Why can't they do more with these games?

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Re: Why can't they do more with these games?

Post by dbboxkaifan » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:28 pm

Bullza wrote:I just don't understand how they can be so lazy with them.
If they only have 12 months to develop a game they can't really do everything they want and saying they're being lazy is uncalled for.
Bullza wrote:Why is it so hard for them to do something different?
Either Bandai Namco thinks it's the way to go or they prefer that genre.
Bullza wrote:The Naruto Storm game allowed to travel around the villages, take on bonus objectives, collect items, buy things from shops like weapons and items and other things. It stopped the game from being constant fight after fight, gave it some variety.
This all kinda reminds me from Dragon Ball: Origins' games and if they have extra time to work on these things then go ahead but primarily they need to make the gameplay, characters playability and graphics all be in its best.
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Re: Why can't they do more with these games?

Post by DonieZ » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:31 pm

Bullza wrote:
What do they lack? Time.
Then why can't they make time rather than rushing out quick cash grabs? The Storm games had a two year gap between them (Generations was a placeholder). Why do they have to make one game a year? Surely if they spent more time to make a better game it'd sell more in the long run.
You don't know? You've been here awhile, I guess no one cares to talk about it anymore. Namco Bandai are bound by contract by Shuesia/Toei to make one home console DB game a year in order to keep making DB games. That's the only reason they've been doing what they've been doing.

Treevax has me under the impression that this new game has been given quite an extended development period, and it seems to me that these terrible games that have been released over the past one or two years have just been to create time for Xenoverse. I could be wrong.


Anyway, my point was that you have no evidence of the developers being lazy. The lack in the quality of games for the past 5/6 (?) years are due primarily to lack of time and lack of innovation. Saying Spike are lazy is giving them the benefit of doubt that they are holding back their ability. They have no ability.

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Re: Why can't they do more with these games?

Post by Bullza » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:26 pm

That's Rb2 not Rb1. RB2 looks like shiny
Shouldn't be an excuse for a game that came out two years after but this is what he looked like in RB1 and it's still not as good. They just reused the character models from the PS2 games so of course they don't look as good.

Image
Don't fix what's not broken
Such things are to be said about the gameplay not stages. Just create another stage that's not broken don't be lazy and just give us the same stage. Tekken didn't do that nonsense. Imagine if they kept reusing the same maps over and over in Call of Duty.

This recycling was done amongst stages, character models, music, sound effect and moves. It's just lazy, incredibly lazy.
Storm series sucks ass.
They got better reviews than the PS2 games and a hell of a lot better reviews than all the DBZ games on PS3.
I'm not impress with original stories. Already seen in with the Ps2 games.
Not with DBZ though and that's the problem. Ever since Tenkaichi 2 did the whole story all the games after have just retold the same story over and over with nothing new to be interested in.
There's more. Which game you're looking at.
Ultimate Ninja 4. At least in Hero Mode the cutscenes are mostly slides with voice or like it's like the pre fight "cutscenes" in Tenkaichi 2. No other non Storm game told the story as well as Storm 3 did, not even close.
Why not the the quality of the Ultimate Ninja series?
Because the Storm games are better but I'd take that too. The games have been terrible since Burst Limit.

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Re: Why can't they do more with these games?

Post by Bullza » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:39 pm

Saying Spike are lazy is giving them the benefit of doubt that they are holding back their ability. They have no ability.
No they are lazy. You say they're let down because they only have a year so they're limited in time yet they had two years in between Tenkaichi 3 and Raging Blast and that didn't stop that game from being mostly recycled content and even worse.

They had a year between the Tenkaichi games on PS2 and those games added a lot and were clearly better by the game. That can not be said for the PS3 games where they've actually gotten worse by the game.

The Naruto games come out a year apart and that didn't stop them from adding in more characters, original characters, a new story, original animation, four player coop etc. Spike have the same amount of time but there's a fraction of the amount of change.

