That is if that's the multiplier. However, the Golden Oozaru power is definitely greater than Super Saiyan 3, since Golden Oozaru Goku could injure Super Baby 2, while Super Saiyan 3 Goku was useless against Vegeta-Baby.Toadster wrote:x50 boost tacked on to a x10 boost is a 500x boost in power from base form.
Why did the Saiyans need Goku?
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Why did the Saiyans need Goku?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Why did the Saiyans need Goku?
That's not exactly how things works. For example, it seems that the Kaio-ken can't make a Super Saiyan any stronger. The same should go for an Oozaru transformed in Super Saiyan, if it is even possible to do it in the original manga.Toadster wrote:x50 boost tacked on to a x10 boost is a 500x boost in power from base form.
Besides, the Daizenshuu says that the Super Saiyan 3 unleashes all of a Saiyan hidden power, so it would not be possible to have a multiplier greater than 400. That only applies for the manga of course.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Why did the Saiyans need Goku?
Why?Fox666 wrote:it seems that the Kaio-ken can't make a Super Saiyan any stronger.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Why did the Saiyans need Goku?
Purely based on the idea that it was never used again.
Re: Why did the Saiyans need Goku?
I don't think that proves anything. Kaioken isn't a transformation like Super Saiyan, but a technique. There's something about Super Saiyan that makes Kaioken unusable... perhaps they draw from the same source of power? There's no reason at all a Super Saiyan can't turn Oozaru and get a power boost, especially when both transformations function so differently.
Re: Why did the Saiyans need Goku?
There kind of is: their tails have never grow again after they transformed in Super Saiyans. Going by the Daizenshuu (and an interview with Toriyama), the tail appear when the Saiyans are in danger, and it has never grow again because they are so strong that they don't need it anymore. But would that make sense if the tail could still make them stronger when they have been on the brink of death as Super Saiyans?
Re: Why did the Saiyans need Goku?
If the tails are supposed to grow back when a Saiyan is in danger, how come it never grows back when Goku was in danger against Piccolo Jr.? Or against Vegeta? Or Freeza? Or when Vegeta was in danger against Zarbon? The Ginyu Force? Freeza?
Vegeta can create a fake moon, so if he could have had his tail back, don't you think it would make quite a bit of difference on Namek? The point is, the tail doesn't always grow back when a Saiyan's in danger. It never worked for Goku when he was an adult and never for Freeza, despite those two being pit against horrible odds before they were able to transform.
Vegeta can create a fake moon, so if he could have had his tail back, don't you think it would make quite a bit of difference on Namek? The point is, the tail doesn't always grow back when a Saiyan's in danger. It never worked for Goku when he was an adult and never for Freeza, despite those two being pit against horrible odds before they were able to transform.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Why did the Saiyans need Goku?
I don't understand why this would happen. Kaio-ken is not a transformation, it's a technique. It's like making Kamehameha unusable in Super Saiyan. The most logical thing that I can think of is the theory that the body wouldn't be able to endure both Super Saiyan & Kaio-ken. It's also what happened in the filler fight with Paikuhan when Goku used Super Kaio-ken. He only used it for one hit, most likely because if he had used it for more time, he would be damaged or killed (if he was alive then).Fox666 wrote:Purely based on the idea that it was never used again.
As for Oozaru + Super Saiyan in the manga, I don't believe that the result would be Golden Oozaru. I believe that when a Super Saiyan (whatever form) looks at the moon, when the Oozaru transformation begins, the Super Saiyan form will be deactivated.
Because Kami had removed Goku's tail permanently.Toadster wrote:If the tails are supposed to grow back when a Saiyan is in danger, how come it never grows back when Goku was in danger against Piccolo Jr.? Or against Vegeta? Or Freeza? Or when Vegeta was in danger against Zarbon? The Ginyu Force? Freeza?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Piccolo Daimao
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Re: Why did the Saiyans need Goku?
Why? The Golden Oozaru concept in GT doesn't contradict anything, so why can't Oozaru and Super Saiyan work in conjunction?DBZGTKOSDH wrote:As for Oozaru + Super Saiyan in the manga, I don't believe that the result would be Golden Oozaru. I believe that when a Super Saiyan (whatever form) looks at the moon, when the Oozaru transformation begins, the Super Saiyan form will be deactivated.
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.
Re: Why did the Saiyans need Goku?
Is this even on topic anymore?
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Why did the Saiyans need Goku?
Because Toriyama said that the Saiyan's don't need tails anymore, which means that they don't need Oozaru. And Golden Oozaru > Super Saiyan 3, so that means that a Saiyan would need Golden Oozaru more than Super Saiyan 3.Piccolo Daimao wrote:Why? The Golden Oozaru concept in GT doesn't contradict anything, so why can't Oozaru and Super Saiyan work in conjunction?DBZGTKOSDH wrote:As for Oozaru + Super Saiyan in the manga, I don't believe that the result would be Golden Oozaru. I believe that when a Super Saiyan (whatever form) looks at the moon, when the Oozaru transformation begins, the Super Saiyan form will be deactivated.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.