Power comparison between Goten and Gohan

[hleV]

It's not about muscles but ki. There's no such thing IRL, so you can't just go and say that a stronger Saiyan (ki-wise) can't produce a stronger child (ki-wise).

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Not necessarily. Goten started off with greater power because he was conceived by a much stronger Goku, that doesn't necessarily mean his power growth surpasses Gohan's. And Goten was 7 in the Boo arc.

Not sure why people bring this up every now and then. That really isn't how genetics work, at all.

Genetics work like that with Saiyans though. GT Perfect Files said that.

[Fox666]

Not sure why people bring this up every now and then. That really isn't how genetics work, at all. I know someone is going to mention Toriyama's comment with the recessive tail gene thing, but for this particular instance I don't see anything at all implying that biology is magically warped there.

The principles of genetics aren't such a big deal. I mean, we see people literally with their spinal cord vaporized who can still move. Does that mean that Vegeta did not asked Dende to heal him and he died before fighting Freeza? If we can let that pass, we should be able to ignore the genetics thing.

[caejones]

Goten doesn't have a tail. Whether it was removed early on, or he was simply born without it, that's a notable detail, is it not?

Also, let's throw real world science into the mix. It seems that what happens during pregnancy tends to cause all sorts of side-effects on the child. Comparing ChiChi's condition while pregnant with Gohan Vs. Pregnant with Goten, it seems highly likely that she was under much more stress with Goten.

Now, I will make a list of noted differences between Goten and Gohan, and point out what it seems like they could mean.

• Goten achieved the SSJ transformation at a younger age than Gohan, despite lacking Gohan's training, combat experience and Saichoro power up.
• Goten's environment contained much more powerful people than Gohan's.
• Goten is never shown with a tail, while Gohan's tail is shown growing back in his fifth year (even later if you buy Movie5). However, we aren't given enough time with Goten to say if the tail was removed through special means, is constantly removed, or simply never grew to begin with. Word from Toriyama and databooks imply that Goten was born without a tail. (Notice: we never see anyone attain SSJ and have a tail at the same time, and Goku, Vegeta and Gohan all make their giant power gains while tailless regardless of SSJ.)
• Ki Conservation hypothesis: going out on a limb here, but when powerful people die, where does their ki go? The biggest power gains in the series seem to happen after someone powerful dies. (Must compare to more specific evidence at some point...).
• Gohan was raised in a stable, education-based household until the age of four. Most of the pressure on him to become a powerful fighter came from outside the family unit, and was discouraged by ChiChi; all of his power gains were need-based. We know little of Goten's environment, other than it was apparently considerably more relaxed, didn't actively discourage his training, and he had more accepted social insentive to become stronger. He had no apparent need for his power for a much longer time than Gohan.
• It isn't a certainty, but it seems much more likely that ChiChi was much more emotionally healthy while pregnant with Gohan, while Goten's pregnancy was surrounded with a great deal of stress (Will Gohan succeed at his education? Will family members die dealing with Gero's creations? Ah, right, one of them did. Etc). Real world science seems to have concluded that chemical differences in the mother during pregnancy have an influence on the child, and the significantly different stress levels implied here would definitely constitute chemical differences.
• Goku was much stronger when Goten was conceived than when Gohan was conceived. This would have an effect if Dragonball genetics are significantly different from real world genetics, or if the transmission of ki is not inherently genetic.

My conclusion, then:
- There is enough evidence that doesn't require altered genetics to explain Goten's earlier transformation. Goku being SSJ at the time of Goten's conception is far from the only difference, though it can play into things without requiring that DB genetics are something their own.


inB4 "Toriyama said tails are recessive":
Genetics are complicated. A model where tails are recessive, Gohan still works, and DB genetics are still consistent compared to real world genetics is pretty straightforward, if two genes are involved in the expression of tails rather than just one.

