So do some at Funi have regrets with how DBZ was handled?

[ABED]

Schemmel is a huge part in this problem since he never corrected his awful acting.

I'd say out of all the actors in season 3, his was among those that had the least problems.

Honestly, considering what Funimation had to deal with at that time, how DBZ was handled was probably the best that they could have done with the show. Funimation were barely even a company the time that they started dubbing the show back in the late 90s. They were at the time made up of the leftovers from original Ocean Dub and people they recruited locally who had next to no experience in acting or voice of any kind. Hell, it kinds of miracle that Funimation were given to ball to roll with in Dragon Ball Z considering it got cancelled by the time there were getting their shit together to start re-dubbing it. Say what you will about the voice actors but Funimation were given no favors as far as the script went. I remember Sabat recollecting in a interview a few years back about how the scripts they had gotten from Japan were either horribly translated or untranslatable, so they pretty much had to make up shit as they went. Which explains a lot to honest! But really watching Kai and watching the original Funi dub of DBZ, it's safe to say that all of the original actors that still dubbing the show have come a long way and I can't be happier about that.

I'm tired of the blame going to the badly translated scripts from Toei. The dub was bad due to the direction the PTB wanted to go. If it all really came down to bad translations, how could there not have been relatively cheap solutions? The green actors didn't help matters, but neither did the scripts, directors who didn't know the series, nor the overall philosophy the dub had (e.g., sound alikes and terribly childish dialog). Even though FUNi had to use a green cast to stay solvent, nothing was stopping them from not limiting their talent pool to knockoff voices and performances.

[TheBlackPaladin]

It's ridiculous that Sean didn't bother to re-dub anything for Season 3 at least when all of the other main characters did.

Was he given the option? I always figured he'd have done it if he had the chance.

He was living in New York at the time and felt it unnecssary to redub it at the time the 'Remastered' dub was coming out.

Well "felt unnecessary" could also mean like he didn't feel like paying for plane tickets. From what he said at a con, when he moved to New York, FUNimation initially told him that they were going to have to re-cast the role. To avoid this, he started to fly back to Texas on his own money and record his lines in huge batches with super-long recording sessions. He also said that eventually, FUNimation softened up and started contributing towards his airfare, and as of Kai, they're paying for his airfare completely. He did clarify that under most circumstances, dubbing companies never pay an actor's travel fees, and that they only made an exception for him because he happens to play the lead character in their most financially successful property. His devotion to the role--even at the cost of his own money--probably didn't hurt either.

[Attitudefan]

Chris Sabat should have at least gone abit further than the Garlic Jr saga in terms of re-dubbing. The voice acting for Vegeta in the Android Arc is still pretty bad.

I jumped out of my seat when I heard him in the Android arc when re-watching the entire series dubbed back in '07. I felt he sounded so different from the Garlic Jr arc compared to his original interpretation. Not only that, his acting is baaaad.

I'd say out of all the actors in season 3, his was among those that had the least problems.

True, but the problem is that you have all the characters (epsecially the main characters whom Goku interacts with) all redubbed with quality acting, and then you have Season 3 Schemmel... it is really noticeable on the marathon mode. Oh boy, you go from Goku sounding fantastic, to... that. Again, I noticed it along with my sister. It just was bad.

When listening to all the '99 cast together, Schemmel sounds fine, but with the better performers alongside '99 Schemmel, it's quite noticeable.

All the characters should have been re-dubbed through to the Buu arc at least. Especially Piccolo, Goku, Vegeta, Yamcha, Tenshinhan, God, King Kai, Nail, Freeza, King Cold, Krillin, and the Androids excluding Cell. Those all needed a better performance.

[GS7X7]

Sean's not a rich man, he's well-off by VA standards but he is a working Joe. I can understand his plight with plane tickets, he's not one of the ones that became a multi-millionaire with Funimation. If he won the lottery and could retire he probably wouldn't mind va'ng Goku for free. Goku's not a minor character so they should have paid the airfare to begin with.

Actually, I remember hearing that in old PN convos (he used to those a lot) that he griped once about the long drive to Funimation each day.... something like a few hours a day? I really don't remember or this for certain though, this is just something I heard nearly a decade ago so I can't say for sure.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Or actual improvement.

Funi's dub was an improvement over the original?

No, I meant in future dubs of DBZ and other anime.

