EoZ Pan

[Kamiccolo9]

22nd Budokai Tenshinhan level.

Lol Pan would pinky flick even Boo arc Tenshinhan and OHKO him. If 4/5 year old Gohan can beat 22nd Budokai Tenshinhan, why couldn't his 4 year old daughter? Because she's a girl?

Because she hasn't shown anything better.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

22nd Budokai Tenshinhan level.

Lol Pan would pinky flick even Boo arc Tenshinhan and OHKO him. If 4/5 year old Gohan can beat 22nd Budokai Tenshinhan, why couldn't his 4 year old daughter? Because she's a girl?

Because she hasn't shown anything better.

She's shown to train with Goku, while Gohan didn't. Goku also says she'll get far in the Budokai, how far would 22nd Budokai Tenshinhan get in a Tournament with Goten, Trunks, Goku, Vegeta, and Mr. Boo?

[SSJ God Gogeta]

She's shown to train with Goku

When was this?

[Kaboom]

Calling Beerus "Bills" is more like calling Trunks "Tlanks." Yeah, it's technically viable, but it's 100% missing the point of the name. Thankfully, "Bills" is steadily falling more and more out of use, and hopefully soon it'll stop being used altogether.

Anyway, Pan's power... we really don't have much to go by. Her ability to fly all the way around the world as part of her training is impressive, but since we don't know how long it took her to do it or anything, it's hard to even use that to judge her. We don't have any reason to believe she's naturally any better or worse off than Goten and Trunks, and given how she's much younger than they were in the Boo arc and has only just recently started training, she shouldn't be all that astoundingly strong yet.

I personally put her in the tens of thousands, specifically 40,000. Why that number specifically? Because it correlates to her age (4 years old). Other than that it's almost entirely arbitrary.

[godku23]

She's shown to train with Goku, while Gohan didn't. Goku also says she'll get far in the Budokai, how far would 22nd Budokai Tenshinhan get in a Tournament with Goten, Trunks, Goku, Vegeta, and Mr. Boo?

I think Goku meant she could qualify, I have a hard time seeing her getting passed them. Goten and Trunks may have difficulty though.

[Angelus]

What the heck? Pan stomping End of Z Krillin or Tien?

Chiaotzu seems weak, so maybe him. Yamcha is a loser but come on.

Her best feat was stomping Wild Tiger and being able to fly around the world.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

She's shown to train with Goku

When was this?

She's shown flying around the world, wearing a gi, and Goku says she's the most moxie of them all. Pretty much implies she actually trains and doesn't slack off.

[SSJ God Gogeta]

She's shown to train with Goku

When was this?

She's shown flying around the world, wearing a gi, and Goku says she's the most moxie of them all. Pretty much implies she actually trains and doesn't slack off.

But that's just it, we don't see her train with Goku. What kind training do they do? How much training has she done?
These are the questions, all we can do is speculate.

[Angelus]

Plus, with her short arms and legs, it will be a great disadvantage for her.

[ParkerAL]

Making a 4-year-old stronger than galaxy-threatening monstrosities like Cell and Buu, who were the main antagonists for major story arcs, would be unspeakably lame from any standard of believable storytelling.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Making a 4-year-old stronger than galaxy-threatening monstrosities like Cell and Buu, who were the main antagonists for major story arcs, would be unspeakably lame from any standard of believable storytelling.

Kinda like 4/5 year old Gohan could one-shot Demon King Piccolo, or 6 year old Goten could one-shot Freeza, former emperor of the Universe? Plot determines power. Semi-Perfect Cell is lulz to everyone by the end of Z (barring humans), to have Pan thousands of times weaker than the main characters would make no sense. It's obviously illogical for Pan to be that strong, but I won't doubt Goku saying she could make it far in the tournament. Plus, she's the daughter of Ultimate Gohan.

[Kaboom]

The whole "the scale constantly increases" thing can only be relied upon for so much. Gohan (when enraged) was stronger than King Piccolo because he was a Saiyan-Human hybrid while King Piccolo was an incomplete Dragon-type Namekian. That has in-universe logic behind it, and the narrative fact that King Piccolo was once the big bad has little to nothing to do with it.

Li'l Pan is also a Saiyan-Human hybrid like her dad. Based on a few things we can safely assume she's quite a bit stronger than her dad was at that age, and probably assume that she likewise is above other people you'd expect to be inferior to Saiyan-Human hybrids. But there's no logical reason or precedence to just assume she'd already be stronger than the likes of monstrous freaks like Freeza or any form of Cell.

[IDreamtIWasABee]

*shrugs* Cell.

Making a 4-year-old stronger than galaxy-threatening monstrosities like Cell and Buu, who were the main antagonists for major story arcs, would be unspeakably lame from any standard of believable storytelling.

Goten and Trunks set an awful precedent. By the time Pan's as old as they were in the Boo saga, she'll be an SSJ2.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

The whole "the scale constantly increases" thing can only be relied upon for so much. Gohan (when enraged) was stronger than King Piccolo because he was a Saiyan-Human hybrid while King Piccolo was an incomplete Dragon-type Namekian. That has in-universe logic behind it, and the narrative fact that King Piccolo was once the big bad has little to nothing to do with it.

