Was Gohan "Ultimate" in Movie #12?

[Enbi]

Even if he did lose power, him one-shotting Freeza would still happen....

Yeah, he shouldn't have any trouble, even in base, 100% Freeza or not.

[Rocketman]

I'd like to bring up something. During the time Gohan powered up after the Elder Kaioshin said he was done Gohan's features didn't change until just before the battle with Super Buu.

Gohan's face changes when he powers up after Elder Kai says "yup, i'm done". He keeps the same look even in the Uub section.

[Hitiro]

I'd like to bring up something. During the time Gohan powered up after the Elder Kaioshin said he was done Gohan's features didn't change until just before the battle with Super Buu.

Gohan's face changes when he powers up after Elder Kai says "yup, i'm done". He keeps the same look even in the Uub section.

It doesn't really look like it changed to me. It looks exactly the same as any other point before the power up. The only time where it doesn't is if he isn't serious about something. But when he is serious it looks exactly the same as if he was using his unlocked ability except without the hair.

[Rory]

The hair changes (more angular than the soft looking pre-Kaioshin power-up, with the sharp bang that shoots straight down), his face seems somewhat more angular too, more pointy, all serious-business like. The eyes are a dead give-away too.
At this risk of sounding douchey, this one's pretty obvious.

[hleV]

I'd like to bring up something. During the time Gohan powered up after the Elder Kaioshin said he was done Gohan's features didn't change until just before the battle with Super Buu. Is it possible that unless Gohan is fighting over a certain level of strength his "Mystic" features don't become prominent? Or could this possibly just be a mistake on Toriyama's part? If so he could have easily been using his unlocked strength. Just only a portion of it.

Even when non-powered-up, Gohan should still have his eyes with full outline if he truly was "Ultimate".

Why is this? Is it stated somewhere? Because Gohan powers up after the Elder Kaioshin finished his business there were no distinguishable changes in his features. As I said it is only after he starts fighting Super Buu that his hair looks different.

Gohan had fully-outlined eyes in both non-powered and powered-up states for the rest of his lifetime after he "did that Super Saiyan thing" in order to become the "mightiest of warriors".

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Normal Gohan pre-Ultimate:



Normal Gohan post-Ultimate:

[Insertclevername]

At this risk of sounding douchey, this one's pretty obvious.

You don't sound douchey! I had a feeling Gohan was just base, it was just the "Freeza-one shot" that I couldn't wrap my head around.

[Mystic Gohan]

What's so confusing bout Gohan one-shotting Freeza in base by the Boo saga?

[hleV]

What's so confusing bout Gohan one-shotting Freeza in base by the Boo saga?

The fact that he shouldn't be able to. Well, perhaps not a fact, but a common opinion that base Saiyans shouldn't be that strong.

[Saiga]

What's so confusing bout Gohan one-shotting Freeza in base by the Boo saga?

The fact that he shouldn't be able to. Well, perhaps not a fact, but a common opinion that base Saiyans shouldn't be that strong.

Even though Freeza appears to be the same as he was when fighting base Goku?

[Kaboom]

Yeah, it'd be very easy to just assume that, based on his appearance, Freeza wasn't powered up very greatly, if at all, and was unprepared for such a powerful punch from Gohan.

It making Freeza EXPLODE, however, is... interesting.

[TheMightyOzaru]

What's so confusing bout Gohan one-shotting Freeza in base by the Boo saga?

The fact that he shouldn't be able to. Well, perhaps not a fact, but a common opinion that base Saiyans shouldn't be that strong.

I see no reason for Gohan to be unable to own Frieza in base at this point especially one that seemingly wasnt using 100% power. Plus this is Toei

[Enbi]

What's so confusing bout Gohan one-shotting Freeza in base by the Boo saga?

The fact that he shouldn't be able to. Well, perhaps not a fact, but a common opinion that base Saiyans shouldn't be that strong.

First time I've ever heard of this 'common opinion'.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone go against the notion that Freeza is absolute fodder to the Base Saiyans by the Boo Saga. Things are different here, it seems...

Edit: Okay, I've seen some people go against it, but never a majority of people.

[Hitiro]

First time I've ever heard of this 'common opinion'.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone go against the notion that Freeza is absolute fodder to the Base Saiyans by the Boo Saga. Things are different here, it seems...

Edit: Okay, I've seen some people go against it, but never a majority of people.

My opinion has always been that the Base Saiyan's never went past 50% of Frieza's final form, even in the Boo saga.

If we take into consideration that Piccolo was the strongest Base character in the Cell saga it wouldn't take a great deal of strength for any of the Saiyan's to surpass him with their SSJ forms. For example, if we take it that Goku, for some reason, was still at a base of 3 million then SSJ would be at 150 million. Now lets assume that Kami-Piccolo is somewhere in the 200 millions. Goku would only need to improve by another 2 or 3 million to surpass him. Basically the increases which would make characters like Piccolo important fly out of the window when you consider if Goku trained as much as Piccolo Goku would always have an advantage due to the SSJ multiplier. So in my opinion its safe to assume that the Saiyan's didn't get as many significant gains as they did during the Namek Saga. Otherwise why would the fighters be so surprised about how strong Piccolo is if with enough training they could easily pass him?

[Mystic Gohan]

What's so confusing bout Gohan one-shotting Freeza in base by the Boo saga?

The fact that he shouldn't be able to. Well, perhaps not a fact, but a common opinion that base Saiyans shouldn't be that strong.

I dunno man. Kaioshin can one-shot Freeza. He's amazed at what base Vegeta does to Pui-Pui.

[Hitiro]

I dunno man. Kaioshin can one-shot Freeza. He's amazed at what base Vegeta does to Pui-Pui.

But Goku was also surprised that there were four Kaioshin which could have defeated Freeza in one blow. Him being amazed that base Vegeta took out Pui-Pui is just due to his terrible ability at judging strength for a lot of the battles he seemed to be overestimating their opponents and underestimating the strength of Super Saiyan's.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I dunno man. Kaioshin can one-shot Freeza. He's amazed at what base Vegeta does to Pui-Pui.

But Goku was also surprised that there were four Kaioshin which could have defeated Freeza in one blow. Him being amazed that base Vegeta took out Pui-Pui is just due to his terrible ability at judging strength for a lot of the battles he seemed to be overestimating their opponents and underestimating the strength of Super Saiyan's.

I dont see how this is a terrible judge. If you dont like that one how about Yakon. Yakon is probably stronger than Frieza since Kaioshin was scared shitless by him and knew who he was as opposed to Pui Pui. Goku was seemingly stronger than Yakon in base. Then there is the is Dabura whom seemed more impressed by Gohan, Goku, and Vegeta than even Piccolo so I dont see any reason for Gohan to be unable to one punch Frieza whom was holding back.

[hleV]

Yakon is probably stronger than Freeza since Kaioshin was scared shitless by him

Since when Kaioshin's reactions/statements about power are taken into consideration? People had tried before. People had failed before.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Yakon is probably stronger than Freeza since Kaioshin was scared shitless by him

Since when Kaioshin's reactions/statements about power are taken into consideration? People had tried before. People had failed before.

I see no reason for Kaioshin, someone far stronger than Frieza, to be scared of someone like Yakon unless he was more powerful. Yakon displayed nothing threatening other than his power and his ability to eat light energy.

[Fox666]

Wasn't for Super Saiyan 2, Goku would loose. Probably the three Saiyans would, consdering they would be blind and can't sense Yakon's Ki.