What if Goku had lost to Kid Buu

[OWmyDragonBallz]

I'm still under the assumption that if Goku had lost the universe would be doomed. If Gohan or Gotenks were really able to take him down easily the moment wouldn't have that high tension atmosphere. Vegeta seemed to think ahead of Goku when he came up with the Genkidama's idea.

I think the only worry was that they could get absorbed. If Gohan or Gotenks got absorbed, then they'd be in a lot more trouble. Otherwise Gohan could solo Kid Boo effortlessly as he stomps Super Boo effortlessly, and Gotenks may or may not win if he dicks around too much.

That's true. Goku did indeed ask if Gohan and Gotenks were coming without a look of worry in his expression. Plus, wouldn't it be out of Goku's character to suggest bringing people that were several times weaker than their opponent? He established back in the Cell arc that nobody should fight Cell other than Gohan alone. But one contradiction that I can not comprehend is that in Battle of Gods, (if you take it as canon) Goku said that his ultimate goal is to become the strongest, or around the lines of that. Yet Toriyama said that Goku's power was at his peak after Boo saga, but before SSJG.
How could he have looked forward to achieving that goal to surpass Gohan, let alone Gotenks if it was impossible with the way he already was?
Also, why was Vegeta in shock after learning that Beerus one hit KO'd SSJ3 Goku if Gohan and Gotenks were already far stronger than Goku at this point?

[Low Tone G]

I'm still under the assumption that if Goku had lost the universe would be doomed. If Gohan or Gotenks were really able to take him down easily the moment wouldn't have that high tension atmosphere. Vegeta seemed to think ahead of Goku when he came up with the Genkidama's idea.

I think the only worry was that they could get absorbed. If Gohan or Gotenks got absorbed, then they'd be in a lot more trouble. Otherwise Gohan could solo Kid Boo effortlessly as he stomps Super Boo effortlessly, and Gotenks may or may not win if he dicks around too much.

That's true. Goku did indeed ask if Gohan and Gotenks were coming without a look of worry in his expression. Plus, wouldn't it be out of Goku's character to suggest bringing people that were several times weaker than their opponent? He established back in the Cell arc that nobody should fight Cell other than Gohan alone. But one contradiction that I can not comprehend is that in Battle of Gods, (if you take it as canon) Goku said that his ultimate goal is to become the strongest, or around the lines of that. Yet Toriyama said that Goku's power was at his peak after Boo saga, but before SSJG.
How could he have looked forward to achieving that goal to surpass Gohan, let alone Gotenks if it was impossible with the way he already was?
Also, why was Vegeta in shock after learning that Beerus one hit KO'd SSJ3 Goku if Gohan and Gotenks were already far stronger than Goku at this point?

Goku believed that he has the chance to surpass everyone, but Toriyama said that he was already at the peak. He possibly surpassed Gotenks in SSJ3, but most likely he didn't manage to do that with Gohan. Or maybe Toriyama has changed his mind and made Goku the strongest right before B.o.G. so eventually Vegeta had some reason to worry about Goku's shameful beatdown.

Goku managed to surpass SSJ2 Gohan during 7 years for the first time. He became at least 5x-8x stronger including his SSJ3 too than SSJ2 Teen Gohan was in Cell games.
He started from a 2.5x times weaker than Gohan and ended up at a very huge difference in his favour between him and his son.
Still, Gohan was able to surpass him with at least the same advantage via Mystic stuff in the Buu saga(I think we can have Gohan at 10x stronger using his Ultimate power). I can think Goku to have a final succesful period(eventually 5 years) to surpass once again his son by a slight margin.

I think of Buu saga like this:

SSJ3 Goku dead body: 1
SSJ Gotenks: 1.2
SSJ2 Gotenks: 2.4
SSJ3 Gotenks: 9.6
Ultimate Gohan: 10

The B.O.G:

SSJ Gotenks: 1.2
SSJ3: Gotenks: 9.6
Ultimate Gohan: 10
SSJ3 Goku: 10.1 or the same strength like Gohan just far more skilled.
Rage SSJ Vegeta: 15

[Blade]

I think of Buu saga like this:

SSJ3 Goku dead body: 1
SSJ Gotenks: 1.2
SSJ2 Gotenks: 2.4
SSJ3 Gotenks: 9.6
Ultimate Gohan: 10

The B.O.G:

SSJ Gotenks: 1.2
SSJ3: Gotenks: 9.6
Ultimate Gohan: 10
SSJ3 Goku: 10.1 or the same strength like Gohan just far more skilled.
Rage SSJ Vegeta: 15

I'm not quite sure if your numerical scalings are particularly linear or properly representative, but I'd say that the basic hierarchy is sound.