Even with a year to develop a game there is no reason whatsoever to stop them from creating a new story and having new characters. They actually take characters OUT of the games. They took the story mode OUT of Raging Blast 2.

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Re: Why can't they do more with these games?

Post by InfernalVegito » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:05 pm

Bullza wrote:Who on earth would agree with that?
I would. I am of the contention that RB1's graphics are the most authentic to date. It actually looks like the anime compared to anything else. BL's graphics are far too shiny and glossy. The models are overshaded and the transition from shadows to light textures are too crass in my view. I have no clue why they revised them again for RB2 and UT because RB1 looked almost perfect aside its unfortunate paleness and wonky facial expressions.
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Re: Why can't they do more with these games?

Post by TheGmGoken » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:12 pm

The Rb1 picture looks amazing.
. Imagine if they kept reusing the same maps over and over in Call of Duty
The MW2(or MW3) was later reused with slight modification in Black ops 2 Dlc
They got better reviews than the PS2 games and a hell of a lot better reviews than all the DBZ games on PS3.
So...I'm suppose to care for a review. It's their opinion. Just review the game yourself. Don't say why reviews matter in this since its my opinion.
Not with DBZ though and that's the problem
A original story is nesscary?
Because the Storm games are better but I'd take that too. The games have been terrible since Burst Limit.
The Strom games aren't better and Burst Limits was boring.

Ultimate Ninja 4. At least in Hero Mode the cutscenes are mostly slides with voice or like it's like the pre fight "cutscenes" in Tenkaichi 2. No other non Storm game told the story as well as Storm 3 did, not even close
Ultimate Ninja 4 had better Open World. Ultimate ninja had better story mode.

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Re: Why can't they do more with these games?

Post by Bullza » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:18 am

The Rb1 picture looks amazing.
For a PS2 game. It literally looks like a something you'd see in a HD remaster of Tenkaichi 3. And I just noticed that the stage in the background I think is the same stage recycled from Tenkaichi 1?
The MW2(or MW3) was later reused with slight modification in Black ops 2 Dlc
Yeah that was Nuketown, one map for Multiplayer that was incredibly popular and still saw change. How many times have they recycled maps in the Spike games, it's not like they were incredibly popular that people were begging for them to come back and they were part of the main game.

It's completely different.
So...I'm suppose to care for a review. It's their opinion.
Of course it is but they still know what they're talking about. Also look at the user scores. A 8.2 for Storm 2 a 7.8 for Storm 3 compared to a 6.6 for Raging Blast 2 and a laughable 5.4 for Ultimate Tenkaichi and 5.6 for Battle of Z.
A original story is nesscary?
Absolutely, people are fed up of the same thing all the time. People don't want to keep fighting the same people in the same stage over and over again, it's repetitive and boring. A new original story allows to stand out from the rest and people will be more likely to take notice.

You can see all the comments on the youtube videos of people asking who the red haired guy, it's sad that something as trivial as that is what stand out and it the talking point.
The Strom games aren't better and Burst Limits was boring.
Tell that to all the critic and user reviews and also the sales. Raging Blast had nothing going for it that Tenkaichi 3 didn't already have and had better.
Ultimate ninja had better story mode.
It didn't at all, Storm 3 was a more detailed, longer and made use of far more characters while having vastly superior boss battles and other things going for it.

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Re: Why can't they do more with these games?

Post by TheGmGoken » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:12 pm

Yeah that was Nuketown, one map for Multiplayer that was incredibly popular and still saw change. How many times have they recycled maps in the Spike games, it's not like they were incredibly popular that people were begging for them to come back and they were part of the main game.

It's completely different.
The MW series did NOT have Nuketown re read my post. I said some maps from the MW series appeared in BO2 with slight modification.

For a PS2 game. It literally looks like a something you'd see in a HD remaster of Tenkaichi 3. And I just noticed that the stage in the background I think is the same stage recycled from Tenkaichi 1?
Looks better than Burst Limit.

