Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

[Ringworm128]

I don't think it's going downhill, if anything it's gotten better since everything seems more lax here. I can't go on enough about how stupid the over emphasis on strict conversation is. A forum should be a place where people can simply chat with others about the series they like not a place where people act like they're school students competing with each other to get the highest grade on their book report. I think I've also mentioned about a dozen times how idiotic the "but the forum will fall into chaos and eventually die" argument is since I can name several forums from the top of my head that are going just as well as Kanzenshuu without being AS strict.

[jjgp1112]

I don't think it's going downhill, if anything it's gotten better since everything seems more lax here. I can't go on enough about how stupid the over emphasis on strict conversation is. A forum should be a place where people can simply chat with others about the series they like not a place where people act like they're school students competing with each other to get the highest grade on their book report. I think I've also mentioned about a dozen times how idiotic the "but the forum will fall into chaos and eventually die" argument is since I can name several forums from the top of my head that are going just as well as Kanzenshuu without being AS strict.

The problem is that it's both lax and overly serious at the same time. It's starting to resemble your typical forums where people are constantly trying to insult and get in confrontations with another user at the expense of making good posts.

It's lighter, but more mean-spirited, if you get my drift.

[Scarz]

I have no idea who Kunzait is but some folks here seem to think fondly of him. Can someone fill me in why he was special?

[JulieYBM]

I have no idea who Kunzait is but some folks here seem to think fondly of him. Can someone fill me in why he was special?

Kunzait (his penchant for posting disgusting gore aside) was one of the original generation of North American fans (or at least very early second generation). He was a source of great knowledge for information lost to time. What's best is his insight into the kung fu film genre and how Dragon Ball reflected it. Best of all Kunzait would write huge, huge posts rather eloquently. It's a shame he decided to erase all of his posts, they were some of the best on the site.

[bkev]

A lot of the older, more mature users are gone and in their place are younger guys who keep trying to make this place into Reddit-lite.

Yeah, that's why I was kinda excited when I saw Kunzait was back, but then he left again right away and sent me a PM saying he's probably not ever coming back as far as he can tell.

It's also other little things (the grammar rules don't seem to get enforced as heavily as they used to)

DEFINITELY this too. I don't expect (nor really want) little things like slight errors and a missed comma corrected, but why has this thread's title still not been corrected? I've noticed more near illegible posts slipping through the cracks lately (can't remember specifics of course).

Yeah, I've noticed that grammar warnings seem to be going down in number as well. Instead it seems posts are silently corrected and many people don't seem to care enough to fix their posting style after that kind of enforcement. It seems the issues that no longer get addressed are formatting/writing and instead the corrections focus solely on spelling.

[ShadowDude112]

NeptuneKai, Kunzait, RoarkVegeta, Dayspring, Tweaker, MajinVejitaXV, SaiyanProfessor, SSJ_Rambo all left. Recently Big Momma came back. Kendamu rarely comes here nowadays.

We had a user named Blue that used to come here and was on twitter. They were cool, but something happened that wasn't so bad but they blew it up, from what I've heard. Tweaker doesn't come on because after his child molestation accusations they were true in January 2012. After that he disappeared from the internet. He's not a mod on here, but I don't think he's banned. I know for a fact he's banned on Sonic Retro, a site he was an admin on. Dayspring just kinda disappeared. Those ones are always the worst. But, you know, they're still living their lives, so there's nothing wrong with that, that's all that matters. I PM'd SSJ_Rambo back in like April, he's still active. So yeah, that's what happened to some of those members.

Admins and mods, if the Tweaker part is bad, you can delete it. But, I was just trying to help clear up what happened.

[Metalwario64]

Tweaker doesn't come on because after his child molestation accusations they were true in January 2012. After that he disappeared from the internet. He's not a mod on here, but I don't think he's banned. I know for a fact he's banned on Sonic Retro, a site he was an admin on.]

I remember finding out about that. I was considering making a thread about it back when I did, because he was part of the clean up crew here. I just didn't know if it was appropriate, and didn't know if it was proven true or not (and didn't until now since I kinda forgot about it).

Guess that explains why he always had the boy characters from Dragon Ball as his avatars everywhere?

But yeah man, that list of older members who've left is kinda disheartening. I guess that's part of why the place has felt more empty the past year or so to me. I'm not always logged in, but I at least glance at the newest posts almost daily, and have done so since I joined.

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

Well. I have to say yes and no. I honestly think we're just running out of things to talk about.

