Please don't get him started...Cursed Lemon wrote:100% Freeza who "wasn't even a challenge" to a brand new SSJ Goku?
Bojack's power compared to other characters
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Blade
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Re: Bojack's power compared to other characters
'Multiculturalism means nothing in Japan, for every outside culture must pass first through the Japanese filter, rendering it entirely Japanese in the process.' - Julian Cope.
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RandomGuy96
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Re: Bojack's power compared to other characters
Ah, got it. Thanks.Blade wrote:He has this theory that 100% Freeza is incredibly powerful. He has outlined it in a couple of other threads that aren't too hard to find if you're interested - although they have all descended into less-than-savory affairs.RandomGuy96 wrote:The fuck?I would put Bojack, in terms of pure strength, below Perfect Cell/100% Freezer. In terms of being a better fighter, I think PC has more techniques and more abilities than Bojack in every single sense, but on the other hand, I don't know if the difference between him and PC/100% Freezer in brute force would be big enough for 100% Freezer to be able to kill him or injure him enough before the power drain of using his 100% state would eventually put him at a disadvantage.
Essentially it's best not to ask him to explain it in this thread as to not risk derailing it, which I'm fairly certain it would.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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freezamite
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Re: Bojack's power compared to other characters
Well then, I also assume that Yajirobee was stronger than Goku Kaioh Ken x2 during the fight against Vegeta, at around 17.000 units of strength according to you. I mean, it's not a coincidence that he hurt Vegeta on the back while KKx2 Goku didn't hurt him at all even when he connected more hits.Cursed Lemon wrote:100% Freeza who "wasn't even a challenge" to a brand new SSJ Goku?
100% Freezer who was at basic SSJ Goku's level is the same than Vegeta when was hurt by Yajirobee, a special circumstance that made that possible (SSJ Goku at full strength vs badly injured Freezer).
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SSJ4_Zankuto
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Re: Bojack's power compared to other characters
Okay answer this. Why did Son Goku tell him to use Super Saiyan 2 against Bojack? It's probably hinting Bojack is an opponent that cannot be defeated by just Super Saiyan and even Vegeta and Trunks tried their best and failed. Super Saiyan Gohan is above Perfect Cell (power up vs goku) as King Kai has said.freezamite wrote:But Perfect Cell wasn't fighting with all his strength against Goku, and in fact, he did what he wanted with FP Gohan despite him being stronger than Goku while still not using his maximum strength.SSJ4_Zankuto wrote:Bojack at full power is definitely stronger than Perfect Cell (power up vs. Goku) when I saw Bojack evading Super Saiyan Full Power Gohan's attacks.
I would put Bojack, in terms of pure strength, below Perfect Cell/100% Freezer. In terms of being a better fighter, I think PC has more techniques and more abilities than Bojack in every single sense, but on the other hand, I don't know if the difference between him and PC/100% Freezer in brute force would be big enough for 100% Freezer to be able to kill him or injure him enough before the power drain of using his 100% state would eventually put him at a disadvantage.
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freezamite
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Re: Bojack's power compared to other characters
But what I don't understand is why it has to be Perfect Cell with the strength he used against Goku unless I misunderstand this "power up vs goku" sentence. Goku told Gohan to turn SSJ2 because the strength Gohan had as a SSJ was not enough to defeat Bojack, but it's as if you're forgetting that FP SSJ Gohan was also totally trounced by Cell, and Cell wasn't even at his maximum strength.SSJ4_Zankuto wrote:Okay answer this. Why did Son Goku tell him to use Super Saiyan 2 against Bojack? It's probably hinting Bojack is an opponent that cannot be defeated by just Super Saiyan and even Vegeta and Trunks tried their best and failed. Super Saiyan Gohan is above Perfect Cell (power up vs goku) as King Kai has said.
Re: Bojack's power compared to other characters
Cell dealt Gohan next to zero damage and Gohan wasn't even fighting back.freezamite wrote:But what I don't understand is why it has to be Perfect Cell with the strength he used against Goku unless I misunderstand this "power up vs goku" sentence. Goku told Gohan to turn SSJ2 because the strength Gohan had as a SSJ was not enough to defeat Bojack, but it's as if you're forgetting that FP SSJ Gohan was also totally trounced by Cell, and Cell wasn't even at his maximum strength.SSJ4_Zankuto wrote:Okay answer this. Why did Son Goku tell him to use Super Saiyan 2 against Bojack? It's probably hinting Bojack is an opponent that cannot be defeated by just Super Saiyan and even Vegeta and Trunks tried their best and failed. Super Saiyan Gohan is above Perfect Cell (power up vs goku) as King Kai has said.
