Goku's "Kili" measurement?

[Zidiane]

Keep in mind Gohan's fighting sense was pathetic compared to Vegeta or Goku's during that time. Gohan didn't know what he was talking about. Goku was toying around with Yakon, he probably just went SSJ to prove a point to Yakon about being able to see in the dark then when he knew Yakon could absorb his energy figured I will just kill him by over feeding him.

I think Goku could have easily dispatched Yakon without even becoming a SSJ.

This is how I see it.

[Super Vegetto]

I don't know why is it so hard to understand the quote i posted, but i will try again in simple way:

Gohan says that Goku shouldnt use SSJ because he will loose it.

He says that he will help Goku, because he can't beat Yakkon without SSJ.

That is a power statment he talks about and that says how Base Goku probably wouldn't be able to defeat Yakkon alone (exept if he used Kaio ken).


Loosing fighthing sense doesn't mean not figuring out that something is diffrent about Spopo.

Even Goku was suprised in his abbility to fly, so did Goku lost his fighthing sense if he fought Spopo at equal level ?

True warrior should never underestimate anything, and Goku shouldn't be suprised in Spopos abbility to fly. That's why Gohan has nothing to do with this.


Monkey D Goku :

Gohan didn't know what he was talking about ? Even Vegeta didn't know what is Goku doing when he was warned to not go SSJ anymore, witch means he also knew that Goku can't win if he is alowing him to eat his SSJ energy.

Just few panels later he suposed that Goku has a plan to win using SSJ form, and we could assume that Gohan also assumed like this. Otherwise he would jump in help while Yakkon was eating his energy second time...

[Monkey D Goku]

I don't know why is it so hard to understand the quote i posted, but i will try again in simple way:

Gohan says that Goku shouldnt use SSJ because he will loose it.

He says that he will help Goku, because he can't beat Yakkon without SSJ.

That is a power statment he talks about and that says how Base Goku probably wouldn't be able to defeat Yakkon alone (exept if he used Kaio ken).


Loosing fighthing sense doesn't mean not figuring out that something is diffrent about Spopo.

Even Goku was suprised in his abbility to fly, so did Goku lost his fighthing sense if he fought Spopo at equal level ?

True warrior should never underestimate anything, and Goku shouldn't be suprised in Spopos abbility to fly. That's why Gohan has nothing to do with this.




Gohan didn't know what he was talking about ? Even Vegeta didn't know what is Goku doing when he was warned to not go SSJ anymore, witch means he also knew that Goku can't win if he is alowing him to eat his SSJ energy.

Just few panels later he suposed that Goku has a plan to win using SSJ form, and we could assume that Gohan also assumed like this. Otherwise he would jump in help while Yakkon was eating his energy second time...

I see where the problem lies in your logic. Your overestimating Yakon's abilities.

Goku was toying around with Yakon in his normal form. The only reason he went SSJ in the first place was to tell Yakon that he had another way of seeing him in the dark. He didn't do it because he needed the transformation. Goku could have easily beat him just by sensing him.

Vegeta was not surprised by Goku going SSJ in fact he assured everyone that Kakarot has a plan. He was more suprised by how much energy Goku was outputting and began question his own strength in comparison.


So really the only people that were worried about Goku needing help were
Gohan: simply because he hasn't fought or trained in so long his fighting sense dulled over time. Further shown by the fight with Dabura.
Supreme Kai: He also overestimated Yakon's abilities and underestimated the Saiyan's.

[Tyro]

Goku had misjudged Yakon from before they even fought; he assumed that he was going to be slow based on his appearance. But not only was Goku able to dodge several quick attacks he wasn't ready for, he even managed to dodge Yakon's gigantic hidden claws that he didn't have any clue about.

In the Dark World I think it's fair to say the kick Goku landed on Yakon was because Yakon came at Goku thinking he'd be an easy kill now that he couldn't see, but it helps show that Yakon wasn't as reflexive as Goku was to misconceptions about his opponent.

Everything points to Goku being stronger in base, at least to me.

[KentalSSJ6]

Goku had misjudged Yakon from before they even fought; he assumed that he was going to be slow based on his appearance. But not only was Goku able to dodge several quick attacks he wasn't ready for, he even managed to dodge Yakon's gigantic hidden claws that he didn't have any clue about.

In the Dark World I think it's fair to say the kick Goku landed on Yakon was because Yakon came at Goku thinking he'd be an easy kill now that he couldn't see, but it helps show that Yakon wasn't as reflexive as Goku was to misconceptions about his opponent.

Everything points to Goku being stronger in base, at least to me.

Everything comes down to base. Even if you had SSJ3, if your power level was 50, youd still get one shot by the majority of the Namek saga.

[Super Vegetto]

I don't know why is it so hard to understand the quote i posted, but i will try again in simple way:

Gohan says that Goku shouldnt use SSJ because he will loose it.

He says that he will help Goku, because he can't beat Yakkon without SSJ.

That is a power statment he talks about and that says how Base Goku probably wouldn't be able to defeat Yakkon alone (exept if he used Kaio ken).


Loosing fighthing sense doesn't mean not figuring out that something is diffrent about Spopo.

Even Goku was suprised in his abbility to fly, so did Goku lost his fighthing sense if he fought Spopo at equal level ?

True warrior should never underestimate anything, and Goku shouldn't be suprised in Spopos abbility to fly. That's why Gohan has nothing to do with this.