Had another company who DID NOT listen to criticism we would have never had the MUCH IMPROVED (Not perfect, but close enough) dubs of DBZKai, One Piece and others. Can you imagine what would have happened if Toei went with 4Kids(I know its a tired and shitty meme but hear me out)? Not ONLY we would have never gotten ANY decent version of DBZ dubbed, not even Kai or BoG. We wouldnt have gotten the TONS AND TONS of other well done anime by Funimation. 4kids hated the fans and defied them to the very fucking end. I know some employees were nice, and actually gave a shit, but they were not in the majority and they MOST CERTAINLY didnt call the shots.

Also OMG IT REALLY IS Great Saiyaman! I loved your articles on YGO Uncensored/DBZU2! They fucking rocked! I do feel you could have used a less Caustic tone but they were still pretty rad!

Also how do you feel that all of your interviews are hard to read now that we know better (Spongebob going to shit, The Mexican Fandom getting 4kids One Piece, Toei's animators being shit, etc?)

[GS7X7]

Or actual improvement.

Funi's dub was an improvement over the original?

No, I meant in future dubs of DBZ and other anime.

Had another company who DID NOT listen to criticism we would have never had the MUCH IMPROVED (Not perfect, but close enough) dubs of DBZKai, One Piece and others. Can you imagine what would have happened if Toei went with 4Kids(I know its a tired and shitty meme but hear me out)? Not ONLY we would have never gotten ANY decent version of DBZ dubbed, not even Kai or BoG. We wouldnt have gotten the TONS AND TONS of other well done anime by Funimation. 4kids hated the fans and defied them to the very fucking end. I know some employees were nice, and actually gave a shit, but they were not in the majority and they MOST CERTAINLY didnt call the shots.

Also OMG IT REALLY IS Great Saiyaman! I loved your articles on YGO Uncensored/DBZU2! They fucking rocked! I do feel you could have used a less Caustic tone but they were still pretty rad!

Also how do you feel that all of your interviews are hard to read now that we know better (Spongebob going to shit, The Mexican Fandom getting 4kids One Piece, Toei's animators being shit, etc?)

Glad you liked them!

Oh, I don't mind. I definitely feel some still hold up

http://www.animecauldron.com/dbzuncenso ... music.html

while some seem a bit dated given recent events, like Funi and 4Kids doing two completely different versions of OP.

http://www.animecauldron.com/dbzuncenso ... rview.html


Nobody's really omniscient and can predict everything, the views people express often express the sentiments of the time periods they were from. If most people read articles from the 80's about "the glorious Afghani rebels fighting for freedom from Russia and needing American arms" most people will think, "sheesh, don't give em nothing and then the Russians can kill Osama and the rest of the Taliban." At the the time, fighting "the Evil Empire" took precedence over everything but, of course, of Afghanistan had become a Russian colony it would have stopped 9/11 and saved America tens of thousands of deaths/casualties/PTSDs and trillions in defense spent.


I don't really know anything about controversy with Toei's animators being bad or anything but I know OP still looks great.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I FUCKING LOVE YOU!

I know One Piece doesnt exactly showoff Sakuga (Anime Fan terminology for secuences of outstanding animation, think Animation Bump) scenes every 5 seconds, but I like it just fine. If you listened to Arlong Park you'd think Toei just gave up on Animating and just Clutch Cargo the whole thing. Sure it doesnt measure up all that well against other anime, but I was never into One Piece for the GR8 Animation.

Also they seem to think Toei rapes the manga,I seriously dont understand the complaints, I bought the manga and I really cant see what they are talking about. Even Scanlations dont convince me Toei is EVUL.

Also, I'm sorry if I came across as saying "LOLOLOL ur artikles suck now that things turned out to be completely different from what you expected!". I love your articles, even those that havent aged all that well due to unfortunate future developments.

[GS7X7]

Oh no worries, glad you like my work.


I think OP the anime is great, it's a lot more exciting than the manga. The only thing that sucks is when you catch up then you have to wait a week for a fraction of they story to advance. It's funny to see people say that about eps 400-500 arcs are horrible in the anime whereas I find it one of the best story arcs in all of animedom with a really great message about dealing with an issue that effects everyone.

It only sucks if you have to be fed the arc 1 ep a week- watching it all at once with no limits is freakishly amazing.