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freezamite
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Re: Bojack's power compared to other characters
He also didn't want to harm Gohan before making him angry, and without using all his strength. And we can also compare the effect of the punches they receive from SSJ2 Gohan. Cell survives although injured, while Bojack is insta-killed.Draken wrote:Cell dealt Gohan next to zero damage and Gohan wasn't even fighting back.freezamite wrote:But what I don't understand is why it has to be Perfect Cell with the strength he used against Goku unless I misunderstand this "power up vs goku" sentence. Goku told Gohan to turn SSJ2 because the strength Gohan had as a SSJ was not enough to defeat Bojack, but it's as if you're forgetting that FP SSJ Gohan was also totally trounced by Cell, and Cell wasn't even at his maximum strength.SSJ4_Zankuto wrote:Okay answer this. Why did Son Goku tell him to use Super Saiyan 2 against Bojack? It's probably hinting Bojack is an opponent that cannot be defeated by just Super Saiyan and even Vegeta and Trunks tried their best and failed. Super Saiyan Gohan is above Perfect Cell (power up vs goku) as King Kai has said.
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Saitou Hajime
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Re: Bojack's power compared to other characters
Cell didn't know about Gohan's rage boost until he got told about it. Before that he was hitting him with the intent to kill and actually thought he had killed him until he was shown otherwise.freezamite wrote: He also didn't want to harm Gohan before making him angry, and without using all his strength.
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freezamite
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Re: Bojack's power compared to other characters
Yes, but that wasn't Cell's maximum power. He still did what he wanted with Gohan all the time, I mean, Bojack surpassing FP SSJ Gohan it's not a proof that he could surpass PC, because PC also was above FP SSJ Gohan.Saitou Hajime wrote:Cell didn't know about Gohan's rage boost until he got told about it. Before that he was hitting him with the intent to kill and actually thought he had killed him until he was shown otherwise.freezamite wrote: He also didn't want to harm Gohan before making him angry, and without using all his strength.
Re: Bojack's power compared to other characters
Bojack is stronger than the Super Saiyans, but weaker than Super Saiyan 2. It's what we see and it's all we know. Doesn't need to be any more to it than that.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Bojack's power compared to other characters
Is it like that? Vegeta was acting like SS Gohan was strong enough to beat Dabra, but it was taking too long because he had gotten rusty.Duo wrote:Bojack is stronger than the Super Saiyans, but weaker than Super Saiyan 2. It's what we see and it's all we know.
Except if you believe that Gohan was a Super Saiyan 2 against Dabra.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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DannyDBZfanforever
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Re: Bojack's power compared to other characters
Bojack is weaker than Perfect Cell.
Nevertheless, Bojack, Perfect Cell and Dabra are are very similar (something like - 10>20% (max).
Nevertheless, Bojack, Perfect Cell and Dabra are are very similar (something like - 10>20% (max).
Re: Bojack's power compared to other characters
Gohan was very clearly not Super Saiyan 2 against Dabra, if that counts for anything on my part. That said, Ssj Gohan in Movie 9 may have been on par with Bojack (he mainly gets worn down by the various minions), but there's not much in the film to make that easy to take into account. Besides that, Vegeta gets pushed aside pretty easily. While he was not as strong as Gohan, that does show Bojack as being a pretty potent fighter in the scheme of things. AKA probably similar to the villain he was based around, Cell.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Is it like that? Vegeta was acting like SS Gohan was strong enough to beat Dabra, but it was taking too long because he had gotten rusty.Duo wrote:Bojack is stronger than the Super Saiyans, but weaker than Super Saiyan 2. It's what we see and it's all we know.
Except if you believe that Gohan was a Super Saiyan 2 against Dabra.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Bojack's power compared to other characters
Shit, I thought that you were talking about Dabra for some reason... my bad.Duo wrote:Gohan was very clearly not Super Saiyan 2 against Dabra, if that counts for anything on my part. That said, Ssj Gohan in Movie 9 may have been on par with Bojack (he mainly gets worn down by the various minions), but there's not much in the film to make that easy to take into account. Besides that, Vegeta gets pushed aside pretty easily. While he was not as strong as Gohan, that does show Bojack as being a pretty potent fighter in the scheme of things. AKA probably similar to the villain he was based around, Cell.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Is it like that? Vegeta was acting like SS Gohan was strong enough to beat Dabra, but it was taking too long because he had gotten rusty.Duo wrote:Bojack is stronger than the Super Saiyans, but weaker than Super Saiyan 2. It's what we see and it's all we know.
Except if you believe that Gohan was a Super Saiyan 2 against Dabra.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.