Great Ape Vegeta

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Kaio said he "has no strength", not that he's tired. Kaio even thinks Vegeta could possibly defeat Goku without Oozaru. He's weaker

[Kakashi]

Kaio said he "has no strength", not that he's tired. Kaio even thinks Vegeta could possibly defeat Goku without Oozaru. He's weaker

He has no strength meaning he has no strengh to use Kaioken IMO

[Kamiccolo9]

Kaio said he "has no strength", not that he's tired. Kaio even thinks Vegeta could possibly defeat Goku without Oozaru. He's weaker

He has no strength meaning he has no strengh to use Kaioken IMO

You realize that if you just acknowledge that it is your opinion from the beginning, instead of stating them as fact, discussions you engage in would flow a lot more smoothly, right?

Quotes like

Goku is not weaker at all

and

Being hurt makes a lot of difference. Gohan was able to fight almost evenly with Vegeta after he lost his ape form. That would be impossible if Vegeta wasn't hurt and had already lost most of his power.

Vegeta was hurt because he got his butt raped by Goku

sound like you're stating your positions as fact, and aren't likely to be well received by people here.

And, just a pet peeve of mine, could you please use punctuation? If you are just going to make one sentence replies, at least type them properly.

[Kakashi]

Kaio said he "has no strength", not that he's tired. Kaio even thinks Vegeta could possibly defeat Goku without Oozaru. He's weaker

He has no strength meaning he has no strengh to use Kaioken IMO

You realize that if you just acknowledge that it is your opinion from the beginning, instead of stating them as fact, discussions you engage in would flow a lot more smoothly, right?

Quotes like

Goku is not weaker at all

and

Being hurt makes a lot of difference. Gohan was able to fight almost evenly with Vegeta after he lost his ape form. That would be impossible if Vegeta wasn't hurt and had already lost most of his power.

Vegeta was hurt because he got his butt raped by Goku

sound like you're stating your positions as fact, and aren't likely to be well received by people here.

And, just a pet peeve of mine, could you please use punctuation? If you are just going to make one sentence replies, at least type them properly.

Doesn't matter. Goku talks as the Kaioken x5 would be even stronger than the Kaioken x4 Kamehameha. Not facts. i said "IMO"

I used punctuation and Goku's comment when he said not even a Kaioken x5 would beat Great Ape Vegeta pretty much implies it's even greater than the Kaioken x4 he used before

[TheGmGoken]

Kaio said he "has no strength", not that he's tired. Kaio even thinks Vegeta could possibly defeat Goku without Oozaru. He's weaker

He has no strength meaning he has no strengh to use Kaioken IMO

Which makes Goku weaker. What about 8,000. Compare that to early when he did use Kaioken. Vegeta is 18k at max. Vegeta losing power from KK Kamehameha(perhaps he did) and Oozaru energy ball would't put Vegeta all the way down to 8k. Lastly I'm pretty sure Kaio meant actual power strength since DB writing isn't complex. Kaio would have said he doesn't have enough energy(or strength) to use Kaioken. Not just to say he doesn't have power left.

Goku talks as the Kaioken x5 would be even stronger than the Kaioken x4 Kamehameha.

It would most likely be stronger than a Kaioken x4 kamehameha

Not facts. i said "IMO"

Kamicollo QUOTED moments where you implied some things were facts.

I used punctuation and Goku's comment when he said not even a Kaioken x5 would beat Great Ape Vegeta pretty much implies it's even greater than the Kaioken x4 he used before

Even though he was weaker and Kaiokenx5 should be stronger than Kaiokenx4.

Say Goku was 8k. 8 x 4 = 32. So that's 32k.
Now say Goku got weaken to like 7k x 5 = 35k. That's still stronger than an 8k Kkx4

[Kamiccolo9]

Doesn't matter. Goku talks as the Kaioken x5 would be even stronger than the Kaioken x4 Kamehameha. Not facts. i said "IMO"

I used punctuation and Goku's comment when he said not even a Kaioken x5 would beat Great Ape Vegeta pretty much implies it's even greater than the Kaioken x4 he used before

i said "IMO"

Obviously not.

[Saiga]

If Vegeta got weaker too, which is what Kaio says, then Goku got weaker. Simple.

[Kakashi]

Goku says EVEN if he takes it up to Kaioken x5, he would still be no match. He makes it sound that a Kaioken x5 would be greater than the Kaioken x4 he used on Vegeta. Kaio could of meant that he has no strength left to use the Kaioken. He never said he got weaker

Chapter: 233 (DBZ 39), P11.3
Goku: “Even if I raise the Kaio-Ken to x5, it still won't have any effect on him!!!!”


The key word is "raise" meaning a stronger attack than he used before.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

All that means is Oozaru Vegeta would be too strong for his Kaio-Ken x5 power. I don't see why Kaio wouldn't be referring to anything but Goku's strength.

[Kakashi]

All that means is Oozaru Vegeta would be too strong for his Kaio-Ken x5 power. I don't see why Kaio wouldn't be referring to anything but Goku's strength.

Even the Kaioken x5 won't do anything meaning a stronger attack than he did previously. The Kanzenshuu power levels also says Oozaro Vegeta is > 40,000 based on that quote

Kaio justsaid Vegeta can win because Goku haad no strength to keep up his Kaioken. He was tired.