Honestly, Toriyama's forgetfulness and lack of scientific savvie makes saiyan biology pretty dang interesting. But finding a scientist to analyze the evidence?

[Piccolo Daimao]

Saiyan biology is weird (explains Chi-Chi not showing in the Cell arc and perhaps an Earthling-comparatively short pregnancy), and I subscribe to the "Super Saiyan Sperm" theory.

-At first, Saiyans draw their latent power from the Ozaru, but after they hit a certain level of power, they begin drawing power from Super Saiyan instead. So once that happens, the evolutionary need for tails and Oozaru disappears, since they’re heading towards reaching Super Saiyan. This is the reason why Son Goten and Trunks were born without tails, because they’d already drawn out all their power from Super Saiyan without having to train for it.

-Goten and Trunks are Full-Power Super Saiyan, as they were naturally born with Super Saiyan. However, because they don’t have the kind of absolute control as Goku and Gohan did through training, they can’t suppress their ki down to zero in Super Saiyan.

-Goten and Trunks have dormant power on par with Gohan, who has dormant power greater than Goku, who has dormant power slightly greater than Vegeta.

If Goten and Trunks actually trained hard enough throughout their lives (as in, into adulthood rather than slacking off like they did once they became teenagers), they could probably surpass Gohan and reach SS3 individually quicker than Gokuu and Vegeta*.

*I believe that Vegeta achieved SS3 by the time of his final battle with Gokuu in DBO (this part of the game's backstory, along with some others, I take as manga canon), after 27 years of training with the knowledge of the form. Gokuu had the benefit of afterlife training and mentioned that he wasn't used to it yet, so by the time he fought Fat Boo, he must've had it only recently, so 7 years for him. I'd say Goten and Trunks could probably reach it in about half the time Vegeta needed to. So let's say, 13 years for Goten and 12 years for Trunks. If they'd trained consistently into adulthood, they'd both got it by Age 787, three years after the 25th TB when they're 20 and 21 respectively.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

-Goten and Trunks are Full-Power Super Saiyan, as they were naturally born with Super Saiyan. However, because they don’t have the kind of absolute control as Goku and Gohan did through training, they can’t suppress their ki down to zero in Super Saiyan.

I have to disagree on that. While I do believe that Goten & Trunks (along with Future Trunks & Vegeta) are Super Saiyan Full-Power, I disagree that they are because they were born with the ability to turn Super Saiyan. If that was the case, Future Trunks would be SSJ Full-Power from the beginning too, but clearly he wasn't, until the Cell Games.

[Piccolo Daimao]

-Goten and Trunks are Full-Power Super Saiyan, as they were naturally born with Super Saiyan. However, because they don’t have the kind of absolute control as Goku and Gohan did through training, they can’t suppress their ki down to zero in Super Saiyan.

I have to disagree on that. While I do believe that Goten & Trunks (along with Future Trunks & Vegeta) are Super Saiyan Full-Power, I disagree that they are because they were born with the ability to turn Super Saiyan. If that was the case, Future Trunks would be SSJ Full-Power from the beginning too, but clearly he wasn't, until the Cell Games.

I could argue that present Trunks was concieved after Vegeta had Super Saiyan, while future Trunks was concieved before Vegeta did (or he never reached it before his death at all). What I meant was, therefore, the former's Super Saiyan ability came to him earlier and more naturally because of a combination of already laying dormant in his blood (although I guess you could say that about all Saiyans with and/or without a tail, but whatever), requiring a weaker rage catalyst, kids being more susceptible to rage than adults, etc.

[Super Vegetto]

Well, I think everybody noticed something on the Buu arc and Freeza Arc.

Goten, as a 6 year old boy, could go super Saiyan, and was strong enough to train togheter with Gohan Super Saiyan. While Gohan, was struggling with the others Z-Fighters to keep up with freeza, and around same age as Goten.

EDIT: However, it can be noticed that Goten knew the existence of Super Saiyan, so it could be easier for him to archieve that level, while Gohan didn't had a concrete proof of it until Krillin died and Goku got mad.

