How accurate is the funi dub of Kai?

[dbboxkaifan]

And stop claiming that Chiaotzu is wrong.

Chiatzu is wrong, the original name of the character is Chaozu. Just like Tien.

[Hades]

I'd say that most of the (few) problems in the Kai dub can be summed up as "old habits dying hard".

[The Time Traveller]

It's about 85% faithful I'd say, not just because of the minor script changes, I don't actually mind those for Kai, but there's mischaracterisation, some characters simply have the wrong voice and there's names and pronunciations from the old dub used.

Compared to Z, GT and even DB it's a fantastic dub, not perfect but if it was perfect there'd be nothing to complain about! I like it, at least.

[Puto]

And stop claiming that Chiaotzu is wrong.

Chiatzu is wrong, the original name of the character is Chaozu. Just like Tien.

Nope, it's a perfectly valid reading of the kanji. Chiaotzu is to Chaozu as Shen Long is to Shenron.

[dbboxkaifan]

Hm, you guys don't really get it, on the Original Japanese Audio he's named Chaozu not anything else.

I don't really see the point of American dubs always changing names to translated versions, or rewriting the entire script for their audience. Keep as originally intended, jeez.

[VegettoEX]

Hm, you guys don't really get it, on the Original Japanese Audio he's named Chaozu not anything else.

You're actually the one who's totally missing out on the explanation. I don't know if it's because English isn't your native language, but yeah, you're unfortunately oblivious to the name origin and trying to explain things to other people incorrectly .

In the original Japanese script (manga) and spoken-aloud audio (TV), he's 餃子... and specifically, named with the original Chinese (*not* Japanese) food in mind.

If he were intended to be spoken with the Japanese reading of the name, his name would be "Gyoza". This, in fact, is one of the jokes that comes into play when the Tenka-ichi Budokai announcer reads off some names that he doesn't know the etymology of (which is how we also get "Magogosora" for "Son Goku").

But his name's not "Gyoza", it's... well, 餃子. How do you pronounce that, though?

Well, the furigana atop the kanji provided by Toriyama indicate that -- IN JAPANESE -- their approximate pronunciation would "chaozu".

Thing is, it's not a Japanese name -- it's a Chinese name.

The exact same type of situation comes up with the names of the Dragon Balls and the evil dragons in DBGT. The four-star ball is written with the Chinese characters 四星球. The Chinese reading of that is Si Xing Qiu. The furigana provided atop it, in order to give a pronunciation that can actually work within the phoenetics of Japanese, is suushinchuu. Same thing goes with the dragons, where the one-star dragon is written with characters that read Yi Xing Long in Chinese, but the Japanese approximation is given as Ii-Shinron.

This all wraps back around to Chaozu/Chiaotzu/Jiǎozi/Gyoza.

If his name is written in Chinese, and you're speaking English, why would you read it or give it a spelling that approximates the Japanese pronunciation? I've seen it labeled as this recently, and I somewhat agree -- approximating 餃子 as "Chaozu" for "Engilsh" speak is similar to approximating トランクス as "Torankusu" for "English" speak.

There's a REALLY good case, then, for writing the character's name as "Jiǎozi", or in lieu of that, "Chiaotzu" (a spelling that approximates the Chinese pronunciation). You can still get a correct pronunciation from them, and it's adapting his actual Chinese name instead of taking an unnecessary step and approximating the Japanese name that itself is just approximating the Chinese name -- you're playing a silly game of telephone just to say his name.

(Hopefully I got that all down pretty OK... happy to let someone else jump in and clarity or expand if necessary!)

[TheBlackPaladin]

Well technically, if we're going by what was said in the original Japanese audio, Trunks should be Torahnksu, Vegeta should be Beijita, and Freeza should be Furiza. If we're going to pronounce names as literally as they were in the Japanese version, those would be the best choices to make. However, the reason we don't do that is because we have romanized the names into English differently to get the mangaka's (Toryiama's, in this case) point across more clearly. This can be difficult to do given how big a fan Toriyama is of puns and wordplay jokes, and indeed some places romanize names differently for that very reason. The Spanish dub, for example, calls Freeza "Freezer." That's not necessarily incorrect, it's just another way of romanizing the name, and in some ways that fits in more effectively with Toriyama's naming system (as shown through Freeza's family, his brother Coola/Cooler and his father King Cold). I think what we've been trying to say is that, with regard to Chaozu, Chiaotzu isn't a changed name so much as it is a choice in how the name was romanized into English.