I think regular expression is probably the best way to depict strength comparisons in the post-power level Dragonball (not that Toriyama's numerical scalings in his post BOG interviews have helped), but essentially I think the most important thing to consider is that any marker of character strength or in-universe logic to justify it is only as fixed as Toriyama's grip on the pen when he commits it to the plot. The impermanence of the author's ability to remember past events or his inclination (or lack of) to adhere to previously established logic can only lead to endless revisions when trying to keep track of everything as a linear, conflict-free progression - because from a narrative perspective there just isn't one.

[dbzfan7]

That's true. Goku did indeed ask if Gohan and Gotenks were coming without a look of worry in his expression. Plus, wouldn't it be out of Goku's character to suggest bringing people that were several times weaker than their opponent? He established back in the Cell arc that nobody should fight Cell other than Gohan alone. But one contradiction that I can not comprehend is that in Battle of Gods, (if you take it as canon) Goku said that his ultimate goal is to become the strongest, or around the lines of that. Yet Toriyama said that Goku's power was at his peak after Boo saga, but before SSJG.
How could he have looked forward to achieving that goal to surpass Gohan, let alone Gotenks if it was impossible with the way he already was?
Also, why was Vegeta in shock after learning that Beerus one hit KO'd SSJ3 Goku if Gohan and Gotenks were already far stronger than Goku at this point?

I doubt Goku knows what Toriyama says. I also doubt he'd be displeased that his son was stronger than him either. Also two hit KOing SSJ3 Goku is no small feat anyways.

Goku managed to surpass SSJ2 Gohan during 7 years for the first time. He became at least 5x-8x stronger including his SSJ3 too than SSJ2 Teen Gohan was in Cell games.
He started from a 2.5x times weaker than Gohan and ended up at a very huge difference in his favour between him and his son.
Still, Gohan was able to surpass him with at least the same advantage via Mystic stuff in the Buu saga(I think we can have Gohan at 10x stronger using his Ultimate power). I can think Goku to have a final succesful period(eventually 5 years) to surpass once again his son by a slight margin.

Erm Goku in 7 years didn't get a whole lot stronger outside SSJ2/3. Vegeta and Piccolo's quotes suggest that he is stronger than SSJ2 Kid Gohan, but not leagues above or even a multiple, just somewhat stronger.

[Hugo Boss]

I'm still under the assumption that if Goku had lost the universe would be doomed. If Gohan or Gotenks were really able to take him down easily the moment wouldn't have that high tension atmosphere. Vegeta seemed to think ahead of Goku when he came up with the Genkidama's idea.

I think the only worry was that they could get absorbed. If Gohan or Gotenks got absorbed, then they'd be in a lot more trouble. Otherwise Gohan could solo Kid Boo effortlessly as he stomps Super Boo effortlessly, and Gotenks may or may not win if he dicks around too much.

I think that Goku worrying about Gohan or Gotenks could get absorbed seems a bit stupid given that both experienced Boo's absorption technique and probably wouldn't fall for the same trick. Well, at first Goku suggested that a genkidama wasn't exactly a better idea than bringing Gohan or Gotenks to fight Boo, but a super genkidama with every little bit of energy 99% DBverse had to offer.. Well, nothing directly implies the boys wouldn't have a chance to defeat Boo, but when I was watching the scene, dramatically, it was more like Goku was the universe's last hope.

[dbzfan7]

I think that Goku worrying about Gohan or Gotenks could get absorbed seems a bit stupid given that both experienced Boo's absorption technique and probably wouldn't fall for the same trick. Well, at first Goku suggested that a genkidama wasn't exactly a better idea than bringing Gohan or Gotenks to fight Boo, but a super genkidama with every little bit of energy 99% DBverse had to offer.. Well, nothing directly implies the boys wouldn't have a chance to defeat Boo, but when I was watching the scene, dramatically, it was more like Goku was the universe's last hope.

