Question about strategic uses of "Ki" in the series-

[Hitiro]

I also think that Saiyans are naturally tougher than humans, but it sounds like you're under the impression that creatures will adapt to whatever environment you put them in, which isn't how it works. Evolution is completely random. We only find creatures suited to an environment living in that environment because they were lucky enough to randomly develop traits that work, and because they work, the creatures with those traits thrive and stick around. In other words, if it's possible for a being to develop that can survive in ten times Earth's gravity on planet Plant, such a being could also come to exist on a planet with half of Earth's gravity. Such a trait wouldn't be detrimental to them, so they wouldn't die out. In fact, they'd be so resilient that I see no reason they wouldn't thrive.

Of course, there are other forms of adaptation that have nothing to do with evolution. For instance, if you live in space for a long time, obviously you'll lose muscle and bone mass; if humans went and lived on a planet with slightly more gravity for a couple of generations, the result would probably be people of shorter height and with stronger muscles. This doesn't change your genes, however. It's basically no different from moving to a sunnier place and getting a tan.

I'm not under the impression that all creatures adapt to whatever environment they are put in. In the manga there was no mention that the Saiyans home world wasn't theres in the the first place so I'm going by the logic that the Saiyans naturally evolved on the planet to survive its density. Also evolution is not completely random. The variants of animals and homo-sapiens that are not fit to survive will die out leaving the more adept to breed and therefore the mutations that take place and the generations that follow will cater towards the environment. Evolution will only suit the creatures and races that are actually fit to survive.

[Bussani]

I'm not under the impression that all creatures adapt to whatever environment they are put in.

Okay, my mistake.

Also evolution is not completely random. The variants of animals and homo-sapiens that are not fit to survive will die out leaving the more adept to breed and therefore the mutations that take place and the generations that follow will cater towards the environment. Evolution will only suit the creatures and races that are actually fit to survive.

Yes, but the mutations are random, not driven by external factors. It's true that any race that managed to not die out on a planet with ten times Earth's gravity would have to be capable of living in ten times Earth's gravity (because anything that happened to develop that couldn't live in such an environment never lived long enough to thrive), but they'd be capable of it due to getting lucky, not due to their genes being smart enough to adapt the right way. Genes don't know or care where they, and as such, there's as much chance of a Saiyan-like being developing on planet Plant as there is of them developing anywhere else in the universe. The only difference is that only creatures capable of surviving high gravity would be able to thrive on Plant, whereas somewhere with less gravity could have both creatures that could and creatures that couldn't.

Apart from killing off things that aren't fit to live in it, the environment has no influence over the evolutionary process.

[Hitiro]

I'm not under the impression that all creatures adapt to whatever environment they are put in.

Okay, my mistake.

Also evolution is not completely random. The variants of animals and homo-sapiens that are not fit to survive will die out leaving the more adept to breed and therefore the mutations that take place and the generations that follow will cater towards the environment. Evolution will only suit the creatures and races that are actually fit to survive.

Yes, but the mutations are random, not driven by external factors. It's true that any race that managed to not die out on a planet with ten times Earth's gravity would have to be capable of living in ten times Earth's gravity (because anything that happened to develop that couldn't live in such an environment never lived long enough to thrive), but they'd be capable of it due to getting lucky, not due to their genes being smart enough to adapt the right way. Genes don't know or care where they, and as such, there's as much chance of a Saiyan-like being developing on planet Plant as there is of them developing anywhere else in the universe. The only difference is that only creatures capable of surviving high gravity would be able to thrive on Plant, whereas somewhere with less gravity could have both creatures that could and creatures that couldn't.

Apart from killing off things that aren't fit to live in it, the environment has no influence over the evolutionary process.

Natural selection is really the most fundamental factor in the evolutionary process so while it is the only influence the environment has on the path of the evolutionary process it is really the only one that is needed. Also the statement that both people who aren't physically resilient and people who are physically resilient would both live isn't very accurate. There are other environmental factors that may cause the death of the former gene pool such as other species killing them off from being naturally stronger or other sorts of deaths. If we swap the scenario where Goku got hit by Bulma's car and place Bulma there instead she would have died which kills off her gene pool from being passed on. So while Gravity is a defining factor in this case it isn't the only variable in the environment which forces natural selection into the equation.

[Bussani]

Natural selection is really the most fundamental factor in the evolutionary process so while it is the only influence the environment has on the path of the evolutionary process it is really the only one that is needed. Also the statement that both people who aren't physically resilient and people who are physically resilient would both live isn't very accurate. There are other environmental factors that may cause the death of the former gene pool such as other species killing them off from being naturally stronger or other sorts of deaths. If we swap the scenario where Goku got hit by Bulma's car and place Bulma there instead she would have died which kills off her gene pool from being passed on. So while Gravity is a defining factor in this case it isn't the only variable in the environment which forces natural selection into the equation.

That's basically what I said: Saiyans could just as easily have developed, survived, and thrived on any other planet. A high gravity environment only ensures that they'd be one of the only things to thrive in that particular place. You can't really say that the high gravity caused their genes to be the way they are.

[Hitiro]

Natural selection is really the most fundamental factor in the evolutionary process so while it is the only influence the environment has on the path of the evolutionary process it is really the only one that is needed. Also the statement that both people who aren't physically resilient and people who are physically resilient would both live isn't very accurate. There are other environmental factors that may cause the death of the former gene pool such as other species killing them off from being naturally stronger or other sorts of deaths. If we swap the scenario where Goku got hit by Bulma's car and place Bulma there instead she would have died which kills off her gene pool from being passed on. So while Gravity is a defining factor in this case it isn't the only variable in the environment which forces natural selection into the equation.

That's basically what I said: Saiyans could just as easily have developed, survived, and thrived on any other planet. A high gravity environment only ensures that they'd be one of the only things to thrive in that particular place. You can't really say that the high gravity caused their genes to be the way they are.

But while they could have developed and survived on other planets, other races, while not being as adept to surviving, can easily dilute their gene pool. On planet Vegeta there is a guarantee that their gene pool will be dominant but on a planet like Earth their genes would be diluted through the generations. If we look at how our race started off we were much more physically resilient to the environment. And we were also much stronger, but over so many generations as the environment became much easier to live in the gene pools which aren't as resilient haven't died off so we have naturally become weaker compared to our cavemen counterparts.

Edit: Sloppily written, I haven't had much sleep lately, my bad. x.x

[Bussani]

Not sloppily written at all--not after any edit you did, anyway.

Good point, and I guess I'll have to concede there. If we're talking about the individual genes, then yes, they can appear pretty much anywhere, but making sure all of these genes end up in one person or group of people is another matter. It's certainly not impossible, even in an environment like Earth's, but removing any room for error does change the likelihood.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Well, this is where the specific media you're talking about and each person's individual canon becomes important. That statement may be true for the anime, but for the people who only include the manga in their canon, nothing contradicts the idea that the Saiyan's were always from Planet Vegeta, meaning no Planet Saiya or Tsufurians in their history.

Shit, I always forget that it's anime only that Saiyans are not from Planet Plant/Vegeta...

[012yArthur0]

I agree with the second theory. And based about somethings, I also may say.

When you not pay attention, your KI is set on a determined level, and this level seems to increase when you train.(Based on Vegeta and Krillin Manga), so, when you not ready, you can take a critical hit and die. However, if you ridiculously strong, your "carefree" Ki can just do the job for you, to the point of standing still and be unharmed, like a boss.