Why is the Canadian/UK Blue Water dub of DBGT so hated?

[Kakacarrottop]

Here's something that is never talked about much on this forum, the Blue Water dub of DBGT that was used for here in Canada and in the UK. It's 100% faithful to the original Japanese version unlike the Funimation version. It had all of the original music, used an English translated version of Dan Dan, and kept the ending completely untouched (Japanese Dan Dan and all) Also, there was almost no censorship at all. Yet, this dub gets completely trashed. I don't get it, I loved it and I was VERY grateful that we got this dub here in Canada.

The voices could be better but all of the acting is still done very well and most of the voices fit no problem. Only Vegeta was in need of a different voice actor but even that wasn't too bad. Overall, the trashing that this dub gets just comes across as being REALLY ungrateful. It's evident that the company behind this dub had a lot of good intentions and it's really well done.

Just because it's accurate to the original Japanese version doesn't mean it's any good. I mean the Big Green dub is probably more faithful than FUNi's original dub yet it's considered one of the worst anime dubs ever since the acting is atrocious. Seriously so many characters in the Blue Water dub just sound so extremely generic, like Vegeta and Piccolo for example. The acting ranges from mediocre to bad. The fact it was done at Ocean's "budget" sister studio means it's kind of like a second-rate Ocean dub, and the later Ocean dub itself was terrible. They probably only used the original Japanese music since they were too lazy to make their own music for the show or couldn't afford to.

[dbboxkaifan]

It is? I've always read great things about it of people who love these dubs and if I had to choose between the two I'd go for the Blue Water of DB/GT than FUNimation's.

[eledoremassis02]

Seems like somthing I might check out (I'm more familiar with their GT dub).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvze3JBeHXs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgvbEJ4oRik

And although the lyrics are different I do like their GT opening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPDP3S4dYcY

I do wish we had a chance to see Scott McNeil as King Piccolo (to say if he were to play him) though, that would have been awesome!

[dbboxkaifan]

Dragon Ball looks interesting! I wish there was a way to get it (legally)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvze3JBeHXs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgvbEJ4oRik

And although the lyrics are different I do like their GT opening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPDP3S4dYcY

I do wish we had a chance to see Scott McNeil as King Piccolo though, that would have been awesome!

They never released either officially on DVD.

[eledoremassis02]

I wish they were (especially GT) I do enjoy that dub and that Dragon....sounds awesome!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY5725FYK98

[Sshadow5001]

The GT that aired on Cartoon Network in the UK was edited in places but at least it had the japanese BGM and a English variation of Dan Dan and an instrumental of Hitori Ja Nai

I quite liked it when it was first airing.

[TheBlackPaladin]

They probably only used the original Japanese music since they were too lazy to make their own music for the show or couldn't afford to.

Well, quite frankly, this is one of the weirder elements of the Blue Water dubs, because as it turns out, it's actually more expensive to use the original music than it is to create a new score. I was surprised to find this out years ago, but apparently there are (relatively expensive) fees attached to the original score (in any anime) that licensing/dubbing studio can forgo if they make their own, new score.

So the Ocean dub used more expensive actors but changed the score, and the Blue Water dub used less expensive actors but kept the original music. One would think that if budget were really a concern, the Blue Water dubs would have been more inclined to create new scores.

[dbboxkaifan]

They probably only used the original Japanese music since they were too lazy to make their own music for the show or couldn't afford to.

You're aware that besides US, UK, Canada and countries who were unfortunate enough to get the English dub versions subtitled the rest got the series and films intact with the original soundtrack how it should always be and that is something that didn't need improvement, instead, FUNimation screwed it up. Thank Piccolo Daimao that FUNimation left Dragon Ball alone with the authentic score. Phew.

FUNimation tried to make GT look and sound cool with those hip-hop tunes, seriously, it didn't fucking need it at all. I'm glad that I never watched a full episode with Menza's score or I'd have turned it off.

And you know, nowadays FUNimation doesn't do this backwards bs any more.

[NitroEX]

I also grew up with this dub but I could never fully bring myself to like it mostly because the majority of the Blue Water actors just weren't as talented as the Ocean ones so it always seemed like a downgrade. I do at the very least prefer the voices of the main cast (Pan, Trunks, Goku & Gill) despite at times, the bad acting.

Zoe Slusar's Goku was great but even her performance suffers at times from being monotone which gets a little grating. The same goes for Pan who, as others have mentioned, as a child actor just made the performance way more genuine as opposed to the Funimation one which you could just tell was an older woman's voice (one of the things I hated about that dub). I also should mention that Uub was very well cast and sounded like an appropriately older version of his Ocean equivalent.