As far as American dubs "always changing names to translated versions," or "rewriting the entire script"...well, firstly, they don't always do that. Secondly, technically speaking, to make a dub at all is to rewrite the script, because it's being written in a different language. To a degree, even translation is an art of interpretation, as Kanzenshuu demonstrated in this great article on fansubs. For the sake of allowing the actors to give the best performance possible, it helps to have the lines rephrased--not rewritten--to fit the lip flaps more naturally. Otherwise, they have to deliver their lines in really weird ways in order to fit the lip movements, and the acting suffers. There's no point in making the acting suffer in a dub, where the idea is to emulate the experience of watching a show rather than reading it. If people want a super-literal, word-for-word translation, there's always the subtitled version for that. Dubs that are too literal suffer in the acting department. Feel free to watch the uncut 4Kids English dub of "Yu-Gi-Oh" if you want an example of overly-literal writing that leads to instances of awkward acting.

[matt0044]

Hm, you guys don't really get it, on the Original Japanese Audio he's named Chaozu not anything else.

I don't really see the point of American dubs always changing names to translated versions, or rewriting the entire script for their audience. Keep as originally intended, jeez.

Well, FUNi learned their lesson as time went on that the more true an English dub is to the original, the better it will be received. Not just with Kai compared to DBZ but with every dub they've released over the past ten or so years.

And TheBlackPaladin summed things up better than I could have as usual.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Personally, I think, in terms of the voices, the problem was more to do with the direction than the casting. I think that Vollmer would’ve made a good Blooma if they didn’t tell her to make her sound all obnoxiously Valley Girl-like, but, IIRC, I’d recently watched the part in DBZ Movie #13 when she’s talking with Tapion at night and encouraging him to tell his story, and she sound very natural and endearing.

Same with Cynthia Cranz’ Chi-Chi. Yes, they flanderized her even more than the anime, but if they could just get her to sound more smoother and less domineering all the time, then she’d be good. Of course, there may still be the problem of them slipping back into their old performances, but if they can get a cap on that, then it’d be fine.

However, I don’t believe Young could ever make a good Freeza, because isn’t she more suited for old women roles? Also, I just think a man could probably nail Freeza’s role better, as we heard with Chris Ayres, who made Freeza sound like male with a touch of androgyny, yet suitably aristocratic. Schemmel’s Gokuu improved too, although I think he could afford to pass it onto someone else that can portray the lighter sides of his character better, because he’s still not quite there.

[matt0044]

Personally, I think, in terms of the voices, the problem was more to do with the direction than the casting. I think that Vollmer would’ve made a good Blooma if they didn’t tell her to make her sound all obnoxiously Valley Girl-like, but, IIRC, I’d recently watched the part in DBZ Movie #13 when she’s talking with Tapion at night and encouraging him to tell his story, and she sound very natural and endearing.

Same with Cynthia Cranz’ Chi-Chi. Yes, they flanderized her even more than the anime, but if they could just get her to sound more smoother and less domineering all the time, then she’d be good. Of course, there may still be the problem of them slipping back into their old performances, but if they can get a cap on that, then it’d be fine.

However, I don’t believe Young could ever make a good Freeza, because isn’t she more suited for old women roles? Also, I just think a man could probably nail Freeza’s role better, as we heard with Chris Ayres, who made Freeza sound like male with a touch of androgyny, yet suitably aristocratic. Schemmel’s Gokuu improved too, although I think he could afford to pass it onto someone else that can portray the lighter sides of his character better, because he’s still not quite there.

Honestly, Chi Chi may sound more annoying but at the same time I can't help but find Cranz's performance hilariously hysterical. You can really tell that she's into the role and having a blast.

Monica Rial as Bulma was honestly spot on. While Vollmer was better in Movie 13, Rial was a good stand in for her and really brought the character to life. Her bitchiness, her caring side and vivacious character were portrayed spot on.

Sean sort of gives Goku a voice that fits his age and is able to show him as a man child. He's no Masako Nozawa but I honestly don't think her voice would sound good in fluent English. I just can't imagine it being properly emulated.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Honestly, Chi Chi may sound more annoying but at the same time I can't help but find Cranz's performance hilariously hysterical. You can really tell that she's into the role and having a blast.

Yeah, admittedly, that's true. It's too bad that they couldn't get her to nail the other parts of her character.

Monica Rial as Bulma was honestly spot on. While Vollmer was better in Movie 13, Rial was a good stand in for her and really brought the character to life. Her bitchiness, her caring side and vivacious character were portrayed spot on.

Sean sort of gives Goku a voice that fits his age and is able to show him as a man child. He's no Masako Nozawa but I honestly don't think her voice would sound good in fluent English. I just can't imagine it being properly emulated.

Yep, I like Monica Rial as Blooma. Best English dub Blooma we've had.

Schemmel's Gokuu is alright, and I never had any real problem with him (even after I saw the Japanese version and knew about the innocent side of his character), but I think Kelamis was closer to Nozawa and, while that may not be the overarching aim (since it'd be like lightning in a bottle to somehow get an English equivalent of Nozawa that actually sounds good), the voice in particular was more appropriate.

Sadly, I can't say the same for his performance, but if they somehow got him back for a potential Ocean Kai, he well have improved, or the direction may've improved, since that could've been what was hampering his performance and making it somewhat inconsistent.

