How can Goku teleport to King Kai if he's a deity?

[Low Tone G]

Goku told King Kai he couldn't tell if Beerus was coming. So not only could he not gauge Beerus power level, he didn't know Beerus was coming if King Kai hadn't told him that.

Yeah. I do not think God Goku's Ki were any different.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Goku told King Kai he couldn't tell if Beerus was coming. So not only could he not gauge Beerus power level, he didn't know Beerus was coming if King Kai hadn't told him that.

I think it worked like the weak ki, which are difficult to sense.

Otherwise, we have a plot-hole.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

What part makes it a plot-hole?

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

What part makes it a plot-hole?

Goku being able to sense the presence of the Kais but not Beerus.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Well, based on what we're shown, Goku can only sense Kaio. He can't sense Kaioshin, Kibito or Beerus. I like the theory from krump about old Kaioshin possibly having detectable Chi because he's merged with a witch.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Well, based on what we're shown, Goku can only sense Kaio. He can't sense Kaioshin, Kibito or Beerus. I like the theory from krump about old Kaioshin possibly having detectable Chi because he's merged with a witch.

Kaio & Dende are shown having their ki sensed in the manga. If only high gods (Kaioshin & Hakaishin) can't have their ki sensed, then God Goku's ki should be able to be sensed by mortals, since the Super Saiyan God is in the same category as the Kami of Earth.

So, it's either that a god's ki can be sensed, but not measured, or we have a plot-hole.

[Kamiccolo9]

Well, based on what we're shown, Goku can only sense Kaio. He can't sense Kaioshin, Kibito or Beerus. I like the theory from krump about old Kaioshin possibly having detectable Chi because he's merged with a witch.

Kaio & Dende are shown having their ki sensed in the manga. If only high gods (Kaioshin & Hakaishin) can't have their ki sensed, then God Goku's ki should be able to be sensed by mortals, since the Super Saiyan God is in the same category as the Kami of Earth.

So, it's either that a god's ki can be sensed, but not measured, or we have a plot-hole.

Kami's ki, however, was never sensed. It's entirely possible that Dende was a special case, in that he was literally brought over to be a god, rather than having the title bestowed on him by the previous god like Kami was.

[Darkron2151]

Kami's ki, however, was never sensed. It's entirely possible that Dende was a special case, in that he was literally brought over to be a god, rather than having the title bestowed on him by the previous god like Kami was.

Then that would also mean that Guru's ki couldn't be sensed either, which we know is wrong because he was not only able to be sensed by the Earthlings and Vegeta, but also picked up on Freeza's scouter no less.

And where was it stated that Kami's ki was never sensed? There's no statements regarding his ki at all, so one can't really say for sure that his energy can or can't be sensed. And this was long before the idea of "Godly ki" was even introduced.

[Kamiccolo9]

Kami's ki, however, was never sensed. It's entirely possible that Dende was a special case, in that he was literally brought over to be a god, rather than having the title bestowed on him by the previous god like Kami was.

Then that would also mean that Guru's ki couldn't be sensed either, which we know is wrong because he was not only able to be sensed by the Earthlings and Vegeta, but also picked up on Freeza's scouter no less.

And where was it stated that Kami's ki was never sensed? There's no statements regarding his ki at all, so one can't really say for sure that his energy can or can't be sensed. And this was long before the idea of "Godly ki" was even introduced.

Who says the Great Elder was a god?

I'm just saying that no one is ever mentioned to have sensed Kami's ki. No need to read any deeper into it than that.

[Darkron2151]

Who says the Great Elder was a god?

I'm just saying that no one is ever mentioned to have sensed Kami's ki. No need to read any deeper into it than that.

The term "god" in Kami's case doesn't really make much sense when shown the hierarchy of gods within the universe. It looks to be more of a "Guardian" position (as the dub coincidentally has it named) as his position isn't really revered at all to other lifeforms in the universe except on Earth an has no "diety" powers. Not to mention anyone (who is pure hearted I guess) could become "Guardian" (well, maybe not anyone). He even offered Goku the opportunity to become it when he defeated Piccolo Jr. Would that mean Goku would've had Godly ki then because Kami would've personally handed over the job to him? It's not like it's a transformation like SSJG, so nothing would change except his title.

[Kamiccolo9]

Who says the Great Elder was a god?

I'm just saying that no one is ever mentioned to have sensed Kami's ki. No need to read any deeper into it than that.

The term "god" in Kami's case doesn't really make much sense when shown the hierarchy of gods within the universe. It looks to be more of a "Guardian" position (as the dub coincidentally has it named) as his position isn't really revered at all to other lifeforms in the universe except on Earth an has no "diety" powers. Not to mention anyone (who is pure hearted I guess) could become "Guardian" (well, maybe not anyone). He even offered Goku the opportunity to become it when he defeated Piccolo Jr. Would that mean Goku would've had Godly ki then because Kami would've personally handed over the job to him? It's not like it's a transformation like SSJG, so nothing would change except his title.

It makes perfect sense, because that's what a Dragon Ball god is. He's literally called "God."

I don't see any point in bringing up the Goku stuff as evidence, since it never happened, and you have no idea what would have occurred had he agreed to it. We have no idea how imparting godhood works, so you can't really use that to refute anything.

[Darkron2151]

It makes perfect sense, because that's what a Dragon Ball god is. He's literally called "God."

I don't see any point in bringing up the Goku stuff as evidence, since it never happened, and you have no idea what would have occurred had he agreed to it. We have no idea how imparting godhood works, so you can't really use that to refute anything.