Overall while it isn't a very good dub it introduced me to the Japanese GT score which I'm thankful for as the American one was horrible.

- "Giru" to "Gill"
- Ledgic to "Lezick;"
- "Tsufuru-jin" / "Tuffles" became "Tsufulls;"

These particular name changes were improvements in my opinion. They just roll off the English tongue easier and sound less awkward coming from an American/Canadian accent.

Another thing is that BW's GT looks very ... "washed out." That is to say, it's like the footage they used came from bootleg tapes or something.

I remember reading somewhere that by the end of Ocean Z they were using French video masters instead of Funimation ones (since they had overtaken Funimation's dub by this point). I imagine that's why the footage looked older.

[Kakacarrottop]

I also should mention that Uub was very well cast and sounded like an appropriately older version of his Ocean equivalent.

I thought this Blue Water Uub clip was hilarious. He looks and sounds like he's about to rape someone

[SSJ God Gogeta]

I thought this Blue Water Uub clip was hilarious. He looks and sounds like he's about to rape someone

Can't stop laughing

[Kakacarrottop]

They probably only used the original Japanese music since they were too lazy to make their own music for the show or couldn't afford to.

Well, quite frankly, this is one of the weirder elements of the Blue Water dubs, because as it turns out, it's actually more expensive to use the original music than it is to create a new score. I was surprised to find this out years ago, but apparently there are (relatively expensive) fees attached to the original score (in any anime) that licensing/dubbing studio can forgo if they make their own, new score.

So the Ocean dub used more expensive actors but changed the score, and the Blue Water dub used less expensive actors but kept the original music. One would think that if budget were really a concern, the Blue Water dubs would have been more inclined to create new scores.

I find it hard to believe creating or licensing new music is less expensive than using the original Japanese score, since nearly every non-Japanese dub that isn't from North America used it. I'm sure the people who hold the rights to that music broker some sort of deal for dubbers to make it less expensive to use. I mean it's pretty far fetched to think the people behind the Big Green dub had enough money to license the Japanese score, yet they could only afford like 4 actors for their entire dub.

[dbboxkaifan]

The people behind the Big Green Dub was AB Groupe and as you're aware they were the ones who provided the material of DB/Z/GT throughout Europe, also, apparently it's due to AB Groupe that DBZ games (i.e, Tenkaichi, Raging Blast, Ultimate Blast, Battle of Z) in the west have never had the original score in its entirety.

[Kakacarrottop]

The people behind the Big Green Dub was AB Groupe and as you're aware they were the ones who provided the material of DB/Z/GT throughout Europe, also, apparently it's due to AB Groupe that DBZ games (i.e, Tenkaichi, Raging Blast, Ultimate Blast, Battle of Z) in the west have never had the original score in its entirety.

They are just the company that distributed it like how Saban distributed the first two DBZ seasons without producing much. The actual studio that dubbed it is unknown.

[TheBlackPaladin]

They probably only used the original Japanese music since they were too lazy to make their own music for the show or couldn't afford to.

Well, quite frankly, this is one of the weirder elements of the Blue Water dubs, because as it turns out, it's actually more expensive to use the original music than it is to create a new score. I was surprised to find this out years ago, but apparently there are (relatively expensive) fees attached to the original score (in any anime) that licensing/dubbing studio can forgo if they make their own, new score.

So the Ocean dub used more expensive actors but changed the score, and the Blue Water dub used less expensive actors but kept the original music. One would think that if budget were really a concern, the Blue Water dubs would have been more inclined to create new scores.

I find it hard to believe creating or licensing new music is less expensive than using the original Japanese score, since nearly every non-Japanese dub that isn't from North America used it. I'm sure the people who hold the rights to that music broker some sort of deal for dubbers to make it less expensive to use. I mean it's pretty far fetched to think the people behind the Big Green dub had enough money to license the Japanese score, yet they could only afford like 4 actors for their entire dub.

Yeah, I found it hard to believe too. However, that is the case. A lot of anime music apparently falls under the jurisdiction of something called the JASRAC contract, and the fees are pretty high. No need to take my word for it, though. Feel free to read this very interesting "Ask Me Anything" session from a 4Kids music exec on reddit. The specific quote of interest is this, though:

"And outside of localization for US and age group, a reason we change the music is for the publishing. Buying the original music can lead to a bigger purchase price, versus spending that money on composing it ourselves and also getting money from the publishing after it airs...After the Yugioh 3D movie, the creators in Japan were actually very pleased with the music we produced because we made it feel a little more like our own, a little more big and cinematic 'Hollywood' feeling in a way. But really, it comes down to money."