So, this can conclude that Goten can easily surpass Gohan in power?

I think its because Goku and Vegeta probably achived SSJ form, so thats why Goten and Trunks never even had a tail.

Tail is for lets say class of saiyans that dont have SSJ blood since birth. Also Kid Trunks is stronger than Future Trunks in that time because its probably plot purpouse and they neaded make them strong from such young age.

But they cant surpass Gohans with dorment power unlocked.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I could argue that present Trunks was concieved after Vegeta had Super Saiyan, while future Trunks was concieved before Vegeta did (or he never reached it before his death at all).

Who said that the parent needs to be Super Saiyan for the kid to be born with the ability to turn Super Saiyan? If that was the case, Bra & Pan in the end o Z should be able to Super Saiyan 2. The power the parent has matters, not the forms. Sure, maybe Vegeta became Super Saiyan later, since maybe he wasn't training so hard for the Artificial Humans, but then again it's Vegeta, he was obsessed with the idea to surpass Goku.

[NANLIT]

Perhaps it had to do with Goku dying from the heart disease. If Goku died much sooner in the manga than History of Trunks implied, then that would hurt Vegeta. Sure he'd still train, but he wouldn't train as hard as his drive would have been less because he thought he was the strongest as far as he knew and his rival and drive to get stronger could no longer fight him. Plus it might have hurt Vegeta that Goku died from a disease rather than in battle; that might have been insulting to Vegeta's pride as well. All in all, I wouldn't be surprised if Vegeta had symptoms of deprssion for a time after Goku's death in the original timeline now that I think about it.

[Akira]

The conception "theory" is flawed, has no basis in the series in the way of direct or indirect implication, and is basically just an old fan myth that just can not seem to ever die. I'd just like to point some things out that seem like they ought to be considered. First is the strong possibility that Vegeta conceived Trunks before becoming a Super Saiyan. Second, counter arguments such as "This is dragon world, so real world concepts do not apply" sounds good, but unless it is specifically stated, I would think that the default assuming that they do apply is a more realistic thought process than that they don't. By that logic, you can pretty much make any far out assumption and defend it with that one statement. Third, there is already a pre-set pattern for these things set by Gohan, which I assume would remain the same for any other Saiyan/Human hybrids.

So, let's look at this from a different perspective. Let's look at Gohan as the model, and explain it in-universe based on that. What do we know about Gohan, his parentage, and what has been shown to be true in the series leading up to Goten's appearance?

To become a Super Saiyan, we know a saiyan needs to reach a certain battle power coupled with extreme emotional rage. Look at Goku, although a full blooded saiyan, he exhibited a certain rage power increase that manifested as his tail regrowing when under dire circumstances. Or when Krillin was killed by Tambourine, and his hair spiked up like no other point in early DB. (See DB Vol. 12, Page 52, bottom panel and page 53, top panel) His hair spiked straight up and his pupils even changed briefly. His anger was there, but coming off a tournament final, and skipping his meal, his power was not there, and may have not been high enough yet to trigger the transformation anyway. Goku fought against the strongest the earth had to offer, and based on who he was fighting, coupled with Saiyan nature to increase from such battles, he made great strides. Chi chi also had rage, cutting the head off of a tyrannosaurus, and becoming deadly as a human child when put into life or death situations. She was also an accomplished martial artist when she and Goku got married.

The same traits and potential would have been passed to Goten, but not any more or any less than what was passed to Gohan. What made Gohan so powerful so early on? Being a hybrid helped, but only so much. Gohan started out fighting Piccolo as a sparing partner, a person who, before the arrival of Raditz, was the single greatest threat on the earth. If you consider the fact that Goku himself had been slacking since the 23rd budokai, not to mention that he was dead at the time, Gohan was fighting the strongest fighter on the planet right off the bat. So, in a few short months, he was at a level of power at the age of 5 that his father did not reach until the age of 15, when Goku fought Piccolo for the first time. By the time the Saiyans arrived, Gohan was already beyond 23rd Budokai battle power range.

