How am I supposed to I support the official release?

[theoriginalbilis]

If you really don't want to support FUNimation's practices on DBZ, but still want to own the series... I'd say buy the DVDs or Blu-Rays used/secondhand.

They don't see any of that money after the original purchase, only the party selling it. And you're getting a legal product.

[TheBlackPaladin]

, I honestly couldn't notice them. Nor did Anime News Network, who said in their review of the Dragon Boxes that they were nothing special and that if people already had the orange bricks, those were good enough.

Are you sure Anime News Network published that?

They didn't say that word-for-word, no, but that's basically what they said in their review of the second Dragon Box. To quote the important part:

However, marketed as the Dragon Boxes are to hard-core fans—for whom all of this is old news—the more pertinent question might be: is it worth buying again? This is by far the nicest, if not most economical package the series has seen: hard-bound yet space-conscious, completely uncut, nicely mastered and featuring the series' two best audio tracks (original Japanese language and English language with the strangely old-fashioned original score). It's aesthetically pleasing and even has its pretty hard-bound booklet cleverly incorporated into the overall package. But it's still the franchise's umpteenth repackaging, and really it offers nothing content-wise that fans haven't already gotten from the uncut season box sets. It's the same show, with the same drawbacks, the same advantages, and the same brazenly unfaithful dub.

So I suppose I should clarify, they didn't say that it wasn't nice in its own way, they just said that it's nothing particularly new or special enough to be worth buying again. As noted previously, they focus more on content than video/audio details in their reviews. And really, that's the view of most people...most people don't put nearly as much thought into video and audio details as we do, they just want to watch "that nostalgic TV show" that they enjoyed as a kid.

As for their comment on Schemmel's performance...granted, this thread is about official releases, not so much performances, but it may perhaps be worth noting that a review of the (now cancelled) "Level" sets basically said the exact opposite:

More relevant to one's experience are the set's audio options. It has three different options: the original Japanese; Funimation's U.S. English broadcast version, complete with different soundtrack; and English with the original Japanese music. Each one provides its own distinct experience. The Japanese is lighter, more humorous and more subdued (relatively speaking, that is). The English broadcast version is hammier and more serious, thanks to some bombastic acting and a darker score. The hybrid track falls somewhere in the middle, retaining the edgier dialogue and broader acting of the English, but lightening the overall tone by sticking to the original music. For my money, it's the best of the three. The dub is great fun most of the time: unfaithful, unpredictable, and delightfully over-the-top. No one, not even the original cast, can shout power-ups like the English DBZ cast. It also has Sean Schemmel's Goku, who clearly outclasses Masako Nozawa's. Retaining the original music pulls the tone a little closer to that of the original, allowing Gohan's episodes in particular to retain a bit of the lighthearted sense of adventure that made Dragon Ball, DBZ's precursor series, such fun.

It may also be worth noting that, unless I'm mistaken, Michael Fitz-Gibbon, who reviewed the first Dragon Box, is the name that appears on Twitter as belonging to Penguintruth. To be clear, there's nothing wrong with his review, nor his opinion, but I don't know that I'd necessarily call it the mainstream one, based on his posts.

[Gaffer Tape]

People are not as stupid as you believe. I think everyone can tell the difference between Bruce Faulconer's score vs Shunsuke Kikuchi's farts. In more detail, Faulconer's score had plenty of techno/electronic/guitar sounds in it. It is way too different for anyone to be able to not notice the difference. The only person who probably would not be able to tell is my dad, as we watched the first episode of Better Call Saul last weekened and the A/V got out of sync by 7-10 seconds and he never noticed for the 20 remaining minutes of the show.

But people in their 20s who grew up watching DBZ every day after school? Yeah, we can notice. The people who don't care for it anymore would be able to tell that the background music is different.

From my experience, I wouldn't necessarily agree. Don't get me wrong. There are many detail-oriented people like us who do notice the difference. I know Kendamu, for example, had told tales of many of his friends who own the orange bricks who simply pop them in on their default settings and never realize they're listening to the Japanese music. My roommate owns all nine season sets and has told me that he preferred the dub from when he watched it as a kid... and yet when I've seen him watching the show, it's on the default setting, and he's completely oblivious to the fact that the music is different. At my job, Kai plays (or played) on TV on Saturday mornings, and a lot of my co-workers, who grew up watching the dub, would pop in to watch it, and not a single one seemed to notice the music was different from what they watched as kids.

