Rules, smoochules, they would have gotten away with disintegrating him; there'll be no Cell to get mad at them for not respecting them.freezamite wrote:Well, they respected the rules of the match. It's like when Goku gives Cell a senzu bean to help him regain his strength... XDGokuden wrote:They should have all ganged up on Cell when Goku blasted him, and made sure no piece of him survived, instead of just opening their jaws and standing there like geniuses.
So, about Cell's regeneration
Re: So, about Cell's regeneration
That time your teacher asked you to draw Cell in biology class.
This man is my hero:
This man is my hero:
To be perfectly honest, I couldn't care less about the fans a re-issue might alienate because if all they're concerned about is being able to scalp the people who were either unaware of the Dragon Boxes or couldn't afford them at the time, they're just leeches and deserve to have their greed backfire on them.
- freezamite
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Re: So, about Cell's regeneration
As I said, this would be a great idea to justify it if Toriyama had thought it or if he didn't draw that scene the way it did. I mean, If Toriyama had done this on purpose, then Cell would have explained the reason behind that, like he did when he returned after the explosion. But Piccolo, Krilin and the others acting as if this was normal, or Goku saying "I forgot you could regenerate yourself" doesn't make any sense in a context where Piccolo wouldn't be able to regenerate himself.
I don't care if the incongruence is in the fact of Cell regenerating, or Piccolo's explanation afterwards on the Bu saga, but there is something wrong on that scene that can't be explained just from what we see on the manga.
Toriyama was a good author, in fact, I think he was great in the sense that the fights he wrote are some of the best I have ever read on a manga, not only in their choreography, but also because of their development, always coherent with the injuries and the consequences they have on the fighter.
Goku being stronger than Vegeta with his firts Kaioh Ken x3 and then needing a Kaioh Ken x4 to surpass him is a great think that most manga authors doesn't use to do so the reader (presumably young) doesn't get lost, but he did it in order to be coherent with what he explained. And it was great.
He could also develop it's characters in a really interesting way, more mature than most mangas I've read, and he even drew some scenes that may confuse who doesn't read them carefully (how many people still think that Mecha Freezer was stronger than the original Freezer, when in fact he was much weaker?), because he was good or had good assistants (I don't care).
But with all that being said, he also made some mistakes (involuntarily ones like this one, or in purpose like when he "transformed" Gohan and Shin during the bu saga, maybe because he didn't like the way things were going and he wanted to change them mid-way). This is one of them, there is no explanation possible at what happened because of Piccolo's and the other Z-Fighters reaction.
I don't care if the incongruence is in the fact of Cell regenerating, or Piccolo's explanation afterwards on the Bu saga, but there is something wrong on that scene that can't be explained just from what we see on the manga.
Toriyama was a good author, in fact, I think he was great in the sense that the fights he wrote are some of the best I have ever read on a manga, not only in their choreography, but also because of their development, always coherent with the injuries and the consequences they have on the fighter.
Goku being stronger than Vegeta with his firts Kaioh Ken x3 and then needing a Kaioh Ken x4 to surpass him is a great think that most manga authors doesn't use to do so the reader (presumably young) doesn't get lost, but he did it in order to be coherent with what he explained. And it was great.
He could also develop it's characters in a really interesting way, more mature than most mangas I've read, and he even drew some scenes that may confuse who doesn't read them carefully (how many people still think that Mecha Freezer was stronger than the original Freezer, when in fact he was much weaker?), because he was good or had good assistants (I don't care).
But with all that being said, he also made some mistakes (involuntarily ones like this one, or in purpose like when he "transformed" Gohan and Shin during the bu saga, maybe because he didn't like the way things were going and he wanted to change them mid-way). This is one of them, there is no explanation possible at what happened because of Piccolo's and the other Z-Fighters reaction.
Yes, but those are the same geniuses that didn't kill Guero because they wanted to fight the androids, and Goku even gave Cell a senzu bean. I mean, what else can you expect from them? XDGokuden wrote:Rules, smoochules, they would have gotten away with disintegrating him; there'll be no Cell to get mad at them for not respecting them.
- InfernalVegito
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Re: So, about Cell's regeneration
In my view the Kamehameha just wasn't enough to blast it away because it's so incredibly tiny. Or it simply had luck.
BT3 off meds | The final fight
Ah, the Alpha and the Omega. As all life was created from Chaos...so shall it be DESTROYED!!!
