What Made Dragon Ball Better Than Dragon Ball Z?

[Kamiccolo9]

How are tournament poor storytelling devices?

How is Kuririn a more interesting character than Tenshinhan?

No comment on the first, but I find Krillin more interested because he's more developed. Tenshinhan's character arc is pretty much over in the section he's introduced in, while Krillin is, in my opinion, a much more complex, developed, character, with more pronounced faults and strengths, and he has a much greater bond with other characters in the series, which allows for greater and more interesting interaction than that provided by Tenshinhan, who is a loner.

[dbboxkaifan]

1. Story didn't feel like they were always trying to bring in new enemies, but instead, going on an adventure to meet new folks and for Son he'd look for his grandpa's Dragon Ball.

2. Comedy -- Dragon Ball has a great portion of humour throughout the series whereas Dragon Ball Z lacked it as it tried to make it "too serious".

3. Music was placed at its appropriate moments and the variety of BGMs was done rightfully, plus the silent moments were great too. Dragon Ball Kai really should've took notes from Dragon Ball for its music department.

4. Son was the main character at all times and being that this was the first with him, Masako Nozawa did a spectacular voice acting and then hearing Teen Son really showed how much she changed her voice for Kid Son & Teen Son. The other characters were secondary and such, still had their moments, too.

5. Pace -- It felt smooth and they didn't rush it out like it has happened in Dragon Ball Kai's Great Saiyaman arc which was horrible.

The only thing I didn't exactly like were the title cards for the Tenkaichi Tournament episodes, they took a bit too long to appear.

[ABED]

How are tournament poor storytelling devices?

How is Kuririn a more interesting character than Tenshinhan?

No comment on the first, but I find Krillin more interested because he's more developed. Tenshinhan's character arc is pretty much over in the section he's introduced in, while Krillin is, in my opinion, a much more complex, developed, character, with more pronounced faults and strengths, and he has a much greater bond with other characters in the series, which allows for greater and more interesting interaction than that provided by Tenshinhan, who is a loner.

For the record, I wasn't claiming Kuririn or Tenshinhan is better. I was simply asking for an opinion. Kuririn's arc is shorter than Tenshinhan's. He's more or less the same character from the 21st Budokai onward. I wouldn't consider him a complex character. He wears his heart on his sleeve.

[TheGmGoken]

Cell being the worst villain is not true IMHO. That'll go to RRA and Boo. Both waa boring and RRA was poor in terms of everything. Dbz did have a better supporting cast honestly. Db everyone job until Goku. People don't pay attention and forget the only two useless human was Yamcha and Chazou

[Kamiccolo9]

How are tournament poor storytelling devices?

How is Kuririn a more interesting character than Tenshinhan?

No comment on the first, but I find Krillin more interested because he's more developed. Tenshinhan's character arc is pretty much over in the section he's introduced in, while Krillin is, in my opinion, a much more complex, developed, character, with more pronounced faults and strengths, and he has a much greater bond with other characters in the series, which allows for greater and more interesting interaction than that provided by Tenshinhan, who is a loner.

For the record, I wasn't claiming Kuririn or Tenshinhan is better. I was simply asking for an opinion. Kuririn's arc is shorter than Tenshinhan's. He's more or less the same character from the 21st Budokai onward. I wouldn't consider him a complex character. He wears his heart on his sleeve.

I also consider him taking on the role of leader of the group in the Namek Arc, his relationship with Marron in the anime, and his portrayal in the Cell Arc as development. Tenshinhan got less exposure, and never really had a chance to shine after his initial arc.

But again, I may be a bit biased as Krillin is my second favorite character, especially in the Namek Arc.

[Kid Buu]

He shoved them to the background because they were useless duds that got replaced by far superior and more interesting characters and rightly so. Krillin and Piccolo weren't pushed aside because they were interesting.

Piccolo is basically just a green Tenshinhan anyway, while Yamcha's character development is far more interesting than anything Kuririn went though.

Anyway I think in terms of strorytelling Toriyama went into decline after Namek, with Buu being the weakest arc. As for fights itself, it went downhill after Saiyan.

[ABED]

The RRA arc had some fun characters like Tao Pai Pai, Karin, Cyborg 8, Ninja Murasaki, and even Blue.