To the people who loved Faulconer's music, I'm sure they noticed. To the people like me, who hated Faulconer's music, we'd notice. But to those who really didn't pay that much attention to the score in the first place and hadn't watched the show in several years, a lot of them didn't notice.

[Cure Dragon 255]

, I honestly couldn't notice them. Nor did Anime News Network, who said in their review of the Dragon Boxes that they were nothing special and that if people already had the orange bricks, those were good enough.

Are you sure Anime News Network published that?

They didn't say that word-for-word, no, but that's basically what they said in their review of the second Dragon Box. To quote the important part:

However, marketed as the Dragon Boxes are to hard-core fans—for whom all of this is old news—the more pertinent question might be: is it worth buying again? This is by far the nicest, if not most economical package the series has seen: hard-bound yet space-conscious, completely uncut, nicely mastered and featuring the series' two best audio tracks (original Japanese language and English language with the strangely old-fashioned original score). It's aesthetically pleasing and even has its pretty hard-bound booklet cleverly incorporated into the overall package. But it's still the franchise's umpteenth repackaging, and really it offers nothing content-wise that fans haven't already gotten from the uncut season box sets. It's the same show, with the same drawbacks, the same advantages, and the same brazenly unfaithful dub.

So I suppose I should clarify, they didn't say that it wasn't nice in its own way, they just said that it's nothing particularly new or special enough to be worth buying again. As noted previously, they focus more on content than video/audio details in their reviews. And really, that's the view of most people...most people don't put nearly as much thought into video and audio details as we do, they just want to watch "that nostalgic TV show" that they enjoyed as a kid.

As for their comment on Schemmel's performance...granted, this thread is about official releases, not so much performances, but it may perhaps be worth noting that a review of the (now cancelled) "Level" sets basically said the exact opposite:

More relevant to one's experience are the set's audio options. It has three different options: the original Japanese; Funimation's U.S. English broadcast version, complete with different soundtrack; and English with the original Japanese music. Each one provides its own distinct experience. The Japanese is lighter, more humorous and more subdued (relatively speaking, that is). The English broadcast version is hammier and more serious, thanks to some bombastic acting and a darker score. The hybrid track falls somewhere in the middle, retaining the edgier dialogue and broader acting of the English, but lightening the overall tone by sticking to the original music. For my money, it's the best of the three. The dub is great fun most of the time: unfaithful, unpredictable, and delightfully over-the-top. No one, not even the original cast, can shout power-ups like the English DBZ cast. It also has Sean Schemmel's Goku, who clearly outclasses Masako Nozawa's. Retaining the original music pulls the tone a little closer to that of the original, allowing Gohan's episodes in particular to retain a bit of the lighthearted sense of adventure that made Dragon Ball, DBZ's precursor series, such fun.

It may also be worth noting that, unless I'm mistaken, Michael Fitz-Gibbon, who reviewed the first Dragon Box, is the name that appears on Twitter as belonging to Penguintruth. To be clear, there's nothing wrong with his review, nor his opinion, but I don't know that I'd necessarily call it the mainstream one, based on his posts.

I seriously wanted to go on a penguintruth esque hate tirade. The English DBZ MORE SERIOUS? I dont resent those that like the English dub better, I even like Exor's explanation that Freeza's inapropiate jokes make him seem heartless and sociopathic. But the DBZ dub had LOTS of added "Humor and Jokes" even in extremely serious scenes, without the justification that Exor provided for Freeza. He seems to confuse "Willingness to be lighthearted" with "More Humorous". And yes, the cute dinosaur scenes that were excluded from the Funimation dub were cute and humoruous, but they meant to highlight Gohan's innocence. To make the dinosaurs death way more brutal and chilling. DBZ wasnt a babies, show. And while the English dub did kind of pull it off, they removed Gohan's innocence and charm. In the english dub, he's just a really "Tough " emotionless kid.... that still gets scared in that infamous Gohan cowers instead of attacking Nappa. So people really hate on the poor kid. Americans REALLY seem to have a problem with kids being childlike and innocent. So for a more superficial viewer DBZ's english dub is more serious and the Japanese more silly and lighthearted. Instead of, you know, Japanese DBZ being less afraid of actually allowing itself to show a more innocent and childlike side to itself while also being quite serious and even grim, and the English DBZ being too childishly focused on being "HARCOAR FUCK YEAH!" all while still featuring corny jokes that go against that very seriousness it claims to have.

