Sensing Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta on Earth

[Bussani]

Maybe they weren't surprised by Vegeta going SSJ2, but rather his strength. If you think about it Babidi's spell had increased Vegeta's power to put him on par with Goku so it wasn't a surprise that he turned SSJ2 but rather the strength he had when he transformed.

That works as an explanation for Goku's surprise, but Piccolo's comment is a bit more specific, making it seem like he's only just found out about Vegeta surpassing the Super Saiyan wall.

[Hitiro]

Maybe they weren't surprised by Vegeta going SSJ2, but rather his strength. If you think about it Babidi's spell had increased Vegeta's power to put him on par with Goku so it wasn't a surprise that he turned SSJ2 but rather the strength he had when he transformed.

That works as an explanation for Goku's surprise, but Piccolo's comment is a bit more specific, making it seem like he's only just found out about Vegeta surpassing the Super Saiyan wall.

Which quote are we talking about? The "He's stronger than Gohan was in the Cell Games." one?

[Bussani]

Which quote are we talking about? The "He's stronger than Gohan was in the Cell Games." one?

Yeah, which he precedes by saying, "He's already surpassed the Super Saiyan wall as well," making it sound like it was news to him. But I suppose he could have meant, "He already surpassed the wall before, but look at his power now"...? I dunno...

[Hitiro]

Which quote are we talking about? The "He's stronger than Gohan was in the Cell Games." one?

Yeah, which he precedes by saying, "He's already surpassed the Super Saiyan wall as well," making it sound like it was news to him. But I suppose he could have meant, "He already surpassed the wall before, but look at his power now"...? I dunno...

Perhaps he was referring to Vegeta needing the transformation? If you think about "He's already surpassed the SSJ wall as well," could mean "Vegeta is using SSJ2? This must be more serious then I thought if he's going all out." in the beginning they were thinking Buu probably wasn't much of a threat so the fact that Vegeta was using SSJ2 surprised him because he probably thought none of the Saiyan's would need to go past SSJ to clear up the Kaioshin's mess.

[Saiga]

IIRC, the only times a ki has been shown grabbing their attention are SS3 Goku's huge ki and the ki of evil beings (Raditz, Freeza). So maybe they don't actually pay much attention to what's going in with ki except in unusual circumstances, such as an evil ki suddenly appearing or Goku raising his power so high the earth started to shake.

[DarkPrince_92]

IIRC, the only times a ki has been shown grabbing their attention are SS3 Goku's huge ki and the ki of evil beings (Raditz, Freeza). So maybe they don't actually pay much attention to what's going in with ki except in unusual circumstances, such as an evil ki suddenly appearing or Goku raising his power so high the earth started to shake.

Not so. After Goku left the ROSAT, he approached Korin and asked him to compare his power to Cell's. He revved and everyone was like, "GODAYUM, Goku gone crazy!" They definitely notice power rises like that.

[dario03]

IIRC, the only times a ki has been shown grabbing their attention are SS3 Goku's huge ki and the ki of evil beings (Raditz, Freeza). So maybe they don't actually pay much attention to what's going in with ki except in unusual circumstances, such as an evil ki suddenly appearing or Goku raising his power so high the earth started to shake.

That could also explain why nobody noticed Goten and Trunks being SS until they transformed infront of them.

[Bussani]

Perhaps he was referring to the Vegeta needing the transformation? If you think about "He's already surpassed the SSJ wall as well," could mean "Vegeta is using SSJ2? This must be more serious then I thought if he's going all out." in the beginning they were thinking Buu probably wasn't much of a threat so the fact that Vegeta was using SSJ2 surprised him because he probably thought none of the Saiyan's would need to go past SSJ to clear up the Kaioshin's mess.

Ah, interesting. I hadn't thought of looking at it that way. I suppose it's the "as well" part that causes problems there. As well as whom? That kind of implies there's someone else around who's also surpassed Super Saiyan because of how serious it is.

Not so. After Goku left the ROSAT, he approached Karin and asked him to compare his power to Cell's. He revved and everyone was like, "GODAYUM, Goku gone crazy!" They definitely notice power rises like that.

Well, he was directly beneath them. I do think it's odd that they can miss things like this, but then again, Kuririn didn't notice when he had two super-strong guys following him on Namek, and many, many characters think someone's died, forgetting that they can still sense their ki. Even Piccolo and Cell thought Gohan was finished at one point in the Cell Game, but Goku just calmly points out, "What are you talking about? You can still feel his ki, can't you?"

I like to compare ki sensing to our sense of hearing: it's always there, but you still sometimes miss things if you're distracted. But still...if you hear a very loud sound above all the normal, ambient noise, it's kind of hard not to notice it, isn't it? That's why I find these examples so strange.

[DarkPrince_92]

Funny you mention Krillin. Krillin is the one that could fully sense Trunks and Cell's full potential even without them putting them out. I feel like someone had to have sense Vegeta going SSJ2, specifically Kid Trunks at the time because that would have made him strongest on the planet at the time as well.

[Saiga]

IIRC, the only times a ki has been shown grabbing their attention are SS3 Goku's huge ki and the ki of evil beings (Raditz, Freeza). So maybe they don't actually pay much attention to what's going in with ki except in unusual circumstances, such as an evil ki suddenly appearing or Goku raising his power so high the earth started to shake.

Not so. After Goku left the ROSAT, he approached Karin and asked him to compare his power to Cell's. He revved and everyone was like, "GODAYUM, Goku gone crazy!" They definitely notice power rises like that.

Yeah, but Goku was right there, of course they were going to sense that.

[Bussani]

I actually think Kuririn knowing about Trunks and Cell was less about ki sensing and more about experience. Same with Goku saying he probably wouldn't be able to beat Cell and wouldn't know for sure how strong he could get until he fought him. I'd call these sorts of things educated guesses, where the character has been through these things enough times to know when a person is holding themselves back just by looking at them. Characters like Karin may be another matter, though. And the Great Namekian Elder could clearly feel a person's dormant power, even when they themselves couldn't.

[DarkPrince_92]

I actually think Kuririn knowing about Trunks and Cell was less about ki sensing and more about experience. Same with Goku saying he probably wouldn't be able to beat Cell and wouldn't know for sure how strong he could get until he fought him. I'd call these sorts of things educated guesses, where the character has been through these things enough times to know when a person is holding themselves back just by looking at them. Characters like Karin may be another matter, though. And the Great Namekian Elder could clearly feel a person's dormant power, even when they themselves couldn't.

Mmm. I guess that makes sense. i guess no one expected much from Vegeta.

[Ketchup_Revenge]

I know this topic is a bit old, but I'm getting bored with the current ones.
Vegeta's a smart guy. It's possible that he figured out how to go SSj2 but simply never did until he felt the need to. The ability to reach higher Super Saiyan levels seem to not only be tied into the Saiyan's overall power, but seems to require a certain level of knowledge about transforming as well.

It's also a good question why no one knew about Goku's SSj3. He most certainly used it in the afterlife (he strongly implies it), but Kaioshin and Kabito were both visibly blown away when they sensed him on Kaioshin's planet from Earth.