare time of DB fans, let alone, well, loads of people in general. Herms, for one. Have you seen the amount of guides he's done for our community?

[hleV]

Was there a good enough reason for Gohan to go SSJ2 against Dabra?

In the 25th TB, Kibito asked him to go SSJ to see if Gohan would be useful, and so Gohan decided to show all he's got - SSJ2.
Against Dabra, however, he fought as a SSJ only. Naturally, that's the form he would start with. Now they fight for a bit and Dabra appears to be pretty decent, but it wasn't as if Gohan was really losing.

Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P10.5-6
Context: as Gohan fights Dabra
Vegeta: “Damn it…this is pissing me off! Alright, I’ll finish this!”
Goku: “Don’t, Vegeta! Let [Gohan] do it. It ain’t like he’s completely losing.”

I doubt the fight laster that long that Gohan would realize that he can only win by transforming to SSJ2. Before the round two, Dabra retreated and told Babidi about Vegeta's evil.

When Boo was about to be revived, Gohan Kamehameha'd the cocoon. Still not much reason to go SSJ2. Once Boo really appeared and Gohan felt his power, he ran. I believe he also said that he was confident in his speed (as stupid as it sounds, him having felt Boo's ki), so still no reason to go SSJ2. Once Boo caught up, it was an instant knock-out.

That's all there is to it. I doubt there's a more simple explanation, unless there are good counter-arguments to disprove this one.

[Piccolo Daimao]

If it was simple as that, then why didn't Toriyama just explain it to us, rather than making Gohan SS with no real apparent reason? We'd seen him transform into SS2 at the TB; why the fuck not now?

[hleV]

If it was simple as that, then why didn't Toriyama just explain it to us, rather than making Gohan SS with no real apparent reason? We'd seen him transform into SS2 at the TB; why the fuck not now?

I don't get it. What's your counter-argument to what I posted above?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I don't see the logic in your argument about Gohan's fight with Dabra. The goal wasn't to defeat him after going a couple of rounds at a similar level of strength, Dabra needed to die for them to save Piccolo and Kuririn. Gohan is not the battle junkie Goku and Vegeta are, so he shouldn't have been pussyfooting around.

[hleV]

I don't see the logic in your argument about Gohan's fight with Dabra. The goal wasn't to defeat him after going a couple of rounds at a similar level of strength, Dabra needed to die for them to save Piccolo and Kuririn. Gohan is not the battle junkie Goku and Vegeta are, so he shouldn't have been pussyfooting around.

The point is that the fight didn't necessary last long enough for Gohan to realize that Dabra won't be defeated if Gohan's only at SSJ1. By round 2 I meant that had the fight continued, Gohan may have finally went SSJ2.

[Eight-Star Dragon]

I guess it depends on how you interpret the scene.

[Just so you know, this post is based off me reading the English manga]

Gohan was struggling against Dabra. Maybe struggling's too strong a word, but he wasn't making much headway. At best, he was fighting Dabra to a standstill. That, plus the story seemed to lean towards Gohan being SSJ2.

I mean, Goku and Vegeta commenting on how weak Gohan is doesn't make too much sense with both of them knowing he's choosing to fight in a weaker state. Even if the term "Super Saiyan 2" wasn't around yet, you could at least have Goku or Vegeta ask "Why is Gohan not using his full power/power beyond Super Saiyan/power from against Cell/full power like he did at the tournament?" or something similar.

Goku and Vegeta didn't need to access their full power because they both beat their opponents without too much trouble (no trouble at all in Vegeta's case), but that obviously wasn't the case with Gohan and they should have noticed something was up if he was just Super Saiyan 1.

But of course, at the end of the day we can just say "ToriyamaDERP". People make mistakes. It happens.

[Super Vegetto]

Well from all comments this is what i get:
Gohan was FPSSJ against Dabura,,,AT didnt showed him as a ssj2 even if he neaded but he didnt,,so if lightning and aura are important factors then Gohan was only FPSSJ after world tournament,,,and yes its true that almost everyone though ssj2 is only for Gohan but as it was stated that he had much more potential doesnt make sence to not make him ssj2 in every fight in Buu saga...Well this is my opinion for now,,if more proof dont come il stay on Gohan never gone ssj2 after world tournament and end...

So its Perfect Cell or not so much suppressed > Dabura since he fought weaker version of Gohan and they were equal...

[hleV]

Again, the fight between Gohan and Dabra didn't at all seem that long to make conclusions. Vegeta's the only one who's impatient, but that's because he's Vegeta.
The first time we're shown them fighting, they're both seem just fine, not tired at all, so we can assume that the fight had started not long ago. After a few panels -- after Gohan breaks Dabra's sword -- Gohan seems worn out a bit. Shall he go SSJ2 and finish this for good? Nope, Dabra has plans for Vegeta. Fight's over.

And BTW, Vegeta's comment about Gohan being weaker doesn't necessarily have anything to do with his fight with Dabra. Vegeta just wanted to get it over with as quick as possible, that's all. Goku told him not to interfere because Gohan wasn't really losing. Basically it was not about Gohan not being able to defeat Dabra, but not doing it quick (that is, possibly, going SSJ2 and destroying him).

[Super Vegetto]

Again, the fight between Gohan and Dabra didn't at all seem that long to make conclusions. Vegeta's the only one who's impatient, but that's because he's Vegeta.
The first time we're shown them fighting, they're both seem just fine, not tired at all, so we can assume that the fight had started not long ago. After a few panels -- after Gohan breaks Dabra's sword -- Gohan seems worn out a bit. Shall he go SSJ2 and finish this for good? Nope, Dabra has plans for Vegeta. Fight's over.