I don't agree that DBZ had the better supporting cast. Bulma, Kuririn, Muten Roshi, Fortuneteller Baba, Yajirobe, and Tenshinhan all were excellent. I don't hate Yamcha as many seem to.

[TheGmGoken]

He shoved them to the background because they were useless duds that got replaced by far superior and more interesting characters and rightly so. Krillin and Piccolo weren't pushed aside because they were interesting.

Piccolo is basically just a green Tenshinhan anyway, while Yamcha's character development is far more interesting than anything Kuririn went though.

Anyway I think in terms of strorytelling Toriyama went into decline after Namek, with Buu being the weakest arc. As for fights itself, it went downhill after Saiyan.

I'll disagree and say the fighting lower after Namek. It was great fighting until after wards. The anime was always top notch with fighting thouyh

[thatdbzguy]

He shoved them to the background because they were useless duds that got replaced by far superior and more interesting characters and rightly so. Krillin and Piccolo weren't pushed aside because they were interesting.

Firstly, there's not a single character in all of DB that's "interesting". They're all face-value characters. Secondly, Toriyama made the humans into useless duds because he's not a good writer. Good writers know how to balance out character attention fairly.

That's funny considering DB had far worse villains like the gag villains Pilaf, Boss Rabbit, Red. The limp wristed Blue and the stereotype Black. The only good villain in DB was Piccolo. Freeza is better than every DB villain combined.

DB's villains might not have all been intimidating, but they were fun. Cell was not.

DBZ had plot in between it's fights. Tournaments are poor storytelling devices and a third of DB involved these Tournaments. The fights had more variety but everything else happening around it was non existent.

DBZ had a bad, uninteresting plot going on between it's fights, so that's not really much better. Besides, the tournaments didn't need to have a real plot to them because they were character-driven story elements that focused more on character interaction and development.

[ABED]

Face value doesn't make someone or a character inherently less interesting.

Good writers know how to balance out character attention fairly.

Where do you get this stuff? In a comic book, the title character gets the attention, and the side characters will get a lot less. They will get moments where they shine, but it doesn't mean it "balances".

the tournaments didn't need to have a real plot to them

The tournaments were the plot.

[Luso Saiyan]

Firstly, there's not a single character in all of DB that's "interesting".

That's not a fact, so don't treat it as such.

[thatdbzguy]

Face value doesn't make someone or a character inherently less interesting.

It does if your characters are one to two dimensional. Which DBZ's are.

Where do you get this stuff? In a comic book, the title character gets the attention, and the side characters will get a lot less. They will get moments where they shine, but it doesn't mean it "balances".

Of course the main character gets the most attention. However, a good author still finds ways for making the side characters at least somewhat significant. Toriyama just tossed Chiaotzu and others out of any sort of signifigance whatsoever.

The tournaments were the plot.

But the tournament itself wasn't the primary focus, it was the characters.

[Bullza]

Firstly, there's not a single character in all of DB that's "interesting". They're all face-value characters.

You really don't need to force your gimmick on us so hard you know, we got it already.

Toriyama made the humans into useless duds because he's not a good writer. Good writers know how to balance out character attention fairly.

I don't care, that excuse doesn't stop the fact that they are duds that got replaced by far better and more characters.

DB's villains might not have all been intimidating, but they were fun. Cell was not.

They weren't fun, they were a joke and not in a good way. They had nothing going for them and DBZ villains still run circles around them.

DBZ had a bad, uninteresting plot going on between it's fights,

While DB had just no plot going on between it's fights.

Besides, the tournaments didn't need to have a real plot to them because they were character-driven story elements that focused more on character interaction and development.

Which DBZ had also, moreso while also having a plot.

[Kid Buu]

He shoved them to the background because they were useless duds that got replaced by far superior and more interesting characters and rightly so. Krillin and Piccolo weren't pushed aside because they were interesting.

Piccolo is basically just a green Tenshinhan anyway, while Yamcha's character development is far more interesting than anything Kuririn went though.

Anyway I think in terms of strorytelling Toriyama went into decline after Namek, with Buu being the weakest arc. As for fights itself, it went downhill after Saiyan.