Of course it is but they still know what they're talking about. Also look at the user scores. A 8.2 for Storm 2 a 7.8 for Storm 3 compared to a 6.6 for Raging Blast 2 and a
Rb2 had a official review saying it's a con that you have to unlock stuff. Another review said it a con when a Tekken game was hard. I don't use reviews. I use my own fan opinion. I review my own games. Some fan reviews place RB2 over BL.

Absolutely, people are fed up of the same thing all the
Correction. Y'all WANT a original story. Y'all don't NEED a original story.

, it's sad that something as trivial as that is what stand out and it the talking point.
How is that sad? It's a guy with red hair....with an ugly ass outfit. Shit I'll talk bout him too.
Tell that to all the critic and user reviews and also the sales. Raging Blast had nothing going for it that Tenkaichi 3 didn't already have and had better
Critics- opinion
Review- opinion
Sales - opinion and money.
These are ways are expressing opinions. I like the games and so I buy them and give good reviews on it.
It didn't at all, Storm 3 was a more detailed, longer and made use of far more characters while having vastly superior boss battles and other things going for it.
Strom 3 also had more material to go for. However it's not longer as Ultimate Ninja 3 and 4 had an original story during the story. Then another one post the story.

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Re: Why can't they do more with these games?

Post by Bullza » Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:39 pm

The MW series did NOT have Nuketown re read my post. I said some maps from the MW series appeared in BO2 with slight modification.


That's right it was Black Ops. Either way it's not the same because they were a couple of DLC maps with changes and not the exact same maps in the main game and it was more than a couple.
Looks better than Burst Limit.


Burst Limit looked like next gen graphics. The designs have more depth, they look smoother, better lighting and they're more versatile. If you saw the two characters move and speak then Burst Limit's would involve more animation.

Then there's the cutscenes, the stages, the special effects etc. It looked cinematic while RB was incredibly bland.
Correction. Y'all WANT a original story. Y'all don't NEED a original story.


We definitely need it. People are buying these games less and less because they're tired of the same old. The series does need something new and in the form of a story and characters.

They could change up the gameplay but if the story was the same then people won't care.
How is that sad?


They showed a trailer for a new next gen DBZ game that showed off gameplay and yet the thing that people are most interested in is some unknown guy with red hair that shows up for a few seconds.

The reason for that is because it stands out so much. You immediately think "A new character! Does this mean theres a new story! Oh my god something different!" All over something that should be so trivial.
These are ways are expressing opinions.


Opinions are everything. Critics and user opinions affect sales which affects the way the series will be approached down the line. The consensus shows that people have not been impressed with DBZ games since Tenkaichi 3. Each game is getting a worse reception than the previous games and sales are dropping alongside it.

Likewise effort gets put into the Naruto games, people like them, they sell and so they continue putting effort into them.

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Re: Why can't they do more with these games?

Post by TheGmGoken » Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:55 pm

That's right it was Black Ops. Either way it's not the same because they were a couple of DLC maps with changes and not the exact same maps in the main game and it was more than a couple.
No. I know Nuketown came back. I said. Mordern Warfare series maps(IW) were on Black Ops 2 as well with slight changes.
Burst Limit looked like next gen graphics. The designs have more depth, they look smoother, better lighting and they're more versatile. If you saw the two characters move and speak then Burst Limit's would involve more animation.

Then there's the cutscenes, the stages, the special effects etc. It looked cinematic while RB was incredibly bland.
The special effects and transformation looked much better than BL. Not to mentioned BL stages looked like a green screen effect not a stage. This sums up why RB had better graphics.
InfernalVegito wrote:
Bullza wrote:Who on earth would agree with that?
I would. I am of the contention that RB1's graphics are the most authentic to date. It actually looks like the anime compared to anything else. BL's graphics are far too shiny and glossy. The models are overshaded and the transition from shadows to light textures are too crass in my view. I have no clue why they revised them again for RB2 and UT because RB1 looked almost perfect aside its unfortunate paleness and wonky facial expressions.
We definitely need it
I had a topic about them making a original story. I want one I don't need one. I'm not going to die or her hurt without it. They the developers need it for money. But WE don't need it.
some unknown guy with red hair that shows up for a few seconds.
That's not sad. Most are curious. When I saw Freeza return and Trunks appeared. I was focus on Trunks. Is that sad? Shouldn't I be focus on the plot?
Opinions are everything. Critics and user opinions affect sales which affects the way the series will be approached down the line. The consensus shows that people have not been impressed with DBZ games since Tenkaichi 3. Each game is getting a worse reception than the previous games and sales are dropping alongside it.