Gen Fukunaga, CEO of FUNimation, also spoke about this in another interview. Of interest...

"The replacing of the music, was a FUNimation decision. With our own soundtrack, we could charge royalties for every second it's heard."

You are right, though, considering that it appears to be more expensive to use the original music, one does question why the budget was saved in other ways for other dubs. It probably varries on a case-by-case basis. Perhaps the dub producers didn't have the time to compose a new score and settled on the original score, despite its higher price, for reasons of convenience. No one knows, really.

[DrBriefsCat]

You are right, though, considering that it appears to be more expensive to use the original music, one does question why the budget was saved in other ways for other dubs. It probably varries on a case-by-case basis. Perhaps the dub producers didn't have the time to compose a new score and settled on the original score, despite its higher price, for reasons of convenience. No one knows, really.

Some of those foreign dubs may have been funded by a major TV network in the country of the local language. For example, the Latin American dub is owned by Televisa, one of Mexico's biggest broadcasters. Preserving the original score shouldn't be an issue, since a lot of popular American shows also get imported and dubbed too without music changes.

[Kakacarrottop]

They probably only used the original Japanese music since they were too lazy to make their own music for the show or couldn't afford to.

You're aware that besides US, UK, Canada and countries who were unfortunate enough to get the English dub versions subtitled the rest got the series and films intact with the original soundtrack how it should always be and that is something that didn't need improvement, instead, FUNimation screwed it up. Thank Piccolo Daimao that FUNimation left Dragon Ball alone with the authentic score. Phew.

FUNimation tried to make GT look and sound cool with those hip-hop tunes, seriously, it didn't fucking need it at all. I'm glad that I never watched a full episode with Menza's score or I'd have turned it off.

And you know, nowadays FUNimation doesn't do this backwards bs any more.

Have you actually even listened to Menza's score? Sure it has some slight hip hop esque rhythms and the intro was a rap-rock song but other than that it's just as industrial/metal as Faulconer's overhyped work and Nathan Johnson's terrible music. The only real reason people don't like it as much as Faulconer's score is because it doesn't have any catchy character "themes".

[NeoKING]

Seems like somthing I might check out (I'm more familiar with their GT dub).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvze3JBeHXs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgvbEJ4oRik

"You won't defeat me! I still have one good arm left you tool!" - Zoe Slusar's Goku

I love Blue Water.

EDIT: Does anyone recall what they called Super 17's Dengeki Jigoku Dama / Hellish Electro Bomb in the BW dub? From what I remember they either didn't name it anything or they called it "Hades-" something.

[Valerius Dover]

I wasn't aware that this dub was hated by any means, but it's probably seen by most as being an unnecessary and inferior alternative to the Funimation Dub. Funimation has a clear edge being uncut, and having had the same voices since the beginning of DB. On top of that, it features English versions of all 5 of the original theme songs. The Blue Water dub may not be heavily edited, but it still counts. I hear they even cut out title cards. Also, only a shortened English version of the Opening and First Ending. Also, it isn't the same cast since the beginning (and didn't even cover all of Z). The only edge I could think of would be the original score, but even that is beaten out by the score's inclusion as the primary option on the Green Bricks.

The same logic could be applied to the Ocean/Blue Water stuff for DB and DBZ. Again, uncut is a big factor. That being said, it doesn't sound like it's as bad as the average edited dub. It just can't hold a candle to the actual uncut version.

[dbboxkaifan]

Have you actually even listened to Menza's score? Sure it has some slight hip hop esque rhythms and the intro was a rap-rock song but other than that it's just as industrial/metal as Faulconer's overhyped work and Nathan Johnson's terrible music. The only real reason people don't like it as much as Faulconer's score is because it doesn't have any catchy character "themes".

You can't compare the Faulconer score because that was composed by more than one composer (Mike, Bruce, Julius, Morgan) whereas the Menza score was by just Menza himself, and as such, there really wasn't much variety at all, it felt too much alike the other tracks and they're quite repetitive while at it too. It's boring, bland, repetitive, uninteresting and cheesy.

The Menza tunes used for GT just don't fit the series at all and FUNimation should have never hired him for it but rather use the original soundtrack which is far superior.