Does Akira Toriyama's forgetfulness bother anyone but me?

[Scarz]

It used to bother me, now I just find it funny. Every time Toriyama forgets something it plays like a bad sitcom in my head: Toriyama: "What was the color of 18's hair again?" Fans: "Oh Toriyama, you're so forgetful." Cue title card "That's Our Toriyama!"

[FindKenshi]

I don't think it's cool or appealing at all.. like I said my feelings on the matter range from disappointment to hurt feelings.

[VegettoEX]

Do you remember every single little thing you've ever done at your current job? Have you held your current job for ten years and can reference back to everything you've done since beginning it? Even if you haven't been at your job for ten years, can you even put your hands on reference material you've used since starting it?

I sure can't.

[FindKenshi]

No, I can't.. but that's different. Unless drawing Dragonball literally was nothing but a job for him.. I wish it was more. I wonder what his attitude really is. I mean does Toriyama like his fans, or does he sit around thinking Gosh, I can't believe these grown ass men are still talking about Dragonball which they've been reading since they were children. I even wrote it bad on purpose so I could get out but they STILL liked it anyway.. mindless little sheep! I'll show them! I'll forget everything they hold dear. Hm a fan favorite character Tao Paipai.. very well I'll pretend I don't even remember him. SSj2/3.. psha.. never even heard of it!

I mean I know that probably isn't the case but it concerns me from time to time..

[VegettoEX]

I'm sure he enjoyed it at some points. Many people enjoy their jobs, some to different degrees of enjoyment.

We know that he started doing manga just to make money, though. There was no, "I'm going to take this opportunity to bestow the world with my artistic and story-telling talent!" It was manga = easy way to make some cash.

He's just a person (albeit a very rich person). I would hope you wouldn't want the same (I'd argue unfair and unrealistic) criticisms about his work applied to you. Also keep in mind there's a difference between "work ethic" and "I wonder what I wrote ten years ago". He worked his ASS OFF during that time, and he deserves the respect and understanding that comes along with that so many years later.

[ABED]

Maybe he's not a natural storyteller, but I would hope that his career wasn't simply a way of making money. I hope it was his passion to be an artist. I have nothing against making money, but a choice of career should be something you are passionate about and not just a means to an end seeing as how the bulk of your life is spent doing work. He may not be the most consistent storyteller, but he's a great artist, created wonderful, funny characters and a world that I enjoy delving into and imagining myself in. He has my respect.

[Bussani]

Maybe he's not a natural storyteller, but I would hope that his career wasn't simply a way of making money. I hope it was his passion to be an artist. I have nothing against making money, but a choice of career should be something you are passionate about and not just a means to an end seeing as how the bulk of your life is spent doing work. He may not be the most consistent storyteller, but he's a great artist, created wonderful, funny characters and a world that I enjoy delving into and imagining myself in. He has my respect.

Well, he liked to draw, we know that much. And he's said in interviews that after a certain point, he enjoyed coming up with what would happen in the story next week more than actually drawing it. But if I'm not misremembering, we also know from the man himself that he created his first manga specifically to try to win prize money in a contest.

I think it's cute how he forgets stuff. And heck, even though I enjoyed them and was really into it at the time, I can't remember every little detail about stories I wrote a decade or so ago.

[Vice]

It didn't really bother me that much until the whole confused about Super Saiyan 2/3 thing. There is no excuse for forgetting about that.

[Vice]

Do you remember every single little thing you've ever done at your current job? Have you held your current job for ten years and can reference back to everything you've done since beginning it? Even if you haven't been at your job for ten years, can you even put your hands on reference material you've used since starting it?

I sure can't.

That's because every little part of your job didn't come from your imagination.

[B]

It didn't really bother me that much until the whole confused about Super Saiyan 2/3 thing. There is no excuse for forgetting about that.

Besides Super Saiyans 1 and 2 looking near identical, it being over 20 years since he wrote it, and his rather blunt admission of not planning anything out? He was asked pretty early in the series run when Dragon Ball would end, and he said at volume ten. Volume flippin' ten. He had no idea what he was in for.

[ABED]

I get not remembering every little detail, but I would think he'd remember the big points.

[FindKenshi]

Oh, I still respect the man.. I mean he created Freeza and Super Saiyan and Buu and all these characters and story elements I love so much.. it's just kind of a major let down to know that while I may feel like Dragonball is awesome, the coolest thing ever, and try to expand my understanding of the story and universe at every opportunity, the guy who made it doesn't care about any of that stuff and may or may not think I'm silly for doing so. Or, put another way, have we wasted our time being Dragonball fans? Maybe we never should have delved this deeply into our fandom. I mean, from Kanzenshuu's prespective, doesn't it kind of trivialize all of Herm's hard work making his guides, and do the same to the Kanzenshuu Encylopedia project? Why document all this stuff, it was just made up on the spot and at times is not at all consistent. -_- Will the SSj2 page in the encyclopedia mention the fact that the author forgot what it was?

[Bussani]

Do you remember every single little thing you've ever done at your current job? Have you held your current job for ten years and can reference back to everything you've done since beginning it? Even if you haven't been at your job for ten years, can you even put your hands on reference material you've used since starting it?