Likewise effort gets put into the Naruto games, people like them, they sell and so they continue putting effort into them.
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You just repeated what I said. .

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Re: Why can't they do more with these games?

Post by UltWarrior1 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:10 pm

If XENOVERSE isn't different, what is? Its clear they're going in a different direction with this title. We could possibly have a create-your-own character in this game. Story mode is also going to vary from the standard norm. I like the innovation (which is also borrowing from ideas from DBO) from DIMPS/BANDAI NAMCO.

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Re: Why can't they do more with these games?

Post by NitroEX » Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:42 pm

TheGmGoken wrote:
For a PS2 game. It literally looks like a something you'd see in a HD remaster of Tenkaichi 3. And I just noticed that the stage in the background I think is the same stage recycled from Tenkaichi 1?
Looks better than Burst Limit.
:lol: I'm sorry but you're wrong. Burst Limit was a visual masterpiece in comparison to RB 1 and 2. Not only was the cell shading and auras better in BL but the animations were too, the movements actually had clear momentum and sped up/slowed down very well without seeming awkward and robotic. As an added bonus they included motion blur which just made everything look easier on the eyes compared to RB's clunky movements.

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Re: Why can't they do more with these games?

Post by TheGmGoken » Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:49 pm

NitroEX wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote:
For a PS2 game. It literally looks like a something you'd see in a HD remaster of Tenkaichi 3. And I just noticed that the stage in the background I think is the same stage recycled from Tenkaichi 1?
Looks better than Burst Limit.
:lol: I'm sorry but you're wrong. Burst Limit was a visual masterpiece in comparison to RB 1 and 2. Not only was the cell shading and auras better in BL but the animations were too, the movements actually had clear momentum and sped up/slowed down very well without seeming awkward and robotic. As an added bonus they included motion blur which just made everything look easier on the eyes compared to RB's clunky movements.
Not sure if you read it. But my above post explains why I think it's better

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Re: Why can't they do more with these games?

Post by NitroEX » Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:03 pm

TheGmGoken wrote:
NitroEX wrote:
:lol: I'm sorry but you're wrong. Burst Limit was a visual masterpiece in comparison to RB 1 and 2. Not only was the cell shading and auras better in BL but the animations were too, the movements actually had clear momentum and sped up/slowed down very well without seeming awkward and robotic. As an added bonus they included motion blur which just made everything look easier on the eyes compared to RB's clunky movements.
Not sure if you read it. But my above post explains why I think it's better

I still don't agree with it and I'm sure the majority wouldn't either. Side by side BL wins in terms of visuals 9 times out of 10. I mean some of the BL screenshots still give Xenoverse a run for it's money and Xenoverse is on next gen.

Image
Image

The game is gorgeous and I think on a purely visual level it holds up better than RB or any of the games that came after it. RB 2 was god awful with the ugly porcelain doll looking characters and the awkward "I look like I'm chewing on a rock when I talk" animation. I agree that the first Raging blast was better looking than those games but it's not on the level of BL.

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Re: Why can't they do more with these games?

Post by TheGmGoken » Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:06 pm

Only found BL graphics good during Goku Vs Freeza aka cutscenes. Regular fighting looks like a green screen with plastic action figures. Raging blast 2 was plastic dolls. I mean Barbie dolls :lol:

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Re: Why can't they do more with these games?