First of all, I didn't say it to "refute" anything. Why is anything anyone says about a topic part of a "debate" with you or anyone else on this site? Save the attitude for an actual debate or just in general, thank you.

Second, I stated it mostly due to your idea earlier:

It's entirely possible that Dende was a special case, in that he was literally brought over to be a god, rather than having the title bestowed on him by the previous god like Kami was.

As not only is Goku attaining "godhood" via Kami a "possibility" introduced by the manga, but also if it did happen, how would "godly ki" be involved in the matter now that we know of it. As you said, we don't know, but it would be interesting seeing as how Goku had to actually "transform" and become SSJG to attain that energy.

[Kamiccolo9]

It makes perfect sense, because that's what a Dragon Ball god is. He's literally called "God."

I don't see any point in bringing up the Goku stuff as evidence, since it never happened, and you have no idea what would have occurred had he agreed to it. We have no idea how imparting godhood works, so you can't really use that to refute anything.

First of all, I didn't say it to "refute" anything. Why is anything anyone says about a topic part of a "debate" with you or anyone else on this site? Save the attitude for an actual debate or just in general, thank you.

Second, I stated it mostly due to your idea earlier:

It's entirely possible that Dende was a special case, in that he was literally brought over to be a god, rather than having the title bestowed on him by the previous god like Kami was.

As not only is Goku attaining "godhood" via Kami a "possibility" introduced by the manga, but also if it did happen, how would "godly ki" be involved in the matter now that we know of it. As you said, we don't know, but it would be interesting seeing as how Goku had to actually "transform" and become SSJG to attain that energy.

When you offer something in opposition to a proposed idea, you are attempting to refute that idea.
There is no attitude here, unless you are specifically looking for one.

It's a possibility that's mentioned, true. What isn't mentioned is how it occurs, so that can't be used as evidence against any kind of claim. And what says that the SSJG ritual is the only way to obtain god ki? You are applying limitations that don't exist.

[Darkron2151]

When you offer something in opposition to a proposed idea, you are attempting to refute that idea.
There is no attitude here, unless you are specifically looking for one.

It's a possibility that's mentioned, true. What isn't mentioned is how it occurs, so that can't be used as evidence against any kind of claim. And what says that the SSJG ritual is the only way to obtain god ki? You are applying limitations that don't exist.

And what of that statement was "opposition to a proposed idea" in any way? Because if it sounded like it did, it was unintentional. What was, I guess, "refutation" was the Great Elder's ki being able to be sensed, and that was shot down because he wasn't specifically named "god", yet his position on Namek doesn't really seem all that different from Kami's IMO.

And I never said that SSJG or transformation was the only way to obtain godly ki. I said that's the way we see Goku doing it so it would be interesting to see how it would happen in that hypothetical case, with also the idea you mentioned earlier. There could be hundreds of ways to obtain godly ki, but we are only shown one. And from your tidbit, maybe two. I was "applying limitations" to nothing.

[Hitiro]

I just thought that the Kaio have regular Ki and that they have special sensing abilities that are unmatched. I mean he does find Namek with no problems and it seems he can view what is going on anywhere in the universe. Like he does with Goku fighting Freeza on Namek or when he hears Vegeta talking about using the Genki Dama against Boo. So the Kaio are a special case for sensing people with Godly Ki like Beerus and Whis. I am also not sure it is entirely impossible that a regular being like Goku or Vegeta can't sense God Ki without having it themselves. Because what Beerus says to Vegeta is more of an observation rather than an actual fact.

[ShaneisMC]

For whatever it may be worth, if I'm not mistaken one of the guides says that Kaio has a battle power of 3500.

[hyperbeing1]

I always believed that while kaios and kaioshin have a slightly unique energy it do not believe it is out of the realm of a person with skills like goku or gohan to sense them. they may possess a form of godly ki but one that is much closer to the human level.

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

For whatever it may be worth, if I'm not mistaken one of the guides says that Kaio has a battle power of 3500.

Not sure what you're implying here.

If someone has god ki that doesn't mean they don't have a measurable power level. I'm not sure if a scouter could actually read him or what, but that was just to gauge who he's weaker than, or stronger than. I'm sure Nappa can take him, King Kai did state that both Saiyans in the Saiyan Saga are stronger than he is. So Goku had to surpass King Kai in the middle of his training to beat the Saiyans.

I always believed that while kaios and kaioshin have a slightly unique energy it do not believe it is out of the realm of a person with skills like goku or gohan to sense them. they may possess a form of godly ki but one that is much closer to the human level.

So far one of the best theories to counter the plot hole. Akira has a lot of questions to answer, if he'll get to them.

[Tsufuru]

i think they couldnt sense god ki cuz of the power diffrence.

like goku said he didnt know such a realm of power exists maybe god ki can be sensed but at one point its to much to comprehend.

probably thats why bills is much stronger than any1 even stronger than vegetto.

[Hitiro]

i think they couldnt sense god ki cuz of the power diffrence.

like goku said he didnt know such a realm of power exists maybe god ki can be sensed but at one point its to much to comprehend.

probably thats why bills is much stronger than any1 even stronger than vegetto.

Well, if the power difference couldn't be sense then that is fair enough. But isn't the problem that Vegeta couldn't sense Beerus at all a huge problematic factor here? He didn't know where Beerus voice was coming from in the scene. Not understanding the scope of someone's power is one thing but not being able sense where they are is another.