At the Cell Game, Goku mentions that Gohan's power increases have been astounding, and that he'd been keeping up with the best of them his whole life. Stronger opponents = faster saiyan power growth, a constant throughout the series. A second constant is individual training vs. training with a partner. There are many examples of this. Goku training with Mr. Popo, Gohan with Piccolo, Goku and Piccolo for the Androids, and Goku and Gohan for the Cell Game. One day/year in the Time room and Goku and Gohan reached a whole new plateau of power as Super Saiyans that still surpassed anything that Vegeta, Trunks or Piccolo were able to do with two days/years each in the room.

So, the series is clear with two things for in-universe explanation. First, stronger opponents = faster saiyan power growth, and second, training with a powerful partner is faster and better than training alone. Okay, so how do these things apply to young Super Saiyans in the Buu arc?

Goten and Trunks were both hybrids, check. Trained in martial arts by strong people, check. Goten may be a stretch here because it was his mother who trained him in the basics of fighting, but we can't discount Gohan being around. Even just "playing" with Gohan would be rougher than anything else on earth. We don't pick up on the story until Gohan starts high school and is training for the budokai. We cannot assume that the two brothers have had little to no interaction prior to this. Look at the ending to Movie 11, which shows a younger teen Gohan playing with his little brother. Just because Gohan is suprised by Goten's Super Saiyan and strength advances once he left for high school doesn't mean they weren't out and about playing rough prior to that.

Goten and Trunks fought each other. In their minds they were just playing, rough housing, whatever, but they were building up their strength at an incredible rate. Two saiyans, with incredible potential, fighting probably to the point of exhaustion, then being called for supper or whatever, they probably racked up minuscule zenkais at a rapid pace.

If you really think about it, it isn't that far fetched to realize all the conditions were there for them to be Super Saiyans. Being around the strongest on earth as very young children, having each other as both a strong opponent and sparring partner, hybrid potential, and a child's temper tantrum would be the equivalent emotional outburst of an adult's full blown rage.

They weren't born Super Saiyans, they didn't become Super Saiyans earlier because of their fathers (maybe) being capable of it at time of conception, they simply were stupid lucky to have all of the criteria met, and things work out that enabled such advancement to happen so early for them.

Plot device or not, it isn't unbelievable in-universe. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on things, but I just never could believe the conception theory when there was no basis for it anywhere else in the series. Otherwise, Bra should be capable of Super Saiyan at birth too, right? Or Pan, she should be like a Mini-Ultimate Gohan, right? Kai Unlocked Potential would be passed at time of conception, right? Okay, well, I've said my piece, dropped my two cents, I'm done for now.

[caejones]

Thanks, Akira. Otherwise I would have just sighed and said "Super saiyan sperm is bullshit".
Or maybe researchers in to Dragonworld evolution are just going through the phases that researchers into real world evolution went through.

SSJ sperm makes sense under one of two conditions, both of which are given less weight than alternative explanations courtesy Ockam's Raizor (Which I don't know how to spell. Boo):
- Either acquired traits are transmitted to offspring in dragonworld (Automatically false: Gohan was born with a tail after Goku's was permanently removed)
- Or SSJ results in a mutation, in gametes at least.

The absolute only explanation for SSJ being a mutation is Goten and Trunks being SSJ so young. So it's kind of a circular argument.

The SSJ sperm hypothesis seems to be ignoring the numerous differences between Gohan's environment and Goten/Trunks'. Even if we don't lean on the "stronger sparring partners" idea (which, btw, applies to lots and lots of things irl, not just fighting ability), there are very obviously differences.