Ya never really know with Boo. Also Goku was the last hope as everyone else was dead at that point when Vegeta said Goku was the only one who could do it.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

That's true. Goku did indeed ask if Gohan and Gotenks were coming without a look of worry in his expression. Plus, wouldn't it be out of Goku's character to suggest bringing people that were several times weaker than their opponent? He established back in the Cell arc that nobody should fight Cell other than Gohan alone. But one contradiction that I can not comprehend is that in Battle of Gods, (if you take it as canon) Goku said that his ultimate goal is to become the strongest, or around the lines of that. Yet Toriyama said that Goku's power was at his peak after Boo saga, but before SSJG.
How could he have looked forward to achieving that goal to surpass Gohan, let alone Gotenks if it was impossible with the way he already was?
Also, why was Vegeta in shock after learning that Beerus one hit KO'd SSJ3 Goku if Gohan and Gotenks were already far stronger than Goku at this point?

I doubt Goku knows what Toriyama says. I also doubt he'd be displeased that his son was stronger than him either. Also two hit KOing SSJ3 Goku is no small feat anyways.

Goku managed to surpass SSJ2 Gohan during 7 years for the first time. He became at least 5x-8x stronger including his SSJ3 too than SSJ2 Teen Gohan was in Cell games.
He started from a 2.5x times weaker than Gohan and ended up at a very huge difference in his favour between him and his son.
Still, Gohan was able to surpass him with at least the same advantage via Mystic stuff in the Buu saga(I think we can have Gohan at 10x stronger using his Ultimate power). I can think Goku to have a final succesful period(eventually 5 years) to surpass once again his son by a slight margin.

Erm Goku in 7 years didn't get a whole lot stronger outside SSJ2/3. Vegeta and Piccolo's quotes suggest that he is stronger than SSJ2 Kid Gohan, but not leagues above or even a multiple, just somewhat stronger.

See, the problem with SSJ3 Goku > SSJ3 Gotenks post Boo saga ; That would mean that SSJ Goku > SSJ Gotenks which would therefore make SSJ Goku stronger than a single SSJ3 from the Boo saga. Now if SSJ Goku > SSJ Gotenks, imagine how powerful SSJ3 Goku would be, lol.

[RandomGuy96]

Gohan would come in, chew Buu up, blow a Buu bubble, pop it, and then disintegrate the pieces with an invisible kiai fired from his eyes (i.e. a glare). He could literally deflect Pure Buu's strongest attack by blowing on it. No, that's an exaggeration. With a power advantage like Gohan's, he could do that. See Recoome vs kid Gohan in the Namek arc.

I'm still under the assumption that if Goku had lost the universe would be doomed. If Gohan or Gotenks were really able to take him down easily the moment wouldn't have that high tension atmosphere. Vegeta seemed to think ahead of Goku when he came up with the Genkidama's idea.

I think the only worry was that they could get absorbed. If Gohan or Gotenks got absorbed, then they'd be in a lot more trouble. Otherwise Gohan could solo Kid Boo effortlessly as he stomps Super Boo effortlessly, and Gotenks may or may not win if he dicks around too much.

That's true. Goku did indeed ask if Gohan and Gotenks were coming without a look of worry in his expression. Plus, wouldn't it be out of Goku's character to suggest bringing people that were several times weaker than their opponent? He established back in the Cell arc that nobody should fight Cell other than Gohan alone. But one contradiction that I can not comprehend is that in Battle of Gods, (if you take it as canon) Goku said that his ultimate goal is to become the strongest, or around the lines of that. Yet Toriyama said that Goku's power was at his peak after Boo saga, but before SSJG.
How could he have looked forward to achieving that goal to surpass Gohan, let alone Gotenks if it was impossible with the way he already was?
Also, why was Vegeta in shock after learning that Beerus one hit KO'd SSJ3 Goku if Gohan and Gotenks were already far stronger than Goku at this point?

SS3 Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan weren't even in that movie. Of course SS3 Goku is stronger than (or at least on par with) SS Gotenks, and stronger than SS-SS2 Gohan using black hair dye.

Also, Goku getting significantly stronger after Buu is impossible. He still considers a Pure Buu level opponent to be a good fight by the EOZ, BOG base Goku is weaker than Freeza, he's about fifty by the EOZ (i.e. not in his prime, hence why Toriyama said EOZ Goku < BOG Goku before SSG), and even Vegeta at the EOZ fears Pure Buu. Goku at the end of the series is not significantly stronger than he was in the Buu arc. Even ignoring all the implied Gotenks bloat, Super Buu was WAY stronger than Goku by his own admission. Gotenks was beating Super Buu (he had a big advantage and would have won if not for SS3's drawbacks) and Gohan was a lot stronger than Gotenks, enough to casually beat down and toy with Super Buu and last a long time against Buutenks. Goku never got anywhere close to their level.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

Gohan's bios for BoG says that he surpasses that of a full-blooded saiyan which by default, would mean Goku in SSJ3. Plus, why would Gohan deliberately attack Beerus in base state since he wasn't ultimate?