Fans can scream, rant and holler all they want but, there's only a limited amount of manga to work with. The trick to OP anime is to take a break for 1-2 years for a new arc to finish instead of watching a new ep each week. I've given up on waiting eagerly for one new ep/chapter a week, it's more fun and less stressful to watch something that's complete or at least has a good stopping point at an arc somewhere. Besides that, American fans have limited influence with creators- the creators are too busy at the J. boards and most don't know English, so fussing by American fans doesn't change anything.

I kinda wish OP would do more filler arcs (Fishtown would have been a great place if Toei hadn't been in a rush to catch up to where the last movie was going to take place) but that's really my one big gripe with it.

[successoroffate]

Here's my take on how Funimation handled DB in the US.

I personally believe they overused their power to add lines to the script ( and even remove). The finished product became an "Americanized" version of Dragon Ball which although successful, still represents a huge departure from the original. Taking this into consideration, the OST changes also suffered dramatically. Even if Bruce Faulconer gained recognition and fans because of his job in the series, the japanese OST is in a whole different level.

My biggest issues with the english dub. In DBZ for example, Gohan turning SSJ 2 for the first time, once Cell crushes A16's head, Gohan is seeing and the bird animation prior to the transformation begins (at the sound of Tamashii tai Tamashii By Hironobu Kageyama). In the Japanese version, Gohan does not talk at all...he just screams. The American Version on the other hand, Gohan is talking, a lot.

Corny jokes: Dragon Ball even in the original version, is known to have comedy bits throughout the series. The jokes in the American version are so, cringeworthy, I do not even want to mention them here, just look for them.

Finally. Script changes and dialogues. Dragon Ball GT as an example. In the original Japanese version, although in a subtle manner, it is implied that Goku died during the battle with Omega. During one scene in the finale episode, When Goku is having one last fight with Kuririn, Muten Roshi seems to realize or wonder about Goku's fate by asking: " Goku, are you...?" The American version went on and decided to turn things a little bit, and when I say a little bit, I mean A lot: Muten Roshi says in the same scene "These boys never change." Why would someone decide to turn the table so badly and even change the direction of the series just by making wrong (in my opinion) judgment calls?

What would I have done in their place? Japanese OST, English Dub with no script changes, not at all.

[ABED]

Finally. Script changes and dialogues. Dragon Ball GT as an example. In the original Japanese version, although in a subtle manner, it is implied that Goku died during the battle with Omega. During one scene in the finale episode, When Goku is having one last fight with Kuririn, Muten Roshi seems to realize or wonder about Goku's fate by asking: " Goku, are you...?" The American version went on decided to turn things a little bit, and when I say a little bit, I mean A lot: Muten Roshi says in the same scene "These boys never change."

GT's dub wasn't all that bad. The dub improved and got more accurate over time. The moment with Kuririn wasn't even that bad of a change.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Here's my take on how Funimation handle DB in the US.

I personally believe they overused their power to add lines to the script ( and even remove). The finished product became an "Americanized" version of Dragon Ball which although successful, still represents a huge departure from the original. Taking this into consideration, the OST changes also suffered dramatically. Even if Bruce Faulconer gain recognition and fans because of his job in the series, the japanese OST is in a whole different level.

My biggest issues with the english dub. In DBZ for example, Gohan turning SSJ 2 for the first time, once Cell crushes A16's head, Gohan is seeing and the bird animation prior to the transformation begins (at the sound of Tamashii tai Tamashii By Hironobu Kageyama). In the Jap version, Gohan does not talk at all...he just screams. The American Version on the other hand, Gohan is talking, a lot.

Corny jokes: Dragon Ball even in the original version, is known to have comedy bits throughout series. The jokes in the American version are so, cringeworthy, I do not even want to mention them here, just look for them.

Finally. Script changes and dialogues. Dragon Ball GT as an example. In the original Japanese version, although in a subtle manner, it is implied that Goku died during the battle with Omega. During one scene in the finale episode, When Goku is having one last fight with Kuririn, Muten Roshi seems to realize or wonder about Goku's fate by asking: " Goku, are you...?" The American version went on decided to turn things a little bit, and when I say a little bit, I mean A lot: Muten Roshi says in the same scene "These boys never change." Why would someone decide to turn the table so badly and even change the direction of the series just by making wrong (in my opinion) judgment calls?