Gohan didn't know what he was talking about ? Even Vegeta didn't know what is Goku doing when he was warned to not go SSJ anymore, witch means he also knew that Goku can't win if he is alowing him to eat his SSJ energy.

Just few panels later he suposed that Goku has a plan to win using SSJ form, and we could assume that Gohan also assumed like this. Otherwise he would jump in help while Yakkon was eating his energy second time...

I see where the problem lies in your logic. Your overestimating Yakon's abilities.

Goku was toying around with Yakon in his normal form. The only reason he went SSJ in the first place was to tell Yakon that he had another way of seeing him in the dark. He didn't do it because he needed the transformation. Goku could have easily beat him just by sensing him.

Vegeta was not surprised by Goku going SSJ in fact he assured everyone that Kakarot has a plan. He was more suprised by how much energy Goku was outputting and began question his own strength in comparison.


So really the only people that were worried about Goku needing help were
Gohan: simply because he hasn't fought or trained in so long his fighting sense dulled over time. Further shown by the fight with Dabura.
Supreme Kai: He also overestimated Yakon's abilities and underestimated the Saiyan's.

There is no problem in my logic. He wasn't toying with him at all. He only managed to evade his attack in dark and kicked him one time, that Yakkon wasn't expecting at all. It was made to show and explain how Goku doesn't nead eyes to fight, not because he was toying with him.

He went SSJ because he neaded it. I don't say that Goku can't beat Yakkon in Base if he used Kaio ken, but it seams that 2 Base Saiyans can take down Yakkon, without transforming or anything.

He was wondering why Goku went SSJ again. Later he stated that he should have plan, because transforming woulnd't make any sense.

He was wondering before Goku used SSJ2 burst, so your point is wrong.

It doesn't mean that Gohan is wrong in aything because he wasn't training like others. It just doesn't make sense.

Supreme Kaioshin: “S-so that’s why these 3 have such composure...In a pinch, they can put forth tremendous power, like Son Goku displayed momentarily…”

That is what was suprising to him because he didn't know about that...

[Zidiane]

Gohan says that Goku shouldnt use SSJ because he will loose it.

This is true, exactly as you wrote it.

He says that he will help Goku, because he can't beat Yakkon without SSJ.

Like I said earlier, Gohan only offers assistance AFTER Goku says he will use SSJ again. Think about it, Goku literally says he's going to use SSJ to beat an opponent who eats SSJ energy. That's like hearing Goku say he's going to use a second Kamehameha against Android 19. It sounds crazy, and Gohan obviously didn't think his Father had control of the situation. He believes Goku can't beat Yakon without SSJ, true, but only because Goku says "I'm going to transform again".

I really don't know what else to say, dude.

Loosing fighthing sense doesn't mean not figuring out that something is diffrent about Spopo.

And unfortunately for Gohan, he's lost both his fighting sense and his ability to tell when something is wrong with Spopovich.

Even Goku was suprised in his abbility to fly, so did Goku lost his fighthing sense if he fought Spopo at equal level ?

True warrior should never underestimate anything, and Goku shouldn't be suprised in Spopos abbility to fly. That's why Gohan has nothing to do with this.

Opponent has no ki. This means that the opponent shouldn't be able to do a few things: Take the damage he did, hit as hard as he did, fly, and launch energy. Goku saw him do something he shouldn't be able to and immediately knew something was wrong, whereas Gohan didn't.

I mean, we are talking about characters who can look deep into a person's energy and see the well of power they have, whether they're hiding it or have not yet discovered it. The only thing they've ever run into that seemed to be capable of being unreadable was Majin Boo (no one could see his true power) and the androids. It has nothing to do with underestimating Spopovich if he had no ki.

Fact is Gohan is not the sharpest fighter in the room at this point in the story.

Goku had misjudged Yakon from before they even fought; he assumed that he was going to be slow based on his appearance. But not only was Goku able to dodge several quick attacks he wasn't ready for, he even managed to dodge Yakon's gigantic hidden claws that he didn't have any clue about.

In the Dark World I think it's fair to say the kick Goku landed on Yakon was because Yakon came at Goku thinking he'd be an easy kill now that he couldn't see, but it helps show that Yakon wasn't as reflexive as Goku was to misconceptions about his opponent.

This too. Yakon attacks Goku while Goku is underestimating him, and Goku completely avoids the attack. Yakkon attacks Goku while underestimating Goku, and Goku easily avoids it and lands a clean attack on him (or several in the anime). Points to an advantage to Base Goku. At very most you could say Goku wouldn't have beaten Yakkon without getting hit (which I don't see how you could, seeing as he dodged everything Yakon had when he wasn't ready).

[Super Vegetto]

Again. He says that he will help Goku, because he can't beat Yakkon without SSJ.

He says that because he knows that Yakkon will eat his SSJ energy, and that he can't beat him without SSJ.

There is no point to even say something like that if it's not true. Do you get it now ?


Gohan didn't lost sensing power. He only didn't know that Spopo has power far surpassing his abbilites. There is no nead for both Gohan and Goku explaining same thing. It wouldn't make any sense.

Goku didn't complity avoided attack. He almost riped him in half.

Goku saw him coming, and he didn't expect that. That's the reason of Yakkon's suprised look.

Anime doesn't matter, and no he wouldn't because Gohan says so.

[TheMightyOzaru]

There's this thing called Gohan underestimated Goku .

[Super Vegetto]

There's this thing called Gohan underestimated Goku .

He underestimated his abbilities of SSJ/SSJ2 burst, but not his Base...