Still, though, I think Schemmel's Kai performance is better than Corlett, Kelamis or Morrow's. Not the voice, though, but that's nitpicking at this point, since most of the dub is great.

[LiamKav]

Strangely enough, I think the exact opposite for Schemmel... I think he's really good at being natural, slightly goofy Goku, but flounders a bit when he's asked to be really angry. (Although this is largely based of his DBZ dubbing. I haven't heard enough Kai to judge how much he's improved.)

One argument I read for the attack changes is whether the attack was first used in DragonBall. Since they aren't redubbing that series, it would be confusing for someone watching DB and then DBZ Kai to hear an attach name change. Of course, this doesn't really tie in with the fact that the main female protagonist of the series gets a new voice, but oh well...

(And as for the names, I'm fairly certain that FUNi have "Tien Shinhan" trademarked. It might be too much money/effort to get it changed now.

[dbboxkaifan]

He's no Masako Nozawa but I honestly don't think her voice would sound good in fluent English. I just can't imagine it being properly emulated.

MasakoX, Peter Kelamis and Ian Corlett, they emulated Nozawa's Goku voice perfectly sometimes better than the others.

Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtsM5LKoJPQ

[DBZGTKOSDH]

He's no Masako Nozawa but I honestly don't think her voice would sound good in fluent English. I just can't imagine it being properly emulated.

MasakoX, Peter Kelamis and Ian Corlett, they emulated Nozawa's Goku voice perfectly sometimes better than the others.

I haven't heard the other voices, but how does MasakoX sound like Nozawa? He sounds to me more like Schemmel.

[dbboxkaifan]

MasakoX sounds nothing like Schemmel.

MasakoX's an imitation of Kelamis + Nozawa.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Sean Schemmel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef8DUwNd ... re=related
MasakoX: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJSuUWYcZwc

They sound very similar to me, like other TFS voices sound like the FUNi dub ones.

[matt0044]

He's no Masako Nozawa but I honestly don't think her voice would sound good in fluent English. I just can't imagine it being properly emulated.

MasakoX, Peter Kelamis and Ian Corlett, they emulated Nozawa's Goku voice perfectly sometimes better than the others.

Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtsM5LKoJPQ

Point taken. Though the deliver would have to be better if you ask me.

[Akumaito Beam]

Others have explained the incorrect terminology at length, touched upon the "wacky" jokes that were added and we've just wrapped up how a few characters aren't really their Japanese counterparts still. In my book that isn't a good dub. It's better than what came before it but that's not really indicative of accuracy in terms of the product by itself. At the end of the day I feel like it's a vastly improved reboot of the old dub. The gang is all here when it comes to the previous dub's flaws but the flaws are now delivered in a way that appeals to older dub fans. The humor that appeals to children is gone, no more alliteration, no more wacky knock knock jokes but in its place there's that sarcastic, no you di'in humor this generation loves so much. Dumb names like "Special Beam Cannon" and "Destructo Disk" are gone but I imagine that's only because they sound silly because other more subtle name changes still prevail. Recoome is still a bumbling idiot, Chi Chi is still overly obnoxious, Kuririn is still cracking wise, Goku still fights against swords of injustice but those personality shifts are presented in a vastly more subtle way. Gone completely is the "X-TREME DRAGON ROCKING TM" to make room for a more accurate script. I'm not ragging on the dub, it's improved for sure but be it on purpose or by accident I still see a more mature and grown up version of the dub that we've had for decades.

[dbboxkaifan]

Dumb names like "Special Beam Cannon" and "Destructo Disk" are gone but I imagine that's only because they sound silly because other more subtle name changes still prevail.

Destructo Disc is still used amongst others, you can listen to (Dameon Clarke) Cell saying "Destructo Disc!", it's on episode 88, I think.

[Piccolo Daimao]

He's no Masako Nozawa but I honestly don't think her voice would sound good in fluent English. I just can't imagine it being properly emulated.

MasakoX, Peter Kelamis and Ian Corlett, they emulated Nozawa's Goku voice perfectly sometimes better than the others.

Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtsM5LKoJPQ

Here's where I stand on the English Gokuus, with my favourites in order:

MasakoX: Best one in my opinion, and the closest to Nozawa in both voice and performance. Captures his innocence well, although I'd like to see his work outside of a parody.

Sean Schemmel: Not the best voice, but he's still quite good in both the calm and serious moments and, unlike the others, had the chance to improve over time.

Peter Kelamis: I think his occasionally inconsistent acting was more to do with poor direction and the overall "cartoony" feel that the Ocean dub had. Still, he can really nail those Nozawa screams, and his voice is better than Schemmel and closer to Nozawa.

Kirby Morrow: I actually haven't heard that much from him, but from what I remember, it was too collected to properly encompass the whole character.

Ian Corlett: Somewhat generic, and feels like a blander version of Schemmel (even though he came first). Not in the superhero sense, though, as that award goes to the AB Groupe "He-Man" Gokuu.