What would I have done in their place? Japanese OST, English Dub with no script changes, not at all.

This post is FREAKING AWESOME! Seriously! I saw your postcount and braced myself for the worst but this is quite great!

My posts are still shitty 400 posts and 2.5 years later...

[successoroffate]

Here's my take on how Funimation handle DB in the US.

I personally believe they overused their power to add lines to the script ( and even remove). The finished product became an "Americanized" version of Dragon Ball which although successful, still represents a huge departure from the original. Taking this into consideration, the OST changes also suffered dramatically. Even if Bruce Faulconer gain recognition and fans because of his job in the series, the japanese OST is in a whole different level.

My biggest issues with the english dub. In DBZ for example, Gohan turning SSJ 2 for the first time, once Cell crushes A16's head, Gohan is seeing and the bird animation prior to the transformation begins (at the sound of Tamashii tai Tamashii By Hironobu Kageyama). In the Jap version, Gohan does not talk at all...he just screams. The American Version on the other hand, Gohan is talking, a lot.

Corny jokes: Dragon Ball even in the original version, is known to have comedy bits throughout series. The jokes in the American version are so, cringeworthy, I do not even want to mention them here, just look for them.

Finally. Script changes and dialogues. Dragon Ball GT as an example. In the original Japanese version, although in a subtle manner, it is implied that Goku died during the battle with Omega. During one scene in the finale episode, When Goku is having one last fight with Kuririn, Muten Roshi seems to realize or wonder about Goku's fate by asking: " Goku, are you...?" The American version went on decided to turn things a little bit, and when I say a little bit, I mean A lot: Muten Roshi says in the same scene "These boys never change." Why would someone decide to turn the table so badly and even change the direction of the series just by making wrong (in my opinion) judgment calls?

What would I have done in their place? Japanese OST, English Dub with no script changes, not at all.

This post is FREAKING AWESOME! Seriously! I saw your postcount and braced myself for the worst but this is quite great!

My posts are still shitty 400 posts and 2.5 years later...

Thank you!? I guess

[Mewzard]

To be fair, Toriyama's name puns are also pretty cringeworthy at times. An entire warrior race named after Vegetables is kinda silly, as is a scientist's family named after underwear.

That said, I do appreciate that the people at Funimation wanting to better themselves, and Kai's dub was what I wanted out of Z's dub once I knew better.

[Ajay]

Thank you!? I guess

Welcome to the forum. Nice first post!

Though just a thing to note, JPN is the better way to shorten Japanese as 'Jap' is a slur.

Anyway, nice breakdown of FUNi's faults.

[Cure Dragon 255]

While I do agree, (Some people in TV Tropes complained about ridiculous food names being changed on Chrono Trigger. Chrono Trigger isnt the place for Toriyama humor.)I think that whether we like it or not Dragon Ball is his baby and its his vision for better or worse.

Hey!

I just thought of one possible name that is imposible to un-romanize without losing the joke.

Recoome.

Its supposed to be an anagram of Kurimu(Cream). No matter how you try, it loses all resemblance to the word cream when translated.

[Theophrastus]

I FUCKING LOVE YOU!

I know One Piece doesnt exactly showoff Sakuga (Anime Fan terminology for secuences of outstanding animation, think Animation Bump) scenes every 5 seconds, but I like it just fine. If you listened to Arlong Park you'd think Toei just gave up on Animating and just Clutch Cargo the whole thing. Sure it doesnt measure up all that well against other anime, but I was never into One Piece for the GR8 Animation.

Also they seem to think Toei rapes the manga,I seriously dont understand the complaints, I bought the manga and I really cant see what they are talking about. Even Scanlations dont convince me Toei is EVUL.

The issue most people have with One Piece anime is that, on average, they adapt exactly one chapter (or less, in some rare cases) per episode. Now, One Piece certainly handles that better than Dragon Ball (due to OP chapters having an average of 17-18 pages compared to 13-14 for DB, and OP just generally having a lot more talking and "stuff" going on in the background that Toei can animate to fill time), but for a lot of people it comes down to "why should I spend 24 minutes watching one chapter's worth of content be animated when I could just read the actual chapter in 5-10 minutes instead?"

...And there's still the occasional bit of really bad filler like (Fishman Island spoilers:)

Spoiler:

Hordy Jones magically getting up after getting hit with Red Hawk (which ended the fight in the manga), continuing to fight and even injure Luffy slightly afterward, and Luffy having to use Red Hawk a second time to finally put him down in the anime version. They took a brand-new finishing move and made it look pathetic when it was supposed to be impressive.

[JulieYBM]

What does FUNimation have to regret? They kept the lights on for their families and continue to do so today. It just so happens to be at the cost of artistic integrity, which is obviously not necessary to work in commercial business. Let's not pretend FUNimation is alone in this. It is the consumer that continues to tell the entertainment industry is needs works of art to bend backwards for them, to shed themselves of sensibilities that offend them.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I FUCKING LOVE YOU!

I know One Piece doesnt exactly showoff Sakuga (Anime Fan terminology for secuences of outstanding animation, think Animation Bump) scenes every 5 seconds, but I like it just fine. If you listened to Arlong Park you'd think Toei just gave up on Animating and just Clutch Cargo the whole thing. Sure it doesnt measure up all that well against other anime, but I was never into One Piece for the GR8 Animation.

Also they seem to think Toei rapes the manga,I seriously dont understand the complaints, I bought the manga and I really cant see what they are talking about. Even Scanlations dont convince me Toei is EVUL.

The issue most people have with One Piece anime is that, on average, they adapt exactly one chapter (or less, in some rare cases) per episode. Now, One Piece certainly handles that better than Dragon Ball (due to OP chapters having an average of 17-18 pages compared to 13-14 for DB, and OP just generally having a lot more talking and "stuff" going on in the background that Toei can animate to fill time), but for a lot of people it comes down to "why should I spend 24 minutes watching one chapter's worth of content be animated when I could just read the actual chapter in 5-10 minutes instead?"

...And there's still the occasional bit of really bad filler like (Fishman Island spoilers:)

Spoiler:

Hordy Jones magically getting up after getting hit with Red Hawk (which ended the fight in the manga), continuing to fight and even injure Luffy slightly afterward, and Luffy having to use Red Hawk a second time to finally put him down in the anime version. They took a brand-new finishing move and made it look pathetic when it was supposed to be impressive.

Those are pretty damn valid complaints. If more people just said THAT instead of generic whining, Arlong Park could be taken as a less elitist and whiny forum.

[GS7X7]

I FUCKING LOVE YOU!

I know One Piece doesnt exactly showoff Sakuga (Anime Fan terminology for secuences of outstanding animation, think Animation Bump) scenes every 5 seconds, but I like it just fine. If you listened to Arlong Park you'd think Toei just gave up on Animating and just Clutch Cargo the whole thing. Sure it doesnt measure up all that well against other anime, but I was never into One Piece for the GR8 Animation.

Also they seem to think Toei rapes the manga,I seriously dont understand the complaints, I bought the manga and I really cant see what they are talking about. Even Scanlations dont convince me Toei is EVUL.

The issue most people have with One Piece anime is that, on average, they adapt exactly one chapter (or less, in some rare cases) per episode. Now, One Piece certainly handles that better than Dragon Ball (due to OP chapters having an average of 17-18 pages compared to 13-14 for DB, and OP just generally having a lot more talking and "stuff" going on in the background that Toei can animate to fill time), but for a lot of people it comes down to "why should I spend 24 minutes watching one chapter's worth of content be animated when I could just read the actual chapter in 5-10 minutes instead?"

...And there's still the occasional bit of really bad filler like (Fishman Island spoilers:)

Spoiler:

Hordy Jones magically getting up after getting hit with Red Hawk (which ended the fight in the manga), continuing to fight and even injure Luffy slightly afterward, and Luffy having to use Red Hawk a second time to finally put him down in the anime version. They took a brand-new finishing move and made it look pathetic when it was supposed to be impressive.

I never noticed that. Watching the anime I just saw a really badass and impressive fight, not "worst episode EVER." The manga wasn't written by God, it's okay if they do things differently to make certain things into even bigger obstacles to overcome. That's why I kinda avoid the elitist manga forums where they go over every last inch of animation for differences from the manga and react to them like the Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons.

[successoroffate]

Thank you!? I guess

Welcome to the forum. Nice first post!

Though just a thing to note, JPN is the better way to shorten Japanese as 'Jap' is a slur.

Anyway, nice breakdown of FUNi's faults.

It's done!