Introducing the younger generation to DB

[Dalesy]

True. But it gets by without making these themes the main point of the show. It's purpose is to entertain, not educate.

Yeah, but I think that in a way, that makes it even more effective. Sort of like subliminal messaging

[Kamiccolo9]

True. But it gets by without making these themes the main point of the show. It's purpose is to entertain, not educate.

Yeah, but I think that in a way, that makes it even more effective. Sort of like subliminal messaging

I agree, but the point that I was trying to make earlier was that the supposed lack of these themes, along with it's simplistic takes on setting, characters, etc. is not detrimental to the show, and it shouldn't keep it from appealing to the current generation.

[Hades]

and something like Dragonball, is that Spec Ops is trying to make a point, while being entertaining.

That's like saying A Serbian Film is trying to make a point while being entertaining. Both Spec Ops: The Line and A Serbian Film are too messed up to be entertaining, albeit in different ways. /derail

[Hellspawn28]

I think 5 or 6 would be a good age for Dragon Ball. As long they know it's a cartoon then the violence should be okay.

[Kamiccolo9]

and something like Dragonball, is that Spec Ops is trying to make a point, while being entertaining.

That's like saying A Serbian Film is trying to make a point while being entertaining. Both Spec Ops: The Line and A Serbian Film are too messed up to be entertaining, albeit in different ways. /derail

Interactive media like a video game has a huge advantage over noninteractive media like a tv show though. While playing the game, I can enjoy the gameplay, while at the same time feel guilty about enjoying it due to the story. Games typically do a better job of drawing you into the world.
On the other hand, Dragonball isn't trying to do this. It's just show/telling a fun story. And it does a pretty good job of that.

[Ajay]

Games typically do a better job of drawing you into the world.

I'd say TV shows and movies are equally as good but just in different ways. I think it heavily depends on the film and the game. Many games are more focused on delivering a cinematic experience through linear gameplay than opening the world up to you and telling you get acquainted with it. Of course, masterpieces come along that truly cover both such as The Last of Us but I'd say that's quite a rare occurrence. You could argue that open world RPGs could potentially do that better but then I'd want to bring up something like Lord of the Rings as an example. That has one of the most recognisable worlds in cinema and I'd say it draws you in just as equally as any open world game could.

It's not exclusive to fantasy films either, I'd argue that many people remember the worlds of something like Chungking Express because of its beautiful cinematography that really forces you into that world. I wouldn't say that something like needs to be inherently interactive to be the ultimate form of immersion.

I think both mediums are capable of doing it equally as well.

As for Dragon Ball, well, I personally find it to have some of the most inmersive environments in anime. One of the endless reasons Evolution failed was because it was incapable of truly producing an accurate depiction of both the desert and the city. Those locations are so well ingrained in fans' minds - Namek, for example, has some very unique aspects that make it a very defining location for the series.

[Kamiccolo9]

The main difference between a game and a tv show or movie is that with a game, with some notable exceptions, you are on the inside looking out. You have an impact on what happens, which provides you with a greater level of connection with that world.
With movies, on the other hand, you are on the outside looking in. You have zero impact on what happens, and therefore, no stake in the outcome.

Granted, not all games are like that. You have some that are essentially interactive movies that you play every now and then between cutscenes, but for the most part, games as a medium are more effective at drawing someone in. At least in my opinion.

There is also the fact that games are active entertainment, while movies are passive. You get more involved with games than with movies, which helps build an attachment or connection to the game, and movies lack this.

[Ajay]

There is also the fact that games are active entertainment, while movies are passive.

This is true, an active engagement certainly helps.

You get more involved with games than with movies, which helps build an attachment or connection to the game, and movies lack this.

This I disagree with. You may not have physical control over a film but that doesn't lessen the attachment to it or the emotion intensity it achieves. If anything, a solid focus on character and the world through well directed shots can achieve a much greater sense of attachment than any game could.

In a game you have to break that immersion a lot to produce something viable. Whether that be invisible walls, tall mountains, areas designed in a way that exceeds reality for the sake of good gameplay. In a well directed film, you're not being pulled out of the film until the credits end and to me, that signifies a medium that is much more capable of immersion than gaming - at least at this moment in time.

[Kamiccolo9]

There is also the fact that games are active entertainment, while movies are passive.

This is true, an active engagement certainly helps.

You get more involved with games than with movies, which helps build an attachment or connection to the game, and movies lack this.

This I disagree with. You may not have physical control over a film but that doesn't lessen the attachment to it or the emotion intensity it achieves. If anything, a solid focus on character and the world through well directed shots can achieve a much greater sense of attachment than any game could.

In a game you have to break that immersion a lot to produce something viable. Whether that be invisible walls, tall mountains, areas designed in a way that exceeds reality for the sake of good gameplay. In a well directed film, you're not being pulled out of the film until the credits end and to me, that signifies a medium that is much more capable of immersion than gaming - at least at this moment in time.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree here then
I think it goes without saying that there are examples in both mediums of instances where you get drawn in, but I also feel that, as a whole, games have a general advantage over movies, due to what I've said in my last few posts. This doesn't diminish my appreciation of, using your example, Lord of the Rings, and I'd be the first to admit that numerous games fail completely at immersion. But when games get it right, they pull it off much better than any movie. At least in my opinion

So...yeah. Dragonball. How about that Piccolo, eh? He's a pretty cool guy.

[ABED]

and something like Dragonball, is that Spec Ops is trying to make a point, while being entertaining.

That's like saying A Serbian Film is trying to make a point while being entertaining. Both Spec Ops: The Line and A Serbian Film are too messed up to be entertaining, albeit in different ways. /derail

You really love using "A Serbian Film" as an example. Could you pick a more well known film to make your point?

Games only go so far with the immersive experience. A video game story has never gotten me to well up.

[Ajay]

So...yeah. Dragonball. How about that Piccolo, eh? He's a pretty cool guy.

I know no Piccolo...only Big Green.

[Kamiccolo9]

and something like Dragonball, is that Spec Ops is trying to make a point, while being entertaining.

That's like saying A Serbian Film is trying to make a point while being entertaining. Both Spec Ops: The Line and A Serbian Film are too messed up to be entertaining, albeit in different ways. /derail

You really love using "A Serbian Film" as an example. Could you pick a more well known film to make your point?

Games only go so far with the immersive experience. A video game story has never gotten me to well up.

Then you haven't found the right game I defy anyone to play through Shadow of the Colossus or Ico and not have some emotional reaction. And if you haven't yet, you should really give Spec Ops a try. I doubt you'll well up, but you'll probably feel guilty after playing it.

So...yeah. Dragonball. How about that Piccolo, eh? He's a pretty cool guy.

I know no Piccolo...only Big Green.

Blasphemer.

[ABED]

Guilty about what?

[Jackal puFF]

My nephew can never finish an episode of dragonball z kai.. Or anything dragonball related.. But he's able to finish really bad cartoon network and nick jr shows...

[Kamiccolo9]

Guilty about what?

Spoiler:

The plot's essentially a video game version of Heart of Darkness, and the character you play as gradually falls more and more throughout the story.

Bad stuff happens, with you doing a lot of it.
If you like Zero Punctuation, Yahtzee has a review for it, and he really likes it.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/ ... s-The-Line If you're interested.

[Ajay]

Guilty about what?

Spoiler:

The plot's essentially a video game version of Heart of Darkness, and the character you play as gradually falls more and more throughout the story.

Bad stuff happens, with you doing a lot of it.
If you like Zero Punctuation, Yahtzee has a review for it, and he really likes it.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/ ... s-The-Line If you're interested.

I would put that first sentence in spoiler tags.

Also to ABED - If you do play it, go in blind. It's so much better that way. I went in thinking - ah, just another military shooter, sure why not - and came out astounded at how fantastic it turned out to be. Very poignant.

[Kamiccolo9]

Guilty about what?

Spoiler:

The plot's essentially a video game version of Heart of Darkness, and the character you play as gradually falls more and more throughout the story.

Bad stuff happens, with you doing a lot of it.
If you like Zero Punctuation, Yahtzee has a review for it, and he really likes it.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/ ... s-The-Line If you're interested.

I would put that first sentence in spoiler tags.

Also to ABED - If you do play it, go in blind. It's so much better that way. I went in thinking - ah, just another military shooter, sure why not - and came out astounded at how fantastic it turned out to be. Very poignant.

Good call. Fixed it.

[ABED]

I recognize that many humans have done inhuman things to each other, but even after watching a movie or reading a book about it, I've never felt guilt since I never did those things. I don't feel guilty for my race, my gender, or species.

I find long form storytelling that TV give us allows for a greater emotional connection and impact which is why Kuririn's first death, Goku's victory at the Tenkaichi Budokai, or Wesley's final scene in the series finale of Angel get to me.

I have nothing against games, but I'm not a gamer. I'm not good at them and they are time consuming.

[Kamiccolo9]

I recognize that many humans have done inhuman things to each other, but even after watching a movie or reading a book about it, I've never felt guilt since I never did those things. I don't feel guilty for my race, my gender, or species.

I find long form storytelling that TV give us allows for a greater emotional connection and impact which is why Kuririn's first death, Goku's victory at the Tenkaichi Budokai, or Wesley's final scene in the series finale of Angel get to me.

I have nothing against games, but I'm not a gamer. I'm not good at them and they are time consuming.

That's understandable. There isn't really a universal medium.

[Dalesy]

I recognize that many humans have done inhuman things to each other, but even after watching a movie or reading a book about it, I've never felt guilt since I never did those things. I don't feel guilty for my race, my gender, or species.

Yeah, but that's why a game that thrusts you into the driver seat of bad things can bring that guilt on. Even a game as poorly executed as Modern Warfare 2 (imo) can be a shock to the system during the mission where you shoot up the airport.

Oh, yeah. This forum's for Dragon Ball stuff. Uhh...*starts whistling Romantikku Ageru Yo*