Toriyama confirms Golden Frieza's power level...?

[Doctor.]

Although I will say that I think it makes sense for Roshi to be able to improve and get his PL up to 4 digits or higher if he put serious effort into it.

Didn't he put serious effort into it his entire life and ended up less than 200 at his peak?

Yes, but he never got people around the millions in terms of BP to help him out in training before. He didn't even train with God (someone who's around ~300) and when the other humans did it for half a year, they went from ~200 to +1000.

If he gets so strong training alone, then it's stupid yeah.

[Galan007]

Roshi shouldn't even be remotely comparable to Krillin. That's absolutely ridiculous.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Although I will say that I think it makes sense for Roshi to be able to improve and get his PL up to 4 digits or higher if he put serious effort into it.

Didn't he put serious effort into it his entire life and ended up less than 200 at his peak?

Aside from training a few students he basically just ended up watching TV and reading dirty magazines all day for most of his later life.

[funrush]

Krillin is on par with Namek arc Freeza, and achieved that strength through special means, like training with Kami, and getting his power unlocked by the Grand Elder. Not to mention having 18 as a sparring partner. Unless 18 gave Roshi a training course, I can barely see how Roshi gets to 4 or 5 digits, let alone Krillin level.

[Darkprince410]

Krillin is on par with Namek arc Freeza, and achieved that strength through special means, like training with Kami, and getting his power unlocked by the Grand Elder. Not to mention having 18 as a sparring partner. Unless 18 gave Roshi a training course, I can barely see how Roshi gets to 4 or 5 digits, let alone Krillin level.

There's no indication that Kuririn ever reaches that level of power, be it Freeza's first form or his true form. In fact, we're never given any evidence that he ever exceeded the 75,000 he had during the battle with Freeza.

[Galan007]

There's no indication that Kuririn ever reaches that level of power, be it Freeza's first form or his true form. In fact, we're never given any evidence that he ever exceeded the 75,000 he had during the battle with Freeza.

Per Vegeta and the Daizenshuu, Krillin's BP gradually rose throughout the remainder of the Freeza saga after receiving the Grand Elder's power-unlock. So it is entirely possible that by the end of the saga he far-exceeded the 75,000 V-Jump credits him with... But that's neither here nor there. After all, even if we cap Krillin at 75k, there's really no logical way for Roshi to have increased his PL by that much(over 400x), given that he underwent no real training to speak of.

On another note, Krillin explicitly sparring with #18 is filler.

[supercat]

It's quite probable that Krillin's power was somewhere in the realm of 75,000 on the low end and around 2-3 million on the high end of that spectrum. With his power benefiting from residual increases, for a that given period of time, what he had was quite akin to a Zenkai. Personally, I've always assumed that the human fighters each stagnated around 2-3 million by the Buu arc.

[funrush]

Krillin is on par with Namek arc Freeza, and achieved that strength through special means, like training with Kami, and getting his power unlocked by the Grand Elder. Not to mention having 18 as a sparring partner. Unless 18 gave Roshi a training course, I can barely see how Roshi gets to 4 or 5 digits, let alone Krillin level.

There's no indication that Kuririn ever reaches that level of power, be it Freeza's first form or his true form. In fact, we're never given any evidence that he ever exceeded the 75,000 he had during the battle with Freeza.

I could've sworn a guidebook said Buu Saga Krillin was Freeza-tier? I remember hearing that a couple times.

[Darkprince410]

I could've sworn a guidebook said Buu Saga Krillin was Freeza-tier? I remember hearing that a couple times.

No, the last official range of power we're ever given for Kuririn was the V-Jump listed battle power of 75,000 for the time frame of his battle with Freeza. Neither he, nor any of the other human characters, are ever stated to be at a level beyond this point. While it's possible that they are higher than that, nothing's ever been officially stated on the matter.

[h0kuten]

I could've sworn a guidebook said Buu Saga Krillin was Freeza-tier? I remember hearing that a couple times.

No, the last official range of power we're ever given for Kuririn was the V-Jump listed battle power of 75,000 for the time frame of his battle with Freeza. Neither he, nor any of the other human characters, are ever stated to be at a level beyond this point. While it's possible that they are higher than that, nothing's ever been officially stated on the matter.

You actually trust V-Jump?

[Darkprince410]

I could've sworn a guidebook said Buu Saga Krillin was Freeza-tier? I remember hearing that a couple times.

No, the last official range of power we're ever given for Kuririn was the V-Jump listed battle power of 75,000 for the time frame of his battle with Freeza. Neither he, nor any of the other human characters, are ever stated to be at a level beyond this point. While it's possible that they are higher than that, nothing's ever been officially stated on the matter.

You actually trust V-Jump?

Outside of the battle powers for Coola, Broly, and Ssj Gogeta, which were done specific for the Budoukai 3 fighting game, the majority of the V-Jump battle powers are accurate when you compare them to the Daizenshuu, so as a whole, it's a reliable source.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I personally don't see a battle power of 75,000 having any relevance to or being any help against 1st form Freeza (530,000). I have Krillin at 320,000, personally.

Was V-Jump also the source of Piccolo Daimao's 260 (which is higher than BOZ Tenshinhan's 250)? I

[Darkprince410]

I personally don't see a battle power of 75,000 having any relevance to or being any help against 1st form Freeza (530,000). I have Krillin at 320,000, personally.

Kuririn wasn't really of any relevance or any help against Freeza's first form anyway during the small time frame he battled in that form. All Kuririn had going for him at any point during that battle was his ki-enzan, as otherwise he was basically indicated to be outgunned.

Was V-Jump also the source of Piccolo Daimao's 260 (which is higher than BOZ Tenshinhan's 250)? I

No, the 260 came from both the Daizenshuu and the 31st issue of Weekly Shonen Jