Is there an "Uncut" Pioneer VHS of episodes 1-3?

[LordCrumb]

BOOM -- Podcast Episode #0066. Be kind... it's from before I purchased a real mixer.

Awesome! Thanks for that.

If anyone wants to know, the dubbing talk starts around 21min

[TheBlackPaladin]

BOOM -- Podcast Episode #0066. Be kind... it's from before I purchased a real mixer.

Thanks, Mike!

...*sigh*...Like they said in this podcast episode, you can take out the word "death," or reword it, but people still clearly know what's being talked about, so what's the point of those edits? I'm not blaming anybody in particular (even though it was probably Saban), but I'd love to know the discussions that went on behind-the-scenes regarding the references to death and killing. I have this funny image in my head of a frantic memo sent back to FUNimation from Saban reading, "RE: NOBODY DIES."

[NitroEX]

I'de like to imagine that in some strange alternate reality Funimation never split with Ocean, Saban & Pioneer and they got to carry on dubbing the whole series and the rest of the movies. I'de like to live in that reality.

[VegettoEX]

I'de like to imagine that in some strange alternate reality Funimation never split with Ocean, Saban & Pioneer and they got to carry on dubbing the whole series and the rest of the movies. I'de like to live in that reality.

Well, you could have been in the UK (and Canada at certain points?) and have watched such a creation, albeit with voice direction done with (what many consider) significantly less production values, and a replacement score from a variety of other sources. You wouldn't get the movies, but you'd have the rest of Z TV...

... and then alternate dubs of DB and DBGT with yet another separate (sister) voice cast, but with the original music in both cases...

Alternate timelines are fun.

[LiamKav]

A lot of the rules have nothing to do with FUNimation, or Saban. They're with the TV networks showing the programs, and the rules around that. I remember reading an interview with the creators of Batman: The Animated Series, and if they ever wanted to do something that could get cut, they'd put something much worse in that they knew would get cut to distract the censors.

(One of the things they had to censor was the death of Robin's parents. Originally they were going to show it, but they got told they couldn't do it. So they came up with the sequence where you just see his parents doing their act in silouette, and then a moment of silence before a frayed rope comes back in and everyone gasps. They never say what happened, but just imply it. And the sequence is probably a lot better for it. People work best when given limitations.)

Of course, the difference with DBZ is that they were working from an existing program, so it was harder for them to creatively get around rules, and when they did people knew that they had changed it. No-one was gonna come out of that looking good.

[eledoremassis02]

A lot of the rules have nothing to do with FUNimation, or Saban. They're with the TV networks showing the programs, and the rules around that. I remember reading an interview with the creators of Batman: The Animated Series, and if they ever wanted to do something that could get cut, they'd put something much worse in that they knew would get cut to distract the censors.

(One of the things they had to censor was the death of Robin's parents. Originally they were going to show it, but they got told they couldn't do it. So they came up with the sequence where you just see his parents doing their act in silouette, and then a moment of silence before a frayed rope comes back in and everyone gasps. They never say what happened, but just imply it. And the sequence is probably a lot better for it. People work best when given limitations.)

Of course, the difference with DBZ is that they were working from an existing program, so it was harder for them to creatively get around rules, and when they did people knew that they had changed it. No-one was gonna come out of that looking good.

Well said!

[kidglov3s]

I'de like to imagine that in some strange alternate reality Funimation never split with Ocean, Saban & Pioneer and they got to carry on dubbing the whole series and the rest of the movies. I'de like to live in that reality.

I just watched the first half or so of the Ocean Dub on DVD in two sessions, seeing it for the first time in well over a decade (love you uncut subtitled presentations!), and I was surprised at how enjoyable it was and how for the first time I actually saw positive qualities to some of the edits-for-time that were made. It sped right by and had great pacing. By no means does it touch the original, but I'd take it a million times over the Funi dub. It'd be interesting if the entire series had been done in this fashion, and then to compare that to Kai. I find it curious how Japan went back and essentially took the same approach that was so reviled by everyone far and wide and is not really condemned for it. Granted, it's clearly an alternative and not the only option available, as the Saban/Funi product was for us back then. The rage at DBZ Uncensored was a righteous rage, and considering the Dragon Boxes (or even the season sets, which even allowing for their major flaws are a godsend compared to what we had in 1998) I don't wanna change a thing. I am, however, happy that the Funi/Saban dub was preserved on DVD.

[Attitudefan]

I'de like to imagine that in some strange alternate reality Funimation never split with Ocean, Saban & Pioneer and they got to carry on dubbing the whole series and the rest of the movies. I'de like to live in that reality.

I just watched the first half or so of the Ocean Dub on DVD in two sessions, seeing it for the first time in well over a decade (love you uncut subtitled presentations!), and I was surprised at how enjoyable it was and how for the first time I actually saw positive qualities to some of the edits-for-time that were made. It sped right by and had great pacing. By no means does it touch the original, but I'd take it a million times over the Funi dub. It'd be interesting if the entire series had been done in this fashion, and then to compare that to Kai. I find it curious how Japan went back and essentially took the same approach that was so reviled by everyone far and wide and is not really condemned for it. Granted, it's clearly an alternative and not the only option available, as the Saban/Funi product was for us back then. The rage at DBZ Uncensored was a righteous rage, and considering the Dragon Boxes (or even the season sets, which even allowing for their major flaws are a godsend compared to what we had in 1998) I don't wanna change a thing. I am, however, happy that the Funi/Saban dub was preserved on DVD.

Well said. I think if there was an alternative, like all episodes intact or Japanese uncut I presume the outrage would have been much smaller. Gen Fukanga (spelling??) had said there was an uncut release planned...

[TheBlackPaladin]

I'de like to imagine that in some strange alternate reality Funimation never split with Ocean, Saban & Pioneer and they got to carry on dubbing the whole series and the rest of the movies. I'de like to live in that reality.

I just watched the first half or so of the Ocean Dub on DVD in two sessions, seeing it for the first time in well over a decade (love you uncut subtitled presentations!), and I was surprised at how enjoyable it was and how for the first time I actually saw positive qualities to some of the edits-for-time that were made. It sped right by and had great pacing. By no means does it touch the original, but I'd take it a million times over the Funi dub. It'd be interesting if the entire series had been done in this fashion, and then to compare that to Kai. I find it curious how Japan went back and essentially took the same approach that was so reviled by everyone far and wide and is not really condemned for it. Granted, it's clearly an alternative and not the only option available, as the Saban/Funi product was for us back then. The rage at DBZ Uncensored was a righteous rage, and considering the Dragon Boxes (or even the season sets, which even allowing for their major flaws are a godsend compared to what we had in 1998) I don't wanna change a thing. I am, however, happy that the Funi/Saban dub was preserved on DVD.

Well said. I think if there was an alternative, like all episodes intact or Japanese uncut I presume the outrage would have been much smaller. Gen Fukanga (spelling??) had said there was an uncut release planned...

I assume, Attitudefan, that you're referring to this interview? As shown through the speculation beneath the interview, the common thought was that Mr. Fukunaga didn't mean that, and that he was just telling the interviewer what they wanted to hear. However, that may not have been the case. Barry Watson also said that they were planning on doing an uncut release of the TV episodes using the Ocean cast. Again, some fans speculated that Watson either accidentally or deliberately misspoke, but they based that on the fact that such a release never came to pass. For all we know, they were going to do it and things just fell apart at the last second. It certainly wouldn't be the first time that a production was cancelled due to huge last-minute problems.

[superrayman3]

It certainly wouldn't be the first time that a production was cancelled due to huge last-minute problems.

Are you by chance refering to what happened with Robotech the Sentinals when you brought this up, because if so that show is a perfect example of such a thing happening.

[Attitudefan]

I assume, Attitudefan, that you're referring to this interview? As shown through the speculation beneath the interview, the common thought was that Mr. Fukunaga didn't mean that, and that he was just telling the interviewer what they wanted to hear. However, that may not have been the case. Barry Watson also said that they were planning on doing an uncut release of the TV episodes using the Ocean cast. Again, some fans speculated that Watson either accidentally or deliberately misspoke, but they based that on the fact that such a release never came to pass. For all we know, they were going to do it and things just fell apart at the last second. It certainly wouldn't be the first time that a production was cancelled due to huge last-minute problems.

Yes it is. I think, if not for the falling out, and if DBZ's popularity explosion came before that falling out, I think FUNi with the Ocean cast would have made an uncut version. Milk the product as much as they can.

[dbboxkaifan]

I was searching around to see if I could find sellers with DBZ Ocean Dub Saiyan Saga for pre-order nothing, except this:

Dragon Ball Z - Saiyan: Arrival (VHS, 1997, Dubbed; Original Cover Art)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dragon-Ball-Z-S ... 2a2b000b77

Looks to be in great condition and for collectors/fans this might be cool to have, it's pretty cheap. Seller only ships within US, though.

[G1Ravage]

Wow! I had no idea there were so many line changes from the first two episodes! Makes me really nostalgic for those days.

[ABED]

Apparently those "uncut" episodes only aired once, and the only remaining evidence that they even existed are VHS TV recordings that some fans held on to.

Pretty much. That being said, another tip-off that came much later was that "World of Dragon Ball Z" mini-recap-special that FUNimation put together for the Trunks DVDs (was it also on VHS?). In at least one of the clips, the dialog from the original broadcast was used instead of the re-recorded version (Roshi's "I smell death in the air!").

Yes, they were on VHS. The tape was titled "Z Warriors Prepare". It has the World of Dragon Ball Z and episodes 124 and 125. It was originally sold as a Burger King promotion if I recall, but then eventually was released a few months later in stores.

[Elguapo]

I know this is an old thread, but while searching for this tape on google it took me here.

Is this the pioneer tape in question?

http://imgur.com/a/cvB3a#0

This is the first tape I ever owned, this is the Action version. It definitely has blood & cussing, its the old dub, I got really used to this dub & then boom they switched it.

[VegettoEX]

There's definitely no "cussing" in those episodes. There was no uncut dub ever produced with the original voice cast. It wasn't until 2005 that FUNimation went back and re-dubbed those episodes with the new cast under the "Ultimate Uncut Edition" moniker.

The only uncut material from that time period (1996-1998) with that voice cast was DBZ Movies 1-3. The VHS you've provided an image of is the TV series.

[Elguapo]

There's definitely no "cussing" in those episodes. There was no uncut dub ever produced with the original voice cast. It wasn't until 2005 that FUNimation went back and re-dubbed those episodes with the new cast under the "Ultimate Uncut Edition" moniker.

The only uncut material from that time period (1996-1998) with that voice cast was DBZ Movies 1-3. The VHS you've provided an image of is the TV series.

I'm watching it right now and I've heard the word hell I'm pretty sure. Ill watch it again, I just kind of have it on in the background

[dbboxkaifan]

I'm watching it right now and I've heard the word hell I'm pretty sure. Ill watch it again, I just kind of have it on in the background

This "uncut" dub is also on the Rock the Dragon Edition which uses words like "Hell" and "Death". I don't remember if I heard "damn" but perhaps "darn".

[VegettoEX]

I definitely don't remember there being "Hell" mentioned in the original broadcast dub. I would have pointed it out and included it in the above-linked podcast episode. It would have been glaringly obvious.

"Death" is mentioned in the first three-ish episodes of that original broadcast, yeah, but definitely not "Hell" or even "damn".