[RandomGuy96]

Gohan's bios for BoG says that he surpasses that of a full-blooded saiyan which by default, would mean Goku in SSJ3. Plus, why would Gohan deliberately attack Beerus in base state since he wasn't ultimate?

He was a SS-SS2. That was the way he was originally animated. They changed the colors at the last minute to make him appear Ultimate when a fan pointed out the inconsistency. The story doesn't make if he has his Ultimate form, because Gotenks is confident against Beerus without even using SS3 after seeing Gohan lose. He was originally a regular SS-SS2, and his appearance in the movie has him treated as such.

[dbzfan7]

That's true. Goku did indeed ask if Gohan and Gotenks were coming without a look of worry in his expression. Plus, wouldn't it be out of Goku's character to suggest bringing people that were several times weaker than their opponent? He established back in the Cell arc that nobody should fight Cell other than Gohan alone. But one contradiction that I can not comprehend is that in Battle of Gods, (if you take it as canon) Goku said that his ultimate goal is to become the strongest, or around the lines of that. Yet Toriyama said that Goku's power was at his peak after Boo saga, but before SSJG.
How could he have looked forward to achieving that goal to surpass Gohan, let alone Gotenks if it was impossible with the way he already was?
Also, why was Vegeta in shock after learning that Beerus one hit KO'd SSJ3 Goku if Gohan and Gotenks were already far stronger than Goku at this point?

I doubt Goku knows what Toriyama says. I also doubt he'd be displeased that his son was stronger than him either. Also two hit KOing SSJ3 Goku is no small feat anyways.

Goku managed to surpass SSJ2 Gohan during 7 years for the first time. He became at least 5x-8x stronger including his SSJ3 too than SSJ2 Teen Gohan was in Cell games.
He started from a 2.5x times weaker than Gohan and ended up at a very huge difference in his favour between him and his son.
Still, Gohan was able to surpass him with at least the same advantage via Mystic stuff in the Buu saga(I think we can have Gohan at 10x stronger using his Ultimate power). I can think Goku to have a final succesful period(eventually 5 years) to surpass once again his son by a slight margin.

Erm Goku in 7 years didn't get a whole lot stronger outside SSJ2/3. Vegeta and Piccolo's quotes suggest that he is stronger than SSJ2 Kid Gohan, but not leagues above or even a multiple, just somewhat stronger.

See, the problem with SSJ3 Goku > SSJ3 Gotenks post Boo saga ; That would mean that SSJ Goku > SSJ Gotenks which would therefore make SSJ Goku stronger than a single SSJ3 from the Boo saga. Now if SSJ Goku > SSJ Gotenks, imagine how powerful SSJ3 Goku would be, lol.

The two can be stronger as Herms once noted, just not two shot SSJ3 Goku material I guess. Though depending on your belief of bloat you may not buy this.

He was a SS-SS2. That was the way he was originally animated. They changed the colors at the last minute to make him appear Ultimate when a fan pointed out the inconsistency. The story doesn't make if he has his Ultimate form, because Gotenks is confident against Beerus without even using SS3 after seeing Gohan lose. He was originally a regular SS-SS2, and his appearance in the movie has him treated as such.

Pretty much. I can't see how SSJ Gotenks thought he could beat an opponent who supposedly beat Ultimate Gohan. He'd need SSJ3 for sure. I guess the animators were too lazy to animate all that hair.

[sintzu]

Gohan was weak cause he didn't do any training for 12 years and Watanabe said he was a ssj in the trailers for promotion only.

Gotenks not using ssj3 makes sense cause he doesn't take anything seriously and did the same against Buu.

These 2 plot points are established in the Manga so this is nothing new.

[Hugo Boss]

I think that Goku worrying about Gohan or Gotenks could get absorbed seems a bit stupid given that both experienced Boo's absorption technique and probably wouldn't fall for the same trick. Well, at first Goku suggested that a genkidama wasn't exactly a better idea than bringing Gohan or Gotenks to fight Boo, but a super genkidama with every little bit of energy 99% DBverse had to offer.. Well, nothing directly implies the boys wouldn't have a chance to defeat Boo, but when I was watching the scene, dramatically, it was more like Goku was the universe's last hope.