I'll disagree and say the fighting lower after Namek. It was great fighting until after wards. The anime was always top notch with fighting thouyh

Okay I can agree with that.

Buu Arc started off great and had some good bouts like Goten Vs. Trunks, but I found myself bored after Vegeta's death.

[dbzfan7]

Ok I'm finding these threads of yours becoming really disrespectful to DBZ. It's one thing to point out dislikes, but insulting the material to such a degree like is just disrespecting fans who like DBZ. These characters have inspired other Manga artists as well as people to do better with their lives. They hold dear to a lot of kids and adults around the world.

Same with the stories. I can personally say the first arc of DB bored me. Goku was just really really dumb and needed to be told to save someone. Bulma's an annoying bitch, Yamcha and Oolong were kinda interesting, and the villains down right bored me. The 21st budokai besides the ending was so predictable excluding the ending. It was obvious Goku and Krillin would beat nameless mooks, which is why the developed Muten Roshi had to be used as the only real challenge. The only real good RRA stuff for me was Blue and Tao Pai Pai. Other then that I was just looking at punching bags ready to be beaten. The 22nd stepped things up finally with Tenshinhan and Chaozu being built up as rivals, however they quickly become a whole lot less interesting once they aren't villains anymore. Only the Mafuba made Tenshinhan still cool to me, but just cause of the move. Daimao started good, and then lost momentum after Muten Roshi's Mafuba. Seeing Daimao conquer was so boring as he just walked into one place...and that's it. Final battle was pretty good though. Once you saw Piccolo at the tourney and knew that Goku was trained by God, it was obvious that everyone would get shoved aside for Goku vs Piccolo again. Tao Pai Pai's return wasn't so great, and neither was God vs Piccolo. So in the end I'm left with one good match as everything else was a lol stomp for Goku or Piccolo if they so choose.

I still love both series a whole lot. Only reason I might prefer Dragon Ball is because the powers are more grounded rather than out of this world. Other than that I enjoy both.

[FortuneSSJ]

Humour and Adventure.
Even though the first one in portuguese dub is always present.

[ABED]

It does if your characters are one to two dimensional. Which DBZ's are.

Vegeta says hi.

Of course the main character gets the most attention. However, a good author still finds ways for making the side characters at least somewhat significant. Toriyama just tossed Chiaotzu and others out of any sort of signifigance whatsoever.

You're very vague. Significant in what sense? Chaozu had significance early on. He played a part in Tenshinhan's arc.

But the tournament itself wasn't the primary focus, it was the characters.

I don't know what this means. They went hand in hand.

While DB had just no plot going on between it's fights.

You may not like the plots, but there were plots.

I don't care, that excuse doesn't stop the fact that they are duds that got replaced by far better and more characters.

To you, but plenty of us find Tenshinhan to be a very interesting character that was underutilized.

[TheGmGoken]

Okay I can agree with that.

Buu Arc started off great and had some good bouts like Goten Vs. Trunks, but I found myself bored after Vegeta's death.

To me Goku vs Vegeta round 2 was horrible in manga like Toriyama didn't know how to draw fights. Goten vs Trunks was only good fight in Boo arc manga. Hence why Boo arc is the worst and has the worst villain. The humor suck and action was poor. I did love Namek arc humor. Ginyu force rules! Db never had me bored, dbz had me Bored boo arc only. Last thing I like Dbz related was EOB and Cell arc.

[thatdbzguy]

Vegeta says hi.

Just because Vegeta went through a bad-guy-to-good-guy development, that doesn't automatically make him not a 2-dimensional character. When he was a villain, the most his character was was a whiner. When he became good, he became a Piccolo-clone.

You're very vague. Significant in what sense? Chaozu had significance early on. He played a part in Tenshinhan's arc.

But what significance happened to Chiatzou himself? He never developed as a character, he just went along with whatever Ten decided to do.

I don't know what this means. They went hand in hand.

The focus was on the characters more than it was the lore of the tournament itself.

[Wibbs]

The focus was on the characters more than it was the lore of the tournament itself.

What kind of lore does a tournament need? It's a place where people go to beat the crap out of each other for money, nuff said.