I sure can't.

That's because every little part of your job didn't come from your imagination.

Are you saying that a normal person would remember everything that came from their imagination after this long? Because I sure don't.

It didn't really bother me that much until the whole confused about Super Saiyan 2/3 thing. There is no excuse for forgetting about that.

To be fair, didn't they only call it Super Saiyan 2 once in the story, and that was an offhand comment from Goku like, "I guess you could call it Super Saiyan 2"? For all we know, Toriyama never considered it that different from regular Super Saiyan to begin with, with Super Saiyan 3 being the only one that really set itself apart.

Or, put another way, have we wasted our time being Dragonball fans?

Only if you feel you have. Personally, no matter what Toriyama's feelings are, mine aren't going to change.

I mean, from Kanzenshuu's prespective, doesn't it kind of trivialize all of Herm's hard work making his guides, and do the same to the Kanzenshuu Encylopedia project? Why document all this stuff, it was just made up on the spot and at times is not at all consistent.

Because we (or some of us, I guess I should say?) love it despite those things--maybe even because of them at times.

[Gaffer Tape]

Or, put another way, have we wasted our time being Dragonball fans? Maybe we never should have delved this deeply into our fandom. I mean, from Kanzenshuu's prespective, doesn't it kind of trivialize all of Herm's hard work making his guides, and do the same to the Kanzenshuu Encylopedia project? Why document all this stuff, it was just made up on the spot and at times is not at all consistent. -_- Will the SSj2 page in the encyclopedia mention the fact that the author forgot what it was?

Why would it trivialize anything? Kanzenshuu's not making an encyclopedia (or any of the content on the website) to wrap in a big bow and mail to Toriyama as a gift. All of this stuff is by the fans, for the fans. We get enjoyment out of it, therefore, it's not a waste, no matter what Toriyama's stance on it is. And, again, this is not exactly abnormal for a creator to not necessarily be a hardcore fan of his own work, especially something that hasn't been part of his daily life in decades. I'm sorry, but I'm just not seeing what the big deal is or why this should have any impact on your fandom at all. He isn't a deity, divinely-inspired to present us with a sacred work. He's just a guy, an ordinary human, who had some fun writing and drawing a hugely popular manga series for a while. And then he stopped.

Or, as Firefly once put it, "I expect every man who's had a statue of him put up is some kind of sumbitch or another." Now, I'm not saying Toriyama is some kind of terrible person for not remembering key details of a silly comic book series... because that would be silly. But the point is, people put people they admire on pedestals, and when they do that, they tend to have unrealistic expectations of them when, in reality, they're just regular people who happened to do something that resonated in one way or another.

[bleed0range]

I think AT's forgetfulness restricts him from coming up with a story consistent with his own DB manga *cough* JSAT & BOG *cough*. I genuinely dislike that.

Don't blame Toriyama alone. Everyone who worked on that movie should have caught and fixed in some manner the things that he forgot.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

We're obsessive fans. He's not. Maybe it's true with Toriyama more so than certain other creators, but you'll find that most obsessive fans know more about what they obsess over than their creators.

But in Toriyama's case specifically, it's important to remember that he didn't have some amazingly planned out story. He made it up as he went along, to the point that he would say things like the outcomes of things surprised even him. When you're making things up almost randomly, it's harder to remember them. And I think the most important perspective to remember is that this really hasn't been a part of his everyday life for going on 20 years now! If you don't use it, you lose it.

Really all there is to say. Until Battle of Gods, it had been out of his life for 17/8 years, after drawing weekly manga chapters for a decade. The man's allowed to pull back. Oh look, an in-joke.

[Ringworm128]

If he does have a huge passion for his work he would still be likely to forget, I've came up with heaps of stories and characters and I only remember a handful of them.

[Cursed Lemon]

Is it appealing that he forgot SSJ2?

What is this flub? I've never heard of it.

[Vice]

Besides Super Saiyans 1 and 2 looking near identical, it being over 20 years since he wrote it, and his rather blunt admission of not planning anything out? He was asked pretty early in the series run when Dragon Ball would end, and he said at volume ten. Volume flippin' ten. He had no idea what he was in for.

Uh, yeah, it still bothers me. Even considering all of that.

[Vice]

Are you saying that a normal person would remember everything that came from their imagination after this long? Because I sure don't.

Every little thing? Perhaps not, but Gohan going Super Saiyan 2 was a momentous occasion in the series. Certainly I'd remember that.

To be fair, didn't they only call it Super Saiyan 2 once in the story, and that was an offhand comment from Goku like, "I guess you could call it Super Saiyan 2"? For all we know, Toriyama never considered it that different from regular Super Saiyan to begin with, with Super Saiyan 3 being the only one that really set itself apart.

Like I said, forgetting about a minor character from earlier in the series is one thing, but forgetting about the key part of arguably Gohan's biggest moment in the series is another.

Look, I'm certainly not expecting him to remember every minor detail, but the bigger, important stuff? That should have stayed with him.