Ya never really know with Boo. Also Goku was the last hope as everyone else was dead at that point when Vegeta said Goku was the only one who could do it.

I'm referring to the moment when Boo was winning against the genkidama and pushing it back just before Goku had his stamina restored.

[RandomGuy96]

Gohan was weak cause he didn't do any training for 12 years and Watanabe said he was a ssj in the trailers for promotion only.

Gotenks not using ssj3 makes sense cause he doesn't take anything seriously and did the same against Buu.

These 2 plot points are established in the Manga so this is nothing new.

Watanbe was very clearly bullshitting. Gohan can't become weaker, that makes no logical or in-universe sense. Even if he could, that wouldn't justify him getting SO MUCH weaker that he can no longer two-shot Goku.

Incorrect. He overestimates himself, but he has never held back on an enemy he knew to be more powerful. That's not overconfidence, that's suicide. Goten and Trunks both admitted Gohan was stronger than Gotenks, and Gotenks went SS3 immediately in the second round with Super Buu. Ultimate Gohan and SS3 Gotenks weren't in that movie, because if they were, Goku would look shitty and weak prior to and after SSG. It's the same thing in GT; Gohan loses his Ultimate state and has to use Super Saiyan forms again, and Goten and Trunks are always contrived to be apart so they never get to fuse, so they remain weaker than Goku and Vegeta even before SS4.

[Marco Polo]

Watanbe was very clearly bullshitting. Gohan can't become weaker, that makes no logical or in-universe sense.

This.

LOL @ the "promotion" excuse. People who are fans of DB all saw a contradiction when they saw SSJ Gohan and heavily criticized the film's crew for this glaring error; this was not good promotion. People who aren't fans of DB just saw yet another blonde dude (with the same gi as Goku, even), whereas they could have seen a unique and badass black-haired SSJ form; this was not good promotion either. Watanabe was either bullshitting OR he was dumbingly counting on a very dumb promotional idea.

[sintzu]

Watanbe was very clearly bullshitting.

Gohan can't become weaker.

that makes no logical or in-universe sense.

Incorrect. He has never held back on an enemy he knew to be more powerful.

Ultimate Gohan and SS3 Gotenks weren't in that movie.

because if they were,Goku would look shitty and weak prior to and after SSG.

He wasn't unless you can prove otherwise.

It's bad enough you people say he's the second main character now you're saying he can't get weaker ?

In the Buu saga before he got his powers unlocked he was weaker then he was against Cell.

He did in his first fight against Super Buu.

Like it or not Ultimate Gohan was in the movie and to why Gotenks wasn't ssj3 is said in my previous post.

So Goku who was training for 5 years non stop looks shitty and weak compared to 2 brats who don't lift a finger ?

[RandomGuy96]

Watanbe was very clearly bullshitting.

Gohan can't become weaker.

that makes no logical or in-universe sense.

Incorrect. He has never held back on an enemy he knew to be more powerful.

Ultimate Gohan and SS3 Gotenks weren't in that movie.

because if they were,Goku would look shitty and weak prior to and after SSG.

He wasn't unless you can prove otherwise.

It's bad enough you people say he's the second main character now you're saying he can't get weaker ?

In the Buu saga before he got his powers unlocked he was weaker then he was against Cell.

He did in his first fight against Super Buu.

Like it or not Ultimate Gohan was in the movie and to why Gotenks wasn't ssj3 is said in my previous post.

So Goku who was training for 5 years non stop looks shitty and weak compared to 2 brats who don't lift a finger ?

He was unless you can prove otherwise. See, I can do that too. Anyone could see that he was bullshitting. It's very blatant. Marco Polo explains it well. He only chose to blacken Gohan's hair after fans pointed out how stupid the movie was being.

No one gets weaker from not training unless they're old. To assume they'll still somehow lose ki from just not training makes no logical or in universe sense, and is contradicted by official material. Gohan was only "weaker" in the Buu arc because he lacked the anger boost he had when he killed Cell. Fighters don't even get that much weaker in old age. Geezer Piccolo Daimao was only a bit weaker than young Daimao, and he apparently hadn't trained for hundreds of years. Yet you're saying that Gohan would somehow lose the vast majority of his power from not training for five years while in his prime, after getting a potential unlock that draws his dormant potential far beyond its limits. Riiiiiight.