Let me put this another way:

Kamehameha is one of the most easily learned-by-sight techniques in the series. Goku learns it after watching Roshi perform it once. Krillin and Yamcha work on it after watching Goku and Roshi use it several times. Ten picks it up after watching Yamcha use it. Buu picks it up after watching Goku use it.
... It took Roshi, the inventor of the technique, 50 years to master it.

Was Roshi just pathetic compared to all of these people?

RL example:
The idea of a machine for computation goes back a few centuries. It took most of the twentieth century to get to tiny machines that are accessible to the average user. Nowadays, random teens can learn how to build computers in no time. Does this mean that everyone that's tried to develop or work with computers before 1980 were just dumber?

Vegeta and Gohan attained SSJ after seeing how Goku did it.
Goten and Trunks attained SSJ after being born into an environment where the technique had already been mastered.

Is that proof of anything? No.
But I get the feeling that someone trained in Bayesian reasoning would conclude that the probability of SSJ sperm is much lower than the probability of environmental factors being to blame.

* I am not trained in bayesian reasoning.

[Piccolo Daimao]

The conception "theory" is flawed, has no basis in the series in the way of direct or indirect implication, and is basically just an old fan myth that just can not seem to ever die. I'd just like to point some things out that seem like they ought to be considered. First is the strong possibility that Vegeta conceived Trunks before becoming a Super Saiyan. Second, counter arguments such as "This is dragon world, so real world concepts do not apply" sounds good, but unless it is specifically stated, I would think that the default assuming that they do apply is a more realistic thought process than that they don't. By that logic, you can pretty much make any far out assumption and defend it with that one statement. Third, there is already a pre-set pattern for these things set by Gohan, which I assume would remain the same for any other Saiyan/Human hybrids.

So, let's look at this from a different perspective. Let's look at Gohan as the model, and explain it in-universe based on that. What do we know about Gohan, his parentage, and what has been shown to be true in the series leading up to Goten's appearance?

To become a Super Saiyan, we know a saiyan needs to reach a certain battle power coupled with extreme emotional rage. Look at Goku, although a full blooded saiyan, he exhibited a certain rage power increase that manifested as his tail regrowing when under dire circumstances. Or when Krillin was killed by Tambourine, and his hair spiked up like no other point in early DB. (See DB Vol. 12, Page 52, bottom panel and page 53, top panel) His hair spiked straight up and his pupils even changed briefly. His anger was there, but coming off a tournament final, and skipping his meal, his power was not there, and may have not been high enough yet to trigger the transformation anyway. Goku fought against the strongest the earth had to offer, and based on who he was fighting, coupled with Saiyan nature to increase from such battles, he made great strides. Chi chi also had rage, cutting the head off of a tyrannosaurus, and becoming deadly as a human child when put into life or death situations. She was also an accomplished martial artist when she and Goku got married.

The same traits and potential would have been passed to Goten, but not any more or any less than what was passed to Gohan. What made Gohan so powerful so early on? Being a hybrid helped, but only so much. Gohan started out fighting Piccolo as a sparing partner, a person who, before the arrival of Raditz, was the single greatest threat on the earth. If you consider the fact that Goku himself had been slacking since the 23rd budokai, not to mention that he was dead at the time, Gohan was fighting the strongest fighter on the planet right off the bat. So, in a few short months, he was at a level of power at the age of 5 that his father did not reach until the age of 15, when Goku fought Piccolo for the first time. By the time the Saiyans arrived, Gohan was already beyond 23rd Budokai battle power range.

At the Cell Game, Goku mentions that Gohan's power increases have been astounding, and that he'd been keeping up with the best of them his whole life. Stronger opponents = faster saiyan power growth, a constant throughout the series. A second constant is individual training vs. training with a partner. There are many examples of this. Goku training with Mr. Popo, Gohan with Piccolo, Goku and Piccolo for the Androids, and Goku and Gohan for the Cell Game. One day/year in the Time room and Goku and Gohan reached a whole new plateau of power as Super Saiyans that still surpassed anything that Vegeta, Trunks or Piccolo were able to do with two days/years each in the room.

