Hellspawn28 wrote:Hitiro wrote:mysticboy wrote:Reviewers =/= fans. Reviewers didn't like it because they have the mindset of "another year, another DBZ game" so they automatically deduct points for that without even playing it first.
Not to mention they probably can't even play it that well. I've not seen any reviewer pull off any of the more difficult mechanics within Budokai games. They just spam whatever they can.
From what I've read from many reviews that IW is just a Budokai 3.5 and they did it so late. By 2008, most gamers already had a 360 and PS3. I prefer to listen to critics then the audience most of the time since they often know what they are talking about. Places like IMDB and Metacrtic allow anyone to give out ratings with no reasons behind them.
Personally I just don't trust anybody unless I know them personally and they say theres something flat out wrong with the game/movie/show/whatever. People have different tastes so what you and I and randomguy and randomcritic think about something is going to differ. Like personally I think Super Street Fighter 4 and Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 are flat out better than their previous games, however IGN gave the MvC games the same score and SSF4 a lower score than SF4. They gave them scores like that because they didn't think the new ones were revolutionary like the previous ones were. Which while true the new ones are still better so should score higher, though maybe only a little higher.
And in the case of this game I think the critics and (according to this thread) the japanese audience were in line with each other. IGN gave IW a 3.5 and B3 a 8. I'm thinking probably for the same reasons as SSF4 got marked down and also for lacking in the single player department. Though I think IW and fighting games in general should be given seperate scores for single player and multiplayer. I mean why should the dreadful mini games bring down the human vs human mode?
Hitiro wrote:dario03 wrote:I won't comment on UMvC since honestly I don't have much experience in that game and only a bit in MvC3. In MvC3 I don't remember haveing much trouble with blocking or jumping over random ultras but again I didn't play a whole lot. However I have played SSF4 a good bit and SF4 a lot and I will definitely disagree with saying that your only option is blocking and that you can hit a random ultra easier. The biggest thing being that your only option is blocking, really the much better option to random ultras is jumping or teleporting (like side stepping in IW). Once you have jumped or teleported past the ultra in SF4 your opponent is usually wide open because they also have longer recovery frames (though I haven't actually since IW frame data, found a post at a other site that looks to be from you but didn't see the link to the site that was mentioned (probably since I'm not a member of the site)). Or if you do just block the random ultra (something you can't even do in IW) then you will still have a huge frame advantage. Actually if your not really low on health but have your super/ultra built it isn't even that bad of a idea to bait your opponent into a super/ultra, block it, and then counter with your own super/ultra.
Really the only other reliable way to land a ultra without a setup is to use it as a counter. But that only works for some characters and only if your opponent throws out something heavy with a lot of frames. So yeah if you throw a fireball half screen away at Seth he can easily counter it with a ultra or if you try throwing a hard kick at Akuma he can counter it with a ultra but thats why you just don't do that. Beyond doing that you would have to just flat out guess what your opponent is going to do and get the timing perfect (and that Akuma example I just used often times is going to require you to do this). And you can do the guessing game in IW to.
And on top of all of that you still lose all your power when you do a super/ultra in SF4 even if its blocked or missed. And you can't just power up like you can in IW you have to use moves/get hit to build super and get hit to build ultra. Usually you'll only be able to use 1 maybe 2 ultras a round and probably only 1 or 2 supers in a 3 round fight and often times your better off using the special meter for EX moves instead of super.
I have also played quite a bit of SSF4, I am aware that there are ultra's in the game which can be jumped, or teleported, away from. However my experience is that most of them you just have to hold block. It may be because I haven't taken the time to learn the best counters for ultra's so I apologize if it isn't the case. That being said characters in which you jump away from their ultra's is still quite difficult. I used to main Blanka when I played SSF4 and my friend used to try jumping in between the active frames of his shout of earth ultra. He found it pretty hard to do and in all of the games we had he only managed to pull it off 25% of the time. Of course if he blocked it then the chip would have given me the game. With the startup and active frames for ultras in SSF4 I genuinely think that it is safer just to block the attack rather than jump and hope that you can do a good enough job to place you outside of those active frames. But in Budokai 3 all you need to do is a simple sidestep, there is nothing to worry about like Blanka's ultra catching you while you try to jump between the active frames.
And yes, it probably is me on that other forum talking about frame data. To be honest its nowhere near completion and I haven't included the frame data for the ultimate's startup and active frames for any character because it is all the same. Also the fact that I was focusing on all of the combo strings frame data to see where the safest places to drop combos are, what disadvantages to some combo strings have on others, etc. It has also taken a back seat at the moment while I do the Budokai 3 frame data.
With Blanka and a couple others maybe but with most of the characters I would say no. I mean you can if you want to because blocking does reduce the damage a good bit depending on the move (unless its unblockable) but most of the moves don't stay active in the large area that Blanka's Shout does. But even with the large area and active time you can still jump out of it. I'm no blanka expert but I believe you can just jump over him, thats why he has 2 versions of the move, one is a ground attack and one is a anti air probably intended to catch people trying to jump over.
But most of the other characters ultras even with large active frames aren't a threat unless they hit early. Jumping over them might not always be a good idea because some are anti air but depending on what it is you can still either jump back or teleport back or behind the opponent. It varies by character so it might take longer to learn than side stepping a ultimate in IW but there was some decently strict timing to side step a ultimate in IW.
Ryu- Fireball - jump over it or teleport, the fireball is only a tiny bit bigger than normal but he stands wide open for longer.
Ryu- Uppercut - jumping can get you hit because its a anti air move but it might whiff and not do much, however teleporting or just dashing/jumping back (unless your right next to him) will avoid it and leave him wide open
Seth - fast weird grab thingy - jump, teleport, block it, doesn't matter, it doesn't do chip damage but you get more frame advantage if you avoid it
Seth - tornado spin - same as Ryu's uppercut
Akuma - Wrath of the Raging Demon - DO NOT BLOCK, its a grab move, one of the few that actually has distance, however its really easy to jump over or teleport away or if you know the distance well enough you can jump back but thats risky
Zangief - ultra on ground - has to basically be on top of the opponent, can't be blocked, basically just don't get real close and if you do just get away
Zangief - ultra in air - opponent has to be in air to land it so it can't be blocked but you have to put yourself in a position for it to be used against you AFAIK
Chun Li - both ultras can be avoided in basically any way but neutral jump
Abel - Ultra 1 - Jump over, he'll go right past you
Abel - ultra 2 - unblockable but again just jump and he'll miss and be wide open
Vega - ultra 1 - this is another one that is probably best to block, it hits in air so jumping is of course risky and teleported is riskier for not much reward since if you block it, it does little damage and he stays open for a long time.
Vega - ultra 2 - I guess anything would work ok, active and recovery frames don't add up to much for a ultra and the frame advantage on block is about the same as recovery
M.Bison - Ultra 1 - jump over it or teleport
m.Bison - Ultra 2 - honestly I can't remember if this is blockable or not but either way jumping back is perfectly safe
Thats just some off the top of my head. Like I said it depends on the move for what is best to do but its usually safe to get away in some kind of way.
For IW the only frame data I'm actually interested in for sake of this conversation would be the recovery frames from ultimates. Like I said in SF4 a missed ultra can spell doom because pretty much all of them are left open for a good amount of time and others for crazy amounts of time. Seth's U2 has 11 startup, 80 active, and 104 recovery, he is invincible for 88 of those but thats still over 100 frames of him wide open plus frames for the opponent to position themselves and I don't think that even he has the longest opening. Haven't seen the data but I don't think any of the characters in SF4 recover as fast from a missed/blocked ultra as a character in IW recovers from missed ultimates.