No, he wasn't. I just refuted your post. Your explanation doesn't work with Gotenks' character and what is seen in the movie. Gohan just wasn't Ultimate.

Yep. Because generic "training" doesn't do that much for him. He trained seven years non-stop in the Afterlife, and he didn't get that much stronger. His SS2 form just barely surpassed enraged SS2 Gohan from the Cell Games, and Gohan's base/SS/SS2 states quickly surpassed Goku's from just a day of swinging around the Z-sword, even before Elder Kaioshin worked his magic. Training for a few more years isn't going to close the gap between him and Gotenks and Gohan, who both beat up a guy who Goku was absolutely terrified of and stood zero chance against. Again, Pure Buu is still a big deal to Goku at the EOZ. His gains were very minimal.

[sintzu]

He was unless you can prove otherwise. See, I can do that too.

Sure if you want to be a troll but if not then the burden of proof is on you not me.

[Low Tone G]

Gohan was weak cause he didn't do any training for 12 years and Watanabe said he was a ssj in the trailers for promotion only.

Gotenks not using ssj3 makes sense cause he doesn't take anything seriously and did the same against Buu.

These 2 plot points are established in the Manga so this is nothing new.

Watanbe was very clearly bullshitting. Gohan can't become weaker, that makes no logical or in-universe sense. Even if he could, that wouldn't justify him getting SO MUCH weaker that he can no longer two-shot Goku.

Incorrect. He overestimates himself, but he has never held back on an enemy he knew to be more powerful. That's not overconfidence, that's suicide. Goten and Trunks both admitted Gohan was stronger than Gotenks, and Gotenks went SS3 immediately in the second round with Super Buu. Ultimate Gohan and SS3 Gotenks weren't in that movie, because if they were, Goku would look shitty and weak prior to and after SSG. It's the same thing in GT; Gohan loses his Ultimate state and has to use Super Saiyan forms again, and Goten and Trunks are always contrived to be apart so they never get to fuse, so they remain weaker than Goku and Vegeta even before SS4.

Even if Gohan was only an SSJ/SSJ2 originally, I do think Gotenks couldn't just palying around even if Gohan really was an Ultimate. Goten and Trunks doesn't really train after Buu saga, so they haven't grown any stronger. Gohan also does nothing. Goku and Vegeta continued training harder than even after Buu saga. Goku wanted to surpass his son Gohan, because Gohan didn't want to replace him.

Maybe Goku hasn't surpass any of the half-blooded ones, but Gotenks can be that dumb to try to distract Beerus with his SSJ, but he was defeated as an instant so he didn't have a chance to display his full power. Gohan was also drunken(I don't want to argue that it makes him weaker, but still his reflexed are worse being dizzy.)

But Even if Gohan was Ultimate against Beerus and being knock out so easily isn't anything wrong, after all Super Vegeto still wouldn't have been enough to take on Beerus.

[RandomGuy96]

Sure if you want to be a troll but if not then the burden of proof is on you not me.

No, it's on you. Prove that what he's saying isn't completely bullshit, as all the evidence would indicate.

Even if Gohan was only an SSJ/SSJ2 originally, I do think Gotenks couldn't just palying around even if Gohan really was an Ultimate. Goten and Trunks doesn't really train after Buu saga, so they haven't grown any stronger. Gohan also does nothing. Goku and Vegeta continued training harder than even after Buu saga. Goku wanted to surpass his son Gohan, because Gohan didn't want to replace him.

Not sure what this has to do with anything. Gohan wasn't Ultimate and Gotenks didn't have SS3, so they appeared to be weak. In actuality, they're so strong that Goku never has any hope of ever getting close to them (except if he gets everyone to do the god ritual again).

Maybe Goku hasn't surpass any of the half-blooded ones, but Gotenks can be that dumb to try to distract Beerus with his SSJ, but he was defeated as an instant so he didn't have a chance to display his full power. Gohan was also drunken(I don't want to argue that it makes him weaker, but still his reflexed are worse being dizzy.)

No, he's not that dumb. Goten and Trunks both acknowledged Gohan's superiority, and Gotenks went SS3 immediately in his second fight against Super Buu, now knowing how powerful he is. This isn't even a matter of being dumb. You'd have to assume Gotenks was blind AND an amnesiac AND couldn't sense ki (none of which are true).