So, the series is clear with two things for in-universe explanation. First, stronger opponents = faster saiyan power growth, and second, training with a powerful partner is faster and better than training alone. Okay, so how do these things apply to young Super Saiyans in the Buu arc?

Goten and Trunks were both hybrids, check. Trained in martial arts by strong people, check. Goten may be a stretch here because it was his mother who trained him in the basics of fighting, but we can't discount Gohan being around. Even just "playing" with Gohan would be rougher than anything else on earth. We don't pick up on the story until Gohan starts high school and is training for the budokai. We cannot assume that the two brothers have had little to no interaction prior to this. Look at the ending to Movie 11, which shows a younger teen Gohan playing with his little brother. Just because Gohan is suprised by Goten's Super Saiyan and strength advances once he left for high school doesn't mean they weren't out and about playing rough prior to that.

Goten and Trunks fought each other. In their minds they were just playing, rough housing, whatever, but they were building up their strength at an incredible rate. Two saiyans, with incredible potential, fighting probably to the point of exhaustion, then being called for supper or whatever, they probably racked up minuscule zenkais at a rapid pace.

If you really think about it, it isn't that far fetched to realize all the conditions were there for them to be Super Saiyans. Being around the strongest on earth as very young children, having each other as both a strong opponent and sparring partner, hybrid potential, and a child's temper tantrum would be the equivalent emotional outburst of an adult's full blown rage.

They weren't born Super Saiyans, they didn't become Super Saiyans earlier because of their fathers (maybe) being capable of it at time of conception, they simply were stupid lucky to have all of the criteria met, and things work out that enabled such advancement to happen so early for them.

Plot device or not, it isn't unbelievable in-universe. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on things, but I just never could believe the conception theory when there was no basis for it anywhere else in the series. Otherwise, Bra should be capable of Super Saiyan at birth too, right? Or Pan, she should be like a Mini-Ultimate Gohan, right? Kai Unlocked Potential would be passed at time of conception, right? Okay, well, I've said my piece, dropped my two cents, I'm done for now.

You've persuaded me, so I think I'll subscribe to your theory now.

[Bussani]

To be honest, Akira's explanation is more or less what I've thought for a while now, though maybe with a few differences. From the way the manga's dialogue is all worded, I got the impression that Gohan was already considered to be stronger than everyone else--he just couldn't control his power at will. Piccolo didn't need to have him build his power up as much because he already had so much he wasn't using yet.

Chapter: 203 (DBZ , P4.1, P8.3, P9.4
Context: Gohan gets extremely mad as Raditz torments Goku, powering up, but this power goes away quickly
Raditz: “Ba…ba…battle power 1,307?! [ ] N... now his battle power is only 1. It... it completely changes with his em... emotions…[ ] Only a child?! You’re joking! The brat has a higher battle power than you! I’ll kill him now, while he still doesn’t know how to use it properly…!”

Chapter: 206 (DBZ 12), P13.1
Piccolo: “Your power bursts loose only when your emotions are at their peak…And then only for an instant. You can’t win like that. But I will beat into you the proper way to fight. I will make you the mightiest of warriors! Understand?”

This power he was born with was always attributed to him being a Saiyan-Human hybrid, but I think the fact that he can't bring it out at will has a lot to do with his personality. He's reserved, so his ki reflects that--until he snaps and loses his reason, at which point his ki reflects that. Goten, on the other hand, is an energetic, hyperactive little thing, so it makes sense to me that the hybrid power he was born with would be more on the surface than Gohan's was. Throw everything else mentioned on top of that and you can easily explain his strength without resorting to "Super Saiyan sperm", in my opinion.