The wails of machines | Singing cold harmony | Shifting air upward | Entranced by the breeze | Light pours like blood | Into a cosmic sea | Of stars crystallized | In a frozen symphony
Vegetto kicking you into orbit theme
Ah, the Alpha and the Omega. As all life was created from Chaos...so shall it be DESTROYED!!!
The wails of machines | Singing cold harmony | Shifting air upward | Entranced by the breeze | Light pours like blood | Into a cosmic sea | Of stars crystallized | In a frozen symphony
Vegetto kicking you into orbit theme
Re: So, about Cell's regeneration
Edit: All right, I guess I can sort of see what you you're saying. I mean, I still don't think I agree with your conclusion--as most of the time Cell just says he can regenerate because he has Piccolo's cells or blood, which doesn't say his regeneration can't be better--but if Cell does say that he can regenerate "just like Piccolo" after Goku blasts his head off, then yes, Cell is implying something that isn't right with that comment. His regeneration is clearly better than Piccolo's, not "just like" it. That's assuming the line "Piccolo no you ni na" can't be translated another way, like "similar to Piccolo," of course (someone with more knowledge of Japanese would have to tell us if that's the case or not).freezamite wrote:I insist, like Piccolo. Not better, not worse.
Of course, maybe we're reading into it too much. If I said, "I am able to drive, just like my friend," that doesn't necessarily mean our skills at driving are the same, does it? It could be taken that way (probably more so if the comma wasn't there), but it could also just mean that both my friend and I are capable of driving.
Edit 2: freezamite's got me thinking about this a lot lately, and I've come to the conclusion that I might be looking at it the wrong way. Maybe it isn't that Cell's ability to regenerate isn't technically better than Piccolo's itself, but instead that his ability to survive extreme injuries is better. Piccolo has been killed or crippled by things Cell would laugh off, such as Nappa's blast or one of Freeza's finger beams through the chest. If we count other Namekians as well, they've been taken down by things such as being crushed, being impaled, or having their necks snapped. If they could survive those things without losing much ki, the way Cell does, I suppose they'd be able to regenerate the way he does?
I'd be tempted to say Cell inherited the ability to survive extreme injuries from Freeza, who could operate even when cut in half, and who survived the injuries he acquired from Namek exploding (although I don't think we see those injuries in the manga, technically). However, when cut in half, Freeza was pretty much down for the count until Goku gave him some ki, so...Cell's ability to survive injuries goes even beyond his. But eh, I'm still okay with that. Where did Cell inherit his tail that lets him absorb humans and androids from? Is there actually an animal like that, or did the computer just engineer him to have it?
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- freezamite
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Re: So, about Cell's regeneration
Well, you are right when you say that Cell inherited Freezer's huge life force and resistance against injuries, but when Freezer got injured by his own kienzan, not only he lost all his power but also he never could move a single cut part of his body.Bussani wrote:Edit: All right, I guess I can sort of see what you you're saying. I mean, I still don't think I agree with your conclusion--as most of the time Cell just says he can regenerate because he has Piccolo's cells or blood, which doesn't say his regeneration can't be better--but if Cell does say that he can regenerate "just like Piccolo" after Goku blasts his head off, then yes, Cell is implying something that isn't right with that comment. His regeneration is clearly better than Piccolo's, not "just like" it. That's assuming the line "Piccolo no you ni na" can't be translated another way, like "similar to Piccolo," of course (someone with more knowledge of Japanese would have to tell us if that's the case or not).freezamite wrote:I insist, like Piccolo. Not better, not worse.
Of course, maybe we're reading into it too much. If I said, "I am able to drive, just like my friend," that doesn't necessarily mean our skills at driving are the same, does it? It could be taken that way (probably more so if the comma wasn't there), but it could also just mean that both my friend and I are capable of driving.
Edit 2: freezamite's got me thinking about this a lot lately, and I've come to the conclusion that I might be looking at it the wrong way. Maybe it isn't that Cell's ability to regenerate isn't technically better than Piccolo's itself, but instead that his ability to survive extreme injuries is better. Piccolo has been killed or crippled by things Cell would laugh off, such as Nappa's blast or one of Freeza's finger beams through the chest. If we count other Namekians as well, they've been taken down by things such as being crushed, being impaled, or having their necks snapped. If they could survive those things without losing much ki, the way Cell does, I suppose they'd be able to regenerate the way he does?
I'd be tempted to say Cell inherited the ability to survive extreme injuries from Freeza, who could operate even when cut in half, and who survived the injuries he acquired from Namek exploding (although I don't think we see those injuries in the manga, technically). However, when cut in half, Freeza was pretty much down for the count until Goku gave him some ki, so...Cell's ability to survive injuries goes even beyond his. But eh, I'm still okay with that. Where did Cell inherit his tail that lets him absorb humans and androids from? Is there actually an animal like that, or did the computer just engineer him to have it?
But what really hasn't any sense is Goku & company reactions. I mean, look at how they reacted when Cell came back from the explosion. They were as surprised as if they literally had seen a ghost. And now compare this to the reaction they have when Cell gets his upper body blasted by Goku. Even Goku says "I didn't remember you could regenerate", but... why does he say that when from his point of view, Cell shouldn't be able to do that?
If the fight had no spectators, or if they reacted the way they should, then I would have no problem in accepting theories like the ones that had been exposed in this thread, because they have some good points on them.
But context is what breaks any explanation beyond that. If Cell had that sort of ability that Piccolo hadn't, then his first comeback should at least leave the Z-warriors as surprised as his second one. And Goku saying that he "didn't remember" when he had nothing to remember (because Piccolo couldn't do that), or the other ones acting like if they knew that this would happen and why it happened when in fact they shouldn't know anything, or Cell responding "like Piccolo"... well, I think we have enough facts to say that Toriyama made a mistake in that scene.
If he had blown Cell's lower body instead then it would be different, but blowing his upper body along with his head and explaining it like if it was something Piccolo could do, this was a mistake no matter how you look at it.
In order to not enter in a loop (because now I only emphasized on the reasons I already gave you at my previous message, and I feel that the dialogue is stagnating a bit), I only ask you to answer me two questions:
1. Why did Goku say to Cell "I didn't remember" when he had nothing to remember since he couldn't possibly know Cell's ability to survive with only his two legs remaining?
2. You said before that the Z-warriors wasn't surprised at Cell's comeback because they felt his Ki. Why did they got so amazed when Cell came back after the explosion, if they also could feel his Ki once he had returned to earth?
I mean, they should be as clueless on why wasn't Cell dead without his head as they were on why could cell make his second comeback, don't you agree?
Regards!
Re: So, about Cell's regeneration
Yeah, I do see what you mean now. If you look at it that way, the wording does seem like it implies something that doesn't make sense.freezamite wrote:If the fight had no spectators, or if they reacted the way they should, then I would have no problem in accepting theories like the ones that had been exposed in this thread, because they have some good points on them.
But context is what breaks any explanation beyond that. If Cell had that sort of ability that Piccolo hadn't, then his first comeback should at least leave the Z-warriors as surprised as his second one. And Goku saying that he "didn't remember" when he had nothing to remember (because Piccolo couldn't do that), or the other ones acting like if they knew that this would happen and why it happened when in fact they shouldn't know anything, or Cell responding "like Piccolo"... well, I think we have enough facts to say that Toriyama made a mistake in that scene.
If he had blown Cell's lower body instead then it would be different, but blowing his upper body along with his head and explaining it like if it was something Piccolo could do, this was a mistake no matter how you look at it.
Well, Goku already seemed to know Cell had somehow survived since he could feel his ki, and it seemed he wasn't expecting that. I suppose he could have just been forgetting about Cell's ability to regenerate alone, and not also including his ability to survive without a head. Like, "Well I could tell you weren't dead, but I forgot you could restore yourself to fighting form like that."1. Why did Goku say to Cell "I didn't remember" when he had nothing to remember since he couldn't possibly know Cell's ability to survive with only his two legs remaining?
How can they not be surprised when Cell reappears from nowhere, after trying to commit suicide and being teleported far away, with more power than he'd ever had before? It's one thing to know that someone isn't dead when you've been sensing their ki constantly and call tell it hasn't fallen, but I can't blame them for being surprised when he reappears from nowhere. They really thought it was over for a minute there.2. You said before that the Z-warriors wasn't surprised at Cell's comeback because they felt his Ki. Why did they got so amazed when Cell came back after the explosion, if they also could feel his Ki once he had returned to earth?
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