We're "running out of things to talk about"...then how the hell have you managed 4138 posts between now and April?

Tweaker doesn't come on because after his child molestation accusations they were true in January 2012. After that he disappeared from the internet. He's not a mod on here, but I don't think he's banned. I know for a fact he's banned on Sonic Retro, a site he was an admin on.]

I remember finding out about that. I was considering making a thread about it back when I did, because he was part of the clean up crew here. I just didn't know if it was appropriate, and didn't know if it was proven true or not (and didn't until now since I kinda forgot about it).

Guess that explains why he always had the boy characters from Dragon Ball as his avatars everywhere?

Have to admit, I don't recall ever seeing this Tweaker fella', so I ran a quick Google search.
http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=27758
This guy was on this forum? Where is he now? Looking through his old posts, I can sorta see where this, I dunno, came from. Puts things into perspective in a way.

[Godo]

About the quality of discussion part:

I have to be honest felt for quite some time that the quality has been lacking. Not in the way that people don't put good thought or effort into writing posts, it is rather that the whole emphasis on the subjects we discuss has changed.
If we are talking about powerlevels, initially it was a good mix of whole-hearted, half-hearted and joke lists. After a while it has progressed into a hardcore win or lose, formula based, accurate to the decimal discussion and list making.

Another example would be strength debate threads. Although the likes of Gohan SSJ2 or not, SSJ2 Gohan vs. Dabra, Which form of Buu is the strongest, SSJ3 Goku stronger than Ultimate Gohan have pretty much always been filled with anger and heated discussion (which was given and pretty much expected), this has also been flowing over into other threads.
I guess by letting those go on for too long at times, we have shown that behaving like you do on those threads is acceptable.
And man, have the strength threads exploded!

But what I miss the most is the versatility of discussions that we used to have. One question could be given a lot of different and well founded answers that didn't all lead to "that's whats official, so STFU".
A lot of the old timers really put a lot of thought into their posts and dissected a lot of topics.
Mind you, I have never been one of them as I preferred to goof around and write nonsensical stories or give rather pointless comments (and I still do), although at times I did my best.

And I too miss some of the old timers as well. They are what I remember the most as the members of the good ol' Daizex forums.
And badass VegettoEX. Remember how he used to ban people back in the days? Swinging his bat and all that.

I remember though when there was a time when the first thing I did was to log on here and I was pretty active back then.
Whether it is age, too little time or just the loss of interest in topics that are discussed is a good question though.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

NeptuneKai, Kunzait, RoarkVegeta, Dayspring, Tweaker, MajinVejitaXV, SaiyanProfessor, SSJ_Rambo all left. Recently Big Momma came back. Kendamu rarely comes here nowadays.

We had a user named Blue that used to come here and was on twitter. They were cool, but something happened that wasn't so bad but they blew it up, from what I've heard. Tweaker doesn't come on because after his child molestation accusations they were true in January 2012. After that he disappeared from the internet. He's not a mod on here, but I don't think he's banned. I know for a fact he's banned on Sonic Retro, a site he was an admin on. Dayspring just kinda disappeared. Those ones are always the worst. But, you know, they're still living their lives, so there's nothing wrong with that, that's all that matters. I PM'd SSJ_Rambo back in like April, he's still active. So yeah, that's what happened to some of those members.

Admins and mods, if the Tweaker part is bad, you can delete it. But, I was just trying to help clear up what happened.

What do you mean by blowing up?

[ShadowDude112]

NeptuneKai, Kunzait, RoarkVegeta, Dayspring, Tweaker, MajinVejitaXV, SaiyanProfessor, SSJ_Rambo all left. Recently Big Momma came back. Kendamu rarely comes here nowadays.

We had a user named Blue that used to come here and was on twitter. They were cool, but something happened that wasn't so bad but they blew it up, from what I've heard. Tweaker doesn't come on because after his child molestation accusations they were true in January 2012. After that he disappeared from the internet. He's not a mod on here, but I don't think he's banned. I know for a fact he's banned on Sonic Retro, a site he was an admin on. Dayspring just kinda disappeared. Those ones are always the worst. But, you know, they're still living their lives, so there's nothing wrong with that, that's all that matters. I PM'd SSJ_Rambo back in like April, he's still active. So yeah, that's what happened to some of those members.

Admins and mods, if the Tweaker part is bad, you can delete it. But, I was just trying to help clear up what happened.

What do you mean by blowing up?

From what I was told, there was like, a back and forth, and Blue made it sound worse than it was. That's what I heard, anyways.

[El Diabeetus]

Perhaps a little bit, but my thoughts pretty much echo the likes of Metalwario64, jjpg1112, DBKHD, Godo, etc.

I visit the forums everyday, still enjoy it a lot here. But, a lot of the discussions aren't as appealing to me. But I always gravitated toward the Fan-Created Works section, and Dragon Ball Kai sections the most. The occasional post in the General Discussion (other than the BoG thread and multiple dub discussions since I find those interesting) and Video Games. Rarely look at the In-Universe section, not my cup of tea there (other than Herms' guides/translation thread).

It is a bummer to see most of the names listed not being active anymore, especially with Kunzait. I was shocked to see him posting not too long ago, the thread JulieYBM is referring to. I remember he used to have essays upon essays of well thought out responses to whatever the discussion was. It seems odd to be getting nostalgia from my earlier (joined late 2007 while in 8th grade/14 years old, damn.) Daizex days.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

You can use WayBack Machine to go back to whatever the year you wish to go and check out some of Kunzait's posts.

[Makaioshin]

Kunzait (his penchant for posting disgusting gore aside) was one of the original generation of North American fans (or at least very early second generation). He was a source of great knowledge for information lost to time. What's best is his insight into the kung fu film genre and how Dragon Ball reflected it. Best of all Kunzait would write huge, huge posts rather eloquently. It's a shame he decided to erase all of his posts, they were some of the best on the site.

I loved reading his posts when I lurked here. I had hoped that he would finally create that wuxia thread he talked about making but I guess he is gone...

[JulieYBM]

Dang, I'm getting a robots.txt on http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/ so I can't use the Wayback Machine. Hmm...

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

Check out this thread:

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... it=kunzait

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... it#p376180

Just look at all the awesome posts made by older members. Pretty much sums up all the posts I made in this thread.

[Metalwario64]

Dang, I'm getting a robots.txt on http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/ so I can't use the Wayback Machine. Hmm...

NOOO!! Kunzait's posts are lost forever to the memory of time!!

(great line from the Kai dub btw) :p

[Li'l Lemmy]

I don't know that I'd cite this as a quality issue so much as it might be normal, ongoing fluctuations in the member makeup. The general conversational style of the board can and does change on a regular basis based on how many new folks sign up and what established folks go. The board today is different from what it was in 2010, which in turn differed from when I signed up in 2005... and if I go back even further and look at posts from 2004, a difference of just one year, even THAT is a completely different animal. It's not that the quality of the discussions has changed so much as that the people who are having them are different and converse in different ways.

The franchise itself isn't particularly static, either. Something that is supposed to be a dead series is receiving almost constant updates with new animations, characters, stories, music, video games and even new versions of the same ol' thing (Kai), and has had these continuing additions at a steady pace for years now. It brings in not just new fans, but even new kinds of fans (and yes, especially young ones). It means that no discussion can't be new to a lot of people, even though many of us old timers have seen those same discussions beaten to death numerous times, and while it is certainly everyone's responsibility to learn the Forum Rules that guide those discussions, what they are and the fact that two people can have a discussion in completely different ways might look repetitive when it actually isn't.

[Shiyonasan]

It brings in not just new fans, but even new kinds of fans (and yes, especially young ones). It means that no discussion can't be new to a lot of people, even though many of us old timers have seen those same discussions beaten to death numerous times, and while it is certainly everyone's responsibility to learn the Forum Rules that guide those discussions, what they are and the fact that two people can have a discussion in completely different ways might look repetitive when it actually isn't.

This is very true, and probably a reason why I don't log in and post as much anymore. Having been on the forum almost 5 years, I feel like I've seen the same discussions many times before. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but I've been there, done that, and had that discussion.

On a different note, I've actually felt like the quality of discussion has been greater than as compared to the past 2 or 3 years. There are a lot of intelligent members on here even nowadays with great points of view and rhetoric that I could never hope to match. I often don't log in because I feel it's best to leave them to discuss their topic and for me to stay out of it so I won't disrupt it.

Also, I will agree that it's a shame to see some of the older members gone. Those first couple of years were interesting with some of the comradery and shenanigans that went on with those members. Good times...

[Hellspawn28]

I feel like what if topics and character stronger then character B gets annoying sometimes. It's kinda like how it is on Toho Kingdom where you have threads for unmade film projects that can get more attention then a thread for a lost dub that has been found.