[Valerius Dover]

I seriously wanted to go on a penguintruth esque hate tirade. The English DBZ MORE SERIOUS? I dont resent those that like the English dub better, I even like Exor's explanation that Freeza's inapropiate jokes make him seem heartless and sociopathic. But the DBZ dub had LOTS of added "Humor and Jokes" even in extremely serious scenes, without the justification that Exor provided for Freeza. He seems to confuse "Willingness to be lighthearted" with "More Humorous". And yes, the cute dinosaur scenes that were excluded from the Funimation dub were cute and humoruous, but they meant to highlight Gohan's innocence. To make the dinosaurs death way more brutal and chilling. DBZ wasnt a babies, show. And while the English dub did kind of pull it off, they removed Gohan's innocence and charm. In the english dub, he's just a really "Tough " emotionless kid.... that still gets scared in that infamous Gohan cowers instead of attacking Nappa. So people really hate on the poor kid. Americans REALLY seem to have a problem with kids being childlike and innocent. So for a more superficial viewer DBZ's english dub is more serious and the Japanese more silly and lighthearted. Instead of, you know, Japanese DBZ being less afraid of actually allowing itself to show a more innocent and childlike side to itself while also being quite serious and even grim, and the English DBZ being too childishly focused on being "HARCOAR FUCK YEAH!" all while still featuring corny jokes that go against that very seriousness it claims to have.

Wait, what? These scenes that you speak of ARE there. He's not tough or emotionless in the dub at all. If anything, he spends a great amount of that long training period for the Saiyans having nature be ruthless towards him.

Anyway, regarding the topic, the current releases aren't really ideal, but they're better than most throughout the world at least. At least we have everything uncut. ^_^

[Cure Dragon 255]

Oops! I knew I forgot something! The Bricks and Blu Ray have a newer dub than the Toonami Original Broadcast. The Ocean Funimation run did remove all the cute scenes with the dinosaur AND the Robot Episode. Then I really dont get why he feels the way he does. He didnt even praise the dub music, he said something that's just not true. I'm starting to get why people dont like Anime News Network.

[funrush]

The manga's fine. There's 3 different (and pretty alright) ways to purchase it and maybe it's just me, but not seeing little Goku's penis doesn't really bother me all that much. The anime's weird because the Level sets were fucking beautiful but those aren't around anymore, and the Dragon Boxes are 10 billion dollars (I know $2 or $3 an episode is better than it used to be but I'm not gonna spend $100+ on not even two season's worth of a TV show.) The season Blurays are tolerable I guess so you gotta go with those if any.

[Duo]

The manga's fine. There's 3 different (and pretty alright) ways to purchase it and maybe it's just me, but not seeing little Goku's penis doesn't really bother me all that much.

I don't know about the other critics of the Viz manga, but the things that really stuck out to me were various name changes and made-up dialogue (like the lines accompanying 'fat' Buu vs 'skinny' Buu) at different points in the Buu arc. Piccolo's speech patterns are also inconsistent. And the gun censorship on #17 plus the guys who shoot Mr. Satan is quite silly, especially when one of the those instances was 1 volume after Gohan had been kicking Cell Jr's in half. They don't explode in the manga...they leave behind mangled corpses.

[rereboy]

The manga's fine. There's 3 different (and pretty alright) ways to purchase it and maybe it's just me, but not seeing little Goku's penis doesn't really bother me all that much.

I don't know about the other critics of the Viz manga, but the things that really stuck out to me were various name changes and made-up dialogue (like the lines accompanying 'fat' Buu vs 'skinny' Buu) at different points in the Buu arc. Piccolo's speech patterns are also inconsistent. And the gun censorship on #17 plus the guys who shoot Mr. Satan is quite silly, especially when one of the those instances was 1 volume after Gohan had been kicking Cell Jr's in half. They don't explode in the manga...they leave behind mangled corpses.

Which makes the translation be not perfect, and also not excellent, but still great or pretty good. Having a few things/flaws that some don't really enjoy, doesn't automatically make it bad at all, like many like to argue.

[Duo]

The manga's fine. There's 3 different (and pretty alright) ways to purchase it and maybe it's just me, but not seeing little Goku's penis doesn't really bother me all that much.

I don't know about the other critics of the Viz manga, but the things that really stuck out to me were various name changes and made-up dialogue (like the lines accompanying 'fat' Buu vs 'skinny' Buu) at different points in the Buu arc. Piccolo's speech patterns are also inconsistent. And the gun censorship on #17 plus the guys who shoot Mr. Satan is quite silly, especially when one of the those instances was 1 volume after Gohan had been kicking Cell Jr's in half. They don't explode in the manga...they leave behind mangled corpses.

Which makes the translation be not perfect, and also not excellent, but still great or pretty good. Having a few things/flaws that some don't really enjoy, doesn't automatically make it bad at all, like many like to argue.

I don't wholly disagree with you. I have spent quite a bit of money on Viz products in the past (full color comics most recently) but I find it even more frustrating that the translation is/was done mostly well. The fewer flaws (in comparison to the FUNI Z dub) stand out even harder because it's not so easily to throw it all under the bus. Why can't they just clean those few things up for 1 release? Tis' nonsense to me.

[rereboy]

I don't wholly disagree with you. I have spent quite a bit of money on Viz products in the past (full color comics most recently) but I find it even more frustrating that the translation is/was done mostly well. The fewer flaws (in comparison to the FUNI Z dub) stand out even harder because it's not so easily to throw it all under the bus. Why can't they just clean those few things up for 1 release? Tis' nonsense to me.

Because it costs money and only a fraction of the fanbase actually has a problem with those few flaws. Heck, some of those flaws aren't even actual flaws, just alternative choices that some fans don't like (like using Djin, Vegerot, and so on).

The only problem I have with Viz is them marketing the 3-in-1 as uncensored, when they aren't. Now that really deserves criticism. The rest also deserves to be talked about as flaws, but not to the point where one asks how one is supposed to support the official release, imo.

[MCDaveG]

Well, I am so tired from importing every fart from abroad, which in 50 % ends at the toll house so it costs me even more and even the bricks for DBZ being released in Britain, wel, that is a one shitty release.
It's like buying Star Wars on VHS.

I simply didn't gave a fuck and downloaded Z Dragon Boxes from torrent. That's the only way I have a Z right now. As DBoxes came out, I was searching for a job, than the prices went sky rocketing high and I simply missed the opportunity.
Now I have it finally.

Still I have the whole series as original tankoubons, Vizbigs and half of the first Dragon Ball as those red books from Gollancz, so I am supporting as I can. The comic with all it's flaws isn't that messed up as Orange bricks tough.

[Duo]

I don't wholly disagree with you. I have spent quite a bit of money on Viz products in the past (full color comics most recently) but I find it even more frustrating that the translation is/was done mostly well. The fewer flaws (in comparison to the FUNI Z dub) stand out even harder because it's not so easily to throw it all under the bus. Why can't they just clean those few things up for 1 release? Tis' nonsense to me.

Because it costs money and only a fraction of the fanbase actually has a problem with those few flaws. Heck, some of those flaws aren't even actual flaws, just alternative choices that some fans don't like (like using Djin, Vegerot, and so on).

The only problem I have with Viz is them marketing the 3-in-1 as uncensored, when they aren't. Now that really deserves criticism. The rest also deserves to be talked about as flaws, but not to the point where one asks how one is supposed to support the official release, imo.

Given the repeated editions/releases, I simply don't feel it would cause too much trouble for them to attain full consistency in quality. If nothing else, the Buu arc is what really needs the attention.

And granted, I did recommend the majority of the Viz manga, so I'm not naysaying the support of official releases. I have always supported the official releases when it comes to the anime and the manga regardless of my disdain for various issues, and I feel that my support of those releases gives me some ground to state my dislikes in relationship to them.

[Super Sonic]

Well, I am so tired from importing every fart from abroad, which in 50 % ends at the toll house so it costs me even more and even the bricks for DBZ being released in Britain, wel, that is a one shitty release.
It's like buying Star Wars on VHS.

I simply didn't gave a fuck and downloaded Z Dragon Boxes from torrent. That's the only way I have a Z right now. As DBoxes came out, I was searching for a job, than the prices went sky rocketing high and I simply missed the opportunity.
Now I have it finally.

Still I have the whole series as original tankoubons, Vizbigs and half of the first Dragon Ball as those red books from Gollancz, so I am supporting as I can. The comic with all it's flaws isn't that messed up as Orange bricks tough.

