SSJ4 VS SSJG

[dbzfan7]

In a fight Godku would crush SSJ4 Goku. Not only is Godku more powerful and faster, but SSJ4 Goku can't sense SSJG Goku's ki which would make things even easier for Godku.

[TheGmGoken]

In a fight Godku would crush SSJ4 Goku. Not only is Godku more powerful and faster, but SSJ4 Goku can't sense SSJG Goku's ki which would make things even easier for Godku.

The durability of SSJ4 plays a factor though. So he could out last the timelimit. Also Freeza could't sense Goku and will all knew how that fight went(Yes Goku won but look how long it took). So, that might be a point for SSG but I'm pretty sure beyond the limits SSJ4 can hit him and revert both SSJ4 and SSG(Time limit). I honestly have Beyond limits stronger than SSG but SSG more faster.

[dbzfan7]

In a fight Godku would crush SSJ4 Goku. Not only is Godku more powerful and faster, but SSJ4 Goku can't sense SSJG Goku's ki which would make things even easier for Godku.

The durability of SSJ4 plays a factor though. So he could out last the timelimit. Also Freeza could't sense Goku and will all knew how that fight went(Yes Goku won but look how long it took). So, that might be a point for SSG but I'm pretty sure beyond the limits SSJ4 can hit him and revert both SSJ4 and SSG(Time limit). I honestly have Beyond limits stronger than SSG but SSG more faster.

Freeza was far more powerful than Goku and prolonged it on purpose. SSJ Goku did the same thing. I see Godku as way stronger than SSJ4 Goku and possibly SSJ4 Gogeta. Out lasting the time limit does nothing as Goku has almost the same strength even after the time limit. There isn't much of a power down. Omega could have killed Goku if he actually tried to. Though then again GT bullshit kicked in with Base Goku tanking Omega Shenlong attacks.

[TheGmGoken]

In a fight Godku would crush SSJ4 Goku. Not only is Godku more powerful and faster, but SSJ4 Goku can't sense SSJG Goku's ki which would make things even easier for Godku.

The durability of SSJ4 plays a factor though. So he could out last the timelimit. Also Freeza could't sense Goku and will all knew how that fight went(Yes Goku won but look how long it took). So, that might be a point for SSG but I'm pretty sure beyond the limits SSJ4 can hit him and revert both SSJ4 and SSG(Time limit). I honestly have Beyond limits stronger than SSG but SSG more faster.

Freeza was far more powerful than Goku and prolonged it on purpose. SSJ Goku did the same thing. I see Godku as way stronger than SSJ4 Goku and possibly SSJ4 Gogeta. Out lasting the time limit does nothing as Goku has almost the same strength even after the time limit. There isn't much of a power down. Omega could have killed Goku if he actually tried to. Though then again GT bullshit kicked in with Base Goku tanking Omega Shenlong attacks.

The real debate is Base GT Goku vs the entire history of Dragonball .

On Topic: Yes Freeza told with Goku. But he could't sense him. The way you wrote seems to be a big disadvantaged. I wasn't talking about just SSG God Goku. I'm talking just SSgG. The first SSG didn't keep his power obviously. I'm discussing the overall better form and who would win in a fight. Not just SSG Goku vs SSJ4 Goku. Seeing of SSJ4 Durability I think it could out last SSG's time limit. As well as going beyond limits to get one huge attack in.

[dbzfan7]

The real debate is Base GT Goku vs the entire history of Dragonball .

On Topic: Yes Freeza told with Goku. But he could't sense him. The way you wrote seems to be a big disadvantaged. I wasn't talking about just SSG God Goku. I'm talking just SSgG. The first SSG didn't keep his power obviously. I'm discussing the overall better form and who would win in a fight. Not just SSG Goku vs SSJ4 Goku. Seeing of SSJ4 Durability I think it could out last SSG's time limit. As well as going beyond limits to get one huge attack in.

It depends on how strong the user is then.

[TheGmGoken]

The real debate is Base GT Goku vs the entire history of Dragonball .

On Topic: Yes Freeza told with Goku. But he could't sense him. The way you wrote seems to be a big disadvantaged. I wasn't talking about just SSG God Goku. I'm talking just SSgG. The first SSG didn't keep his power obviously. I'm discussing the overall better form and who would win in a fight. Not just SSG Goku vs SSJ4 Goku. Seeing of SSJ4 Durability I think it could out last SSG's time limit. As well as going beyond limits to get one huge attack in.

It depends on how strong the user is then.

Lets say the original SSG and pretend he has SSJ4. SSG doesn't have a power multiplier IMO and is based on the power of the Saiayns giving the energy. IMO SSJ4 has a set power meaning all SSJ4 are even not counting fusion. So Goku is lucky that he had Mystic Gohan(SSJ though so not Mystic), SSJ Gotenks(Goten and Trunks), SSJ Vegeta, and Pan. Or else he would have been weak. Imagine if Vegeta Jr, Goku Jr, Tarble, Baby Pan, Kid Goku, and Saiyan Arc Goku did this. The results won't be the same. So SSJ4 is still the overall better form/

[dbzfan7]

The real debate is Base GT Goku vs the entire history of Dragonball .

On Topic: Yes Freeza told with Goku. But he could't sense him. The way you wrote seems to be a big disadvantaged. I wasn't talking about just SSG God Goku. I'm talking just SSgG. The first SSG didn't keep his power obviously. I'm discussing the overall better form and who would win in a fight. Not just SSG Goku vs SSJ4 Goku. Seeing of SSJ4 Durability I think it could out last SSG's time limit. As well as going beyond limits to get one huge attack in.

It depends on how strong the user is then.

Lets say the original SSG and pretend he has SSJ4. SSG doesn't have a power multiplier IMO and is based on the power of the Saiayns giving the energy. IMO SSJ4 has a set power meaning all SSJ4 are even not counting fusion. So Goku is lucky that he had Mystic Gohan(SSJ though so not Mystic), SSJ Gotenks(Goten and Trunks), SSJ Vegeta, and Pan. Or else he would have been weak. Imagine if Vegeta Jr, Goku Jr, Tarble, Baby Pan, Kid Goku, and Saiyan Arc Goku did this. The results won't be the same. So SSJ4 is still the overall better form/

I kinda want to see if the Choezenshu 4 states anything on SSJG. So far we really have no idea about the form.

[TheGmGoken]

I kinda want to see if the Choezenshu 4 states anything on SSJG. So far we really have no idea about the form.

Correct. That's why I'm going by the fact that even though it was a time limit the original SSG was no where near as strong as Goku SSG. Only because he would have done it fast enough to kill everyone before time limit.

[dbzfan7]

I kinda want to see if the Choezenshu 4 states anything on SSJG. So far we really have no idea about the form.

Correct. That's why I'm going by the fact that even though it was a time limit the original SSG was no where near as strong as Goku SSG. Only because he would have done it fast enough to kill everyone before time limit.

Going off a basic Saiyan I really have no idea as SSJG doesn't have enough details to allow me to make an opinionated conclusion.

[KentalSSJ6]

SSJG is a lot more flexible in terms of its power because it solely comes down to the power of the Saiyan obtaining the form and the power of the Saiyans giving their energy. SSJ4 is easier to determine because even thought it doesent have a official multiplier, it was still obtained alone and uses the Saiyan's own power and not the power of others. That being said any form could beat any form depending on how strong a Saiyan is in base.

For example a hypothetical SSJ Vegeta on Namek wouldent be anywhere near Namek SSJ Goku because their base power was so different. Hell id even wager the original SSJG would get slaughtered by a Cell Saga Goku as back then a Saiyan reaching a power of nearly 10k listed them as elites.

[FoolsGil]

Because they are two different forms, that go in two different directions for the series, it's impossible to say who is stronger between the two. However, Bills is a God. If there is something metaphysical about him that makes him stronger than any mortal, than SSJ4 will not be able to compete with him, while SSJG can.

[KentalSSJ6]

Being a god in DBZ means very little. Kami is a god (in Japanese Kami literally means god), and anyone form the Saiyan arc onward could kill him with ease. The East Supreme Kai is a god, and he was downright frightened of Goku's power when he went SSJ3 and when he threatened him at the world tournament. King Kai and the other Kaioshin are gods as well and King Kai states the Saiyans are stronger than him.

Bills is such a strong god because his godly role is for the sole purpose of destruction, hes meant to be that powerful because his job requires it. He doesent have it merely by being a god. For all we know Bill's whole race could be as strong as him but we know nothing about this guy except hes a Hakaishin.

[Zephyr]

I'd say they're roughly equal.

- SSj4 is said by supplementary material to be roughly equal to SSj Vegetto.

- Beers is implied by supplementary material to be superior to SSj Vegetto.

- Beers is explicitly demonstrated to be superior to SSj God.

So we have all 3 being inferior to Beers, but we don't know who is closer to him or farther than him. Since two of them are on par with each other, why not just make the third one on par with them? Lumping SSj God into the same tier as SSj Vegetto and SSj4 seems the least assumptive to me.

[KentalSSJ6]

The difference of power between SSJ4 and Super Vegito for me is likely the same as say, SSj2 Goku and SSJ2 Teen Gohan. Yes theres a noticeable difference, but not a very large one. Lets say Super Vegito is 100 and SSJ4 would be 80-85.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I'd say they're roughly equal.

- SSj4 is said by supplementary material to be roughly equal to SSj Vegetto.

- Beers is implied by supplementary material to be superior to SSj Vegetto.

- Beers is explicitly demonstrated to be superior to SSj God.

So we have all 3 being inferior to Beers, but we don't know who is closer to him or farther than him. Since two of them are on par with each other, why not just make the third one on par with them? Lumping SSj God into the same tier as SSj Vegetto and SSj4 seems the least assumptive to me.

But there is also Goku's comment, which implies that SSG Goku is on a different level from Super Vegetto.

[The Monkey King]

Can I see the source which says SSJ Vegito >= SSJ4 Goku.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Can I see the source which says SSJ Vegito >= SSJ4 Goku.

Herms translated this, which was written in the extras section.

Merging With Vegeta!
After Goku and Vegeta use a merging item to merge, they become Vegetto! They can furthermore become a Super Saiyan, making them Super Vegetto! After the two strongest people merge, they become the greatest master in the universe! Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4!

[FoolsGil]

Wow. SSJ Vegetto is that strong? Crazy.

[Toriyama-sama]

Well, I've always thought of Super Vegetto as being about as strong as an hypothetical Super Saiyan 4 would be in the Majin Buu arc, so that seems about right to me. Super Saiyan God could possibly be around that level as well.
But the difference between the base forms of late DBZ and GT are so huge there's no way I'd find it reasonable to assume Godku/Beers/Whis can match GT's heavyweights (even those other than Yi Xing Long and Gogeta). Or perhaps the possibly permanent SSJG power-up would be part of the reason why Goku got that strong?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

But the difference between the base forms of late DBZ and GT are so huge there's no way I'd find it reasonable to assume Godku/Beers/Whis can match GT's heavyweights (even those other than Yi Xing Long and Gogeta). Or perhaps the possibly permanent SSJG power-up would be part of the reason why Goku got that strong?

Goku isn't as strong as GT claims him to be. It's a plot-hole.