Post by DarkPrince_92 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:22 pm

Spike was good at copying animations from the show, for Super Attacks, but only that. They couldn't make dialogue look more bland even if they tried. All of Dimps games had way more believable and realistic motions even in the most basic of movements; and of course always delivered on their Super Moves and Ultimate moves (not counting Shin Budokai/Burst Limit) as well.

I'll admit, RB1 had the anime look for the most part, but in motion it's far from good. Burst Limit had better character models, even though they were way too shiny sometimes. Burst Limit's motion blur was unnecessary, but it was a nice touch none the less. And the stage backgrounds look way more faithful to the anime in BL, much nicer textures, more vibrant colors. RB1 & 2 are culprits of poor and genereic stage textures, looks like a PS2 game in high def. But to a degree I understand because the fighting takes place in a much wider space and it must be more difficult to make an entire space like that look amazing.

Anyway, to each his own. For obvious reasons people would prefer the look of Burst Limit over the Raging Blast games. It looks better... and plays better. But whatever, some people like the bronze metal more than silver apparently.
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Re: Why can't they do more with these games?

Post by InfernalVegito » Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:34 pm

See, these kind of images are exactly what I was talking about. I don't find the textures and some of the special effects aesthetically pleasing at all, at least compared to RB1. In the examples above, for instance, in the first shot the shading is so overblown. The shadow on Goku's right eye looks like a burnt hole just like the thick shadows across his chest. They are so distracting and not subtle at all. It creates such big contrast to the light texture of his skin. Moreover, the outlines on his body and hair are too dark and thick which makes him look like a doughy plastic toy which shines too much. Then the second one the aura is so volatile and undefined it's as if he's dousing in Fanta. Furthermore, his face is so lit and glossy due to the effects that it becomes hardly defined just as the stern shadows on his bangs. However, in that shot his chest is far better and almost looks like it could have been from the series itself because the transition from shadow to light is more subtle, that is the shadows aren't too dark and the light skin isn't too light or shiny.

Here, for example, even BT3 was more refined in that regard.
The left one is how it looks in the game and the shadows across his body do not conflict or contrast too much with the light skin. I know it depends on scene to scene and where the actual light comes from and in what intensity, but overall it does not change too much from the way it looks here. If anyone can find a better picture for comparison, go for it.

In RB1 it is the same except in HD and thus cleaner and sharper.
To me this looks as if it could have been ripped straight from the anime series itself. Freezer's look, his sharply defined and clean body as well as the unobtrusive and defined shading make it almost like the series.

In motion it probably looks better. Take this video here as an example. Pay attention to the first few seconds when Vegeta stands there. He looks clean, sharp and the shading on his body on the right side and on his gloves is not too crass. The lines demarcating his muscles are not too thick and dark, making for a subtle transition between dark and light textures. Overall, this looks just like the anime. And I am not talking about the way he stands there so stiffly or the way his mouth moves. That's absolutely not my point and doesn't factor into my preferring of RB1's graphics over that of BL for example. Obviously things could definitely be improved in that regard.

Now RB1 it stays mostly the same as in BT3. It has the most accurate color palette and subtle shading in my view, making it look - I'll repeat: look - like the series. I am not talking about all the special effects, auras, facial expressions, the backgrounds and animations. I am solely talking about the way the characters' outward appearance is, that is the models' textures. And in that regard I think RB1 is still untouched.
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Re: Why can't they do more with these games?

Post by Bullza » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:05 pm

I said. Mordern Warfare series maps(IW) were on Black Ops 2 as well with slight changes.


I dont know really which or what you mean but any maps BO2 reused I dont recall being in the main game whereas Spike recycled several maps several times in the main game.
The special effects and transformation looked much better than BL.


They looked better in the way that they were stylistically because Burst Limit's transformations were quick and seamless with the game but graphically they weren't better. The auras are terrible in comparison.

The graphics were nothing more than a HD coating of the PS2 stages and characters. It all just looks really bland and boring.
But WE don't need it.