If you don't mind my asking, is the series not available in your native tongue? Just wondering why you would import.

[Rukura]

...but not to the point where one asks how one is supposed to support the official release, imo.

I agree with you, until right about there.
Just like in your opinion they're not deal-breakers, anyone's within their right to be bothered by those things to the point of not wanting to buy it.

The knowledge of what I could be getting instead, without those things that bother me, is why I've been going out of my way to get the Japanese release of the manga instead of any Dragon Ball Viz release (the Portuguese release was the last straw for me, in terms of local releases) and haven't gotten any of the UK Bricks for DB or GT.

[MCDaveG]

Well, I am so tired from importing every fart from abroad, which in 50 % ends at the toll house so it costs me even more and even the bricks for DBZ being released in Britain, wel, that is a one shitty release.
It's like buying Star Wars on VHS.

I simply didn't gave a fuck and downloaded Z Dragon Boxes from torrent. That's the only way I have a Z right now. As DBoxes came out, I was searching for a job, than the prices went sky rocketing high and I simply missed the opportunity.
Now I have it finally.

Still I have the whole series as original tankoubons, Vizbigs and half of the first Dragon Ball as those red books from Gollancz, so I am supporting as I can. The comic with all it's flaws isn't that messed up as Orange bricks tough.

If you don't mind my asking, is the series not available in your native tongue? Just wondering why you would import.

Yeah, actually only avalaible thing in Czech Republic are the video games since DBZ Budokai 1 and Dragon Ball Evolution direct to DVD release with horrendous dub.
It's funny, but even the nations on Balkan peninsula got the series in whatever format, but only series marketed here big were Pokémon and Naruto.

So everything I want and can't get trough Comics Point shops I have to import - in case of Japanese stuff, that is everything.

[rereboy]

...but not to the point where one asks how one is supposed to support the official release, imo.

I agree with you, until right about there.
Just like in your opinion they're not deal-breakers, anyone's within their right to be bothered by those things to the point of not wanting to buy it.

The knowledge of what I could be getting instead, without those things that bother me, is why I've been going out of my way to get the Japanese release of the manga instead of any Dragon Ball Viz release (the Portuguese release was the last straw for me, in terms of local releases) and haven't gotten any of the UK Bricks for DB or GT.

I just stated what I think those flaws deserve, in my opinion. If a fan doesn't want to settle for anything besides a "perfect" release, they are free to do so... I just don't agree with that opinion at all. Nor do I understand the need to exaggerate the criticisms if that happens to be the case. Especially since there's nothing perfect, not even the japanese releases.

[Rukura]

...but not to the point where one asks how one is supposed to support the official release, imo.

I agree with you, until right about there.
Just like in your opinion they're not deal-breakers, anyone's within their right to be bothered by those things to the point of not wanting to buy it.

The knowledge of what I could be getting instead, without those things that bother me, is why I've been going out of my way to get the Japanese release of the manga instead of any Dragon Ball Viz release (the Portuguese release was the last straw for me, in terms of local releases) and haven't gotten any of the UK Bricks for DB or GT.

I just stated what I think those flaws deserve, in my opinion. If a fan doesn't want to settle for anything besides a "perfect" release, they are free to do so... I just don't agree with that opinion at all. Nor do I understand the need to exaggerate the criticisms if that happens to be the case. Especially since there's nothing perfect, not even the japanese releases.

And that's fair enough, I agree to disagree. And I do conceed that neither of the 3 main Japanese releases are perfect, either. But they're uncensored and there're no translation pitfalls, be them censorship or adaptation choices, and in 20-freaking-15 we still haven't nailed THAT in a Dragon Ball Viz release. Which would be "fine" if they didn't keep repeating the same things that the fans (be it a minority or not) keep asking them not to.

[Super Sonic]

Rukura, since your profile says you're in Portugal, why do you want the Viz release? Figured you'd want to read the manga in Portuguese so you'd get the manga from your country or import from Brazil.

[rereboy]

Rukura, since your profile says you're in Portugal, why do you want the Viz release? Figured you'd want to read the manga in Portuguese so you'd get the manga from your country or import from Brazil.

I'm guessing but it's probably because he understands English just fine, there's no complete portuguese manga release and, besides being easier to get Viz's releases than releases from Brazil, there's also sufficient differences in Portuguese from Brazil compared to Portuguese from Portugal for it to be jarring.