And BTW, Vegeta's comment about Gohan being weaker doesn't necessarily have anything to do with his fight with Dabra. Vegeta just wanted to get it over with as quick as possible, that's all. Goku told him not to interfere because Gohan wasn't really losing. Basically it was not about Gohan not being able to defeat Dabra, but not doing it quick (that is, possibly, going SSJ2 and destroying him).

Well thats probably what happend because he doesnt have lightning aura, and that means he was only fpssj and never used ssj2 against Dabura.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

The point is that the fight didn't necessary last long enough for Gohan to realize that Dabra won't be defeated if Gohan's only at SSJ1. By round 2 I meant that had the fight continued, Gohan may have finally went SSJ2.

But that's my point, Gohan shouldn't have had to realize anything. As I said, Gohan isn't a battle junkie. He learned first hand what happens when you play around with your opponent when he fought Cell seven years ago. Other than stopping Buu's revival, Dabra WAS their goal in the ship. Goku had already made the comment that Dabra was close to Cell in terms of power and the demon was not only Babidi's body guard, the only true obstacle in their mission, but also holding his friends hostage. Gohan should have been smart enough to start the fight at full power before shit can take a turn for the worst.

Its pretty evident that Toriyama just dropped the ball there. He could have still had Dabra back out of the fight and continue the plot exactly as he did even if Gohan was going in for the kill instead of barely fighting evenly.

[Eight-Star Dragon]

Play-by-play in the manga, which doesn't show the fight from the beginning:



- Gohan punches Dabra several times, but he blocks them.
- One of his punches damages Dabra and sends him flying back.
- Dabra fires a mouth beam at Gohan that the latter doges.
- Gohan tries to hit Dabra some more, but Dabra evades him.
- Dabra re-appears elsewhere (much to Gohan's suprise), and hits him with a magic attack that sends him plummeting into the water.

- Gohan flies back out, Goku + Vegeta discuss Gohan's sub-par performance and how he's gotten weaker.
Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261)
Context: as Dabra fights Gohan
Goku: “Magic, huh? [Dabra]’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?”
Vegeta: “Hmph…Even so, he’s not an opponent [he? we?] can’t win against. [Gohan]’s so pathetic…So much so that he was stronger as a brat…”
Goku: “He really did slack off!”
(I don't know about the Japanese version, but in the Viz version Vegeta says "Hmph... I'm losing patience....". And Vegeta's first line above in Viz is referring to Gohan only, not the three of them)
- Gohan charges at Dabra, Dabra shoots his saliva at Gohan, it gets on his glove and Gohan quickly takes it off.
- Dabra charges Gohan with his sword, Gohan catches and breaks it but is shown to be rather worn-out.
- Vegeta further expresses his annoyance and impatience with Gohan, eventually causing Dabra to retreat.

Like the TheDevilsCorpse said, way would he bother not going all-out against Dabra? And even if you ignore that, between most of Gohan's punches failing to damage Dabra, Dabra sending him plummeting into the water, Gohan flying right into prime position for Dabra to spit at him and narrowly avoiding getting turned to stone, and Gohan struggling as he breaks Dabra's sword, there was plenty of chance for him to go SSJ2.

[Rocketman]

Was there? It took him a long time to go SS2 at the tournament, so much so that the crowd started getting bored and yelling at him.

[Fox666]

Not really. It took him a while to transform in Super Saiyan, but he instantly transformed in Super Saiyan 2.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Was there? It took him a long time to go SS2 at the tournament, so much so that the crowd started getting bored and yelling at him.

Beforehand, he was still struggling over whether or not to go SS or why this mysterious guy wanted him to do so. He only seemed to decide that he'd go SS2 around the time he made this comment:

Chapter: 444 (DBZ 250), P3.2
Context: before Gohan becomes a Super Saiyan 2
Gohan: “Well then, I’ll become one, just like you want, though I don’t know why…To top it off, should I go so far as to become a Super Saiyan that has surpassed the Super Saiyan wall?”

Then he almost instantly transformed. It's the anime that drags it out. Although I understand that people would presumably have different interpretations of that scene. It's not exactly clearly shown whether or not Gohan went from base, skipped SS and went right up to SS2, or he went from SS to SS2. Just like Gotenks' SS3 transformation: some think that he went from SS to SS3 (and those lightning sparks were just part of him transforming into SS3), while others think that the lightning sparks was him going to SS2, before culminating in SS3. And some think that Gotenks never had SS2 at all (despite the Daizenshuu saying that he did), and he merely skipped it towards SS3 because he's a Fusion.

And besides, we've had previous moments where characters have taken long times to power up or transform, yet the villain's just stood there and let them (in-universe: either due to arrogance or shock). Gokuu's Kaiouken x3 vs. Vegeta, Freeza's transformations, Gokuu's SS3 vs. Fat Boo, etc. Why should we assume that this moment would be any different, if only to try and twist a plothole or otherwise poor writing into making a lick of sense?

Commence the ritualistic cycle of back-and-forth arguments we've heard all too well.

[Bussani]

But that's my point, Gohan shouldn't have had to realize anything. As I said, Gohan isn't a battle junkie. He learned first hand what happens when you play around with your opponent when he fought Cell seven years ago. Other than stopping Buu's revival, Dabra WAS their goal in the ship. Goku had already made the comment that Dabra was close to Cell in terms of power and the demon was not only Babidi's body guard, the only true obstacle in their mission, but also holding his friends hostage. Gohan should have been smart enough to start the fight at full power before shit can take a turn for the worst.

Maybe, but I suppose it's not always smart to go all out from the beginning. He could have been pacing himself. Or maybe, having already had his Super Saiyan 2 ki stolen once that day, he was wary about giving that much energy to Buu a second time.

Or maybe Toriyama just dropped the ball. I dunno. This one'll stay a mystery until he mentions it in an interview.