Li'l Pan is also a Saiyan-Human hybrid like her dad. Based on a few things we can safely assume she's quite a bit stronger than her dad was at that age, and probably assume that she likewise is above other people you'd expect to be inferior to Saiyan-Human hybrids. But there's no logical reason or precedence to just assume she'd already be stronger than the likes of monstrous freaks like Freeza or any form of Cell.

5 year old Gohan had a PL of 981, so even non-enraged he could one-shot Piccolo Daimo. The Daiz and Manga pretty much confirm EoZ Goten => Boo arc Goten (post) > Boo arc Goten (pre) ~ C18
Goku said Pan would make it far in the tournament, considering it seems kinda obvious she isn't stronger than Goku or Vegeta themselves, that leaves Goten and Trunks and possibly Mr. Boo for her to get by.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

You guys would be surprised too, Catouttahell has Pan twice as strong as Mr. Boo and able to pretty much one-shot the Boo arc SSJ2s .

[RandomGuy96]

Making a 4-year-old stronger than galaxy-threatening monstrosities like Cell and Buu, who were the main antagonists for major story arcs, would be unspeakably lame from any standard of believable storytelling.

You must hate kid Goku, then. A twelve year old punk who can go toe to toe with the strongest man in the world, while making the world's other great martial artists look like garbage? How lame. I imagine that applied doubly for kid Gohan. I mean, five year old Gohan could easily one-shot 1st form Freeza by the end of the Namek arc, and he was basically an invincible god in that form who pillaged a significant portion of the galaxy unopposed and without having to transform. Even 4 year old Saiyan arc Gohan, in his very first appearance, is able to critically injure a genocidal maniac who ravaged the universe and destroyed entire civilizations, even though neither his dad nor the planet-busting demon who's way stronger than he was when he was way stronger than God could do jack against him.

[SSJ God Gogeta]

You guys would be surprised too, Catouttahell has Pan twice as strong as Mr. Boo and able to pretty much one-shot the Boo arc SSJ2s .

Who?

[Kaboom]

Kid Goku was/is a Saiyan nearing adulthood. A Saiyan becoming more powerful than an incomplete Dragon-type Namekian is not unusual or surprising. A Saiyan-Human hybrid, even a younger child, also being stronger (under certain circumstances) than such a Namekian, or even other Saiyans, also isn't unusual or surprising. At least not to us and in retrospect.

But a Saiyan-Human hybrid child being stronger than abnormally-powerful monsters like Freeza or Cell who are hundreds or thousands or more times stronger than 99.999% of the rest of the universe? That IS unusual. Goten and Trunks don't really set any precedent, either. They're older than Pan, they've presumably been doing serious training for longer than her in addition to their play-fighting, and they also have Super Saiyan. The combination of all those things, along with what they showed against their elders and other opponents, actually give good reason to assume they're as strong or stronger than the bigger DBZ villains.

Pan has no such similar backing. She has her world-round flight, which isn't all that impressive a feat by this point, and a vague word of encouragement from Goku.

I'm not saying it's impossible for Pan to be really strong. Just that "well Character A ended up stronger than Character B, so X can be stronger than Y" is kind of disconnected and circular logic.

[RandomGuy96]

But a Saiyan-Human hybrid child being stronger than abnormally-powerful monsters like Freeza or Cell who are hundreds or thousands or more times stronger than 99.999% of the rest of the universe? That IS unusual

Tell that to Goten, Trunks, and Gohan.

Goten and Trunks don't really set any precedent, either. They're older than Pan, they've presumably been doing serious training for longer than her in addition to their play-fighting, and they also have Super Saiyan. The combination of all those things, along with what they showed against their elders and other opponents, actually give good reason to assume they're as strong or stronger than the bigger DBZ villains.

I don't think Pan is as strong as them. It's when people claim that she's literally thousands of times weaker than them that I disagree. Goten had a base battle power in the tens of millions by age seven.

Kid Goku was/is a Saiyan nearing adulthood. A Saiyan becoming more powerful than an incomplete Dragon-type Namekian is not unusual or surprising. A Saiyan-Human hybrid, even a younger child, also being stronger (under certain circumstances) than such a Namekian, or even other Saiyans, also isn't unusual or surprising. At least not to us and in retrospect.

He wasn't just a Dragon-type Namekian, he was GOD. Not a god, just God. "Dragon-type Namekian" and "Saiyan" are useless in this context anyway, because that happened well before Saiyans or Namekians were a thing.

By this same logic, I could just say "A Saiyan-Human Hybrid becoming more powerful than a Saiyan-Freeza hybrid is not unusual or surprising". Because it's really not.

[Also, Piccolo was a Fighting-type)

[Saiga]

I don't see a good reason to make her massively weaker than Goten/Trunks. She's a bit younger, but I don't think that's going to make for more than a 1,000 x difference.

I'd also like to think the female Saiyans wouldn't be massively weaker than the males they can be most closely compared to just because.