Well technically we dont need most things, we dont need to have more than 10 characters but the series needs it if it wants to survive. DBZ games have terrible for a while now, people are losing interest getting tired of doing the same thing, the games have little to no selling points.

It does need something to get people interested again and that's just something new. If they did the same thing as Revolution with a new story and some new character designs and animation to go with it, it'd sell.
When I saw Freeza return and Trunks appeared. I was focus on Trunks. Is that sad? Shouldn't I be focus on the plot?


That was just an episode not a product trying to sell. This guy who shows up for a few seconds with his back to us is the most interesting thing to come out of these games in a very long time and that's really sad. People are curious more so than they would be if it were some other game because it's very unexpected for DBZ.
You just repeated what I said.
Yeah but you seem to be writing them off. It's not just an opinion, it effects everything.

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Re: Why can't they do more with these games?

Post by TheGmGoken » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:18 pm


I dont know really which or what you mean but any maps BO2 reused I dont recall being in the main game
They were. Just like Spike did. They looked just alike. In BO2. And they aren't even the "same" company and they reused maps.
They looked better in the way that they were stylistically because Burst Limit's transformations were quick and seamless with the game but graphically they weren't better. The auras are terrible in comparison.
Even the quick transformation in RB looked better. Even graphic wise. BL looks like action figures you buy from EBay with the stages looking like a green screen. I don't feel like I'm on the stage. I feel like I'm fighting and the stage is a background.
Well technically we dont need most things, we dont need to have more than 10 characters
That's true. Depending how accurate they want to tell s story. Though 10 is good for a original story. Not in today era though. Db Sagas had bout 10 playable characters.
his back to us is the most interesting thing to come out of these games in a very long time and that's really sad.
How? Pretty sure that was the POINt to make him the most talked about.
Yeah but you seem to be writing them off. It's not just an opinion, it effects everything.
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It is just an opinion. Opinions always effect something. My opinion is I like the games. The effect I buy them. My opinion I dislike Strom. So I rented the games.

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Re: Why can't they do more with these games?

Post by Bullza » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:18 am

They were. Just like Spike did. They looked just alike. In BO2. And they aren't even the "same" company and they reused maps.
From what I can see there was a map in Black Ops that was later used again in the main game of Black Ops 2 but was still different. There was another map from Black Ops that was in Black Ops 2 as DLC which was also different and then there was Nuke Town which I mentioned earlier and was a bonus pre order thing.

That's not the same as what DBZ has done where they've the exact same map from several years old back on the PS2. The Call of Duty games still add a lot of new maps while the games the DBZ games did not.

Tenkaichi 3 had 23 stages of which most had evening and night settings as well. Raging Blast, a sequel on next gen consoles had ONLY 10 stages with at least half of those maps being recycled from past games. How is that not lazy?

Where's Outer Space? Kami's Lookout? Roshis Island? Glacier? Penguin Village? Mt Paozu? Hell? The Time Chamber? etc If they're just recycling maps then why not include them too?

Raging Blast 2 brought back every map from the previous games and added just four new maps (not sure if they were recycled from other games though). Likewise Storm 2 had twice as many maps as the previous game.
BL looks like action figures you buy from EBay with the stages looking like a green screen. I don't feel like I'm on the stage. I feel like I'm fighting and the stage is a background.
They were vibrant, detailed, dynamic and most importantly they were not recycled.
How? Pretty sure that was the POINt to make him the most talked about.
But that something that should be as trivial as that is what stands out and automatically makes it more interesting than the past DBZ trailer shows how stale the series is. People are interested because they think it could be a new character which brings the possibility of a new story which is what people really want.
It is just an opinion. Opinions always effect something. My opinion is I like the games. The effect I buy them. My opinion I dislike Strom. So I rented the games.
Yes but it's the majority that I'm talking about. Most people like the Storm games so they sell pretty well likewise people don't like the DBZ games or are just fed up of the same thing and that's why they aren't selling so good anymore.

The interest it obviously there they just need to do something new. This new DBZ game could hopefully be doing that.

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