That said, like I already wrote in a previous post, Cell obviously gets something from the cells collected to make him. He has the "same ki" as several different people when he initially powers up, and Piccolo makes a comment like, "No wonder your Kamehameha was that weak, if you only have Goku's cells from back then." The idea of Super Saiyan sperm might not be completely baseless if you take this sort of thing into account. Maybe Dragon Ball genetics really does work that way. On the other hand, maybe ki isn't something in the genes, per se, but can still be passed on somehow--perhaps in a more spiritual way.

[012yArthur0]

Quick question: Why Gohan "hybrid" Trait is actually vantageous? Shouldn't a pure Saiyan be stronger than a hybrid?

[caejones]

Of course pure saiyans would be stronger, if you're Vegeta or Hitler *. (Or Toei, apparently).
One of the editorials on Daizex from many years ago argued that there were some somewhat subtle anti-racist ideas in DBZ (I know, the blackface makes that hard to believe), having something to do with Toriyama being from a lower class than some of his employers.
Though, knowing Toriyama, I have to doubt any such messages were conscious. But I definitely see the contrast (Toriyama favors half-breeds, Toei favors pure-blooded saiyans).

(Ok, Hitler favoring pure-blooded saiyans might be a bit of an error. He seemed pretty happy with Goten and Trunks in Movie12, after all. )

* I wasn't calling anyone Hitler. Really... :O

[Bussani]

Quick question: Why Gohan "hybrid" Trait is actually vantageous? Shouldn't a pure Saiyan be stronger than a hybrid?

Genetics isn't always as straight forward as you might be thinking. As an example, on average, a tiger is bigger than a lion, yet a liger (hybrid of a lion and tiger) is much bigger than a tiger. You'd think a mix of the two would fall somewhere in the middle, but traits don't always turn out that way. Perhaps human blood has something that Saiyan blood is lacking--something that isn't as obvious, but becomes more apparent when coupled with Saiyan blood. Heck, I know the humans get left in the dust by the Saiyans eventually, but they do an incredible job of keeping up all the same, often making even better progress than Goku did under the same masters, so I wouldn't call human genetics worthless.

[012yArthur0]

Quick question: Why Gohan "hybrid" Trait is actually vantageous? Shouldn't a pure Saiyan be stronger than a hybrid?

Genetics isn't always as straight forward as you might be thinking. As an example, on average, a tiger is bigger than a lion, yet a liger (hybrid of a lion and tiger) is much bigger than a tiger. You'd think a mix of the two would fall somewhere in the middle, but traits don't always turn out that way. Perhaps human blood has something that Saiyan blood is lacking--something that isn't as obvious, but becomes more apparent when coupled with Saiyan blood. Heck, I know the humans get left in the dust by the Saiyans eventually, but they do an incredible job of keeping up all the same, often making even better progress than Goku did under the same masters, so I wouldn't call human genetics worthless.

So you mean that Humans trait is the easy adaption for the situations? Well, that's a good point.

[soulnova]

Goku was much stronger when Goten was conceived than when Gohan was conceived. This would have an effect if Dragonball genetics are significantly different from real world genetics, or if the transmission of ki is not inherently genetic.

This theory would give Bra the potential of being the strongest of all half-saiyans. Nice.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Quick question: Why Gohan "hybrid" Trait is actually vantageous? Shouldn't a pure Saiyan be stronger than a hybrid?

Genetics isn't always as straight forward as you might be thinking. As an example, on average, a tiger is bigger than a lion, yet a liger (hybrid of a lion and tiger) is much bigger than a tiger. You'd think a mix of the two would fall somewhere in the middle, but traits don't always turn out that way. Perhaps human blood has something that Saiyan blood is lacking--something that isn't as obvious, but becomes more apparent when coupled with Saiyan blood. Heck, I know the humans get left in the dust by the Saiyans eventually, but they do an incredible job of keeping up all the same, often making even better progress than Goku did under the same masters, so I wouldn't call human genetics worthless.

Well, biologically, Saiyans and Earthlings are pretty damn similar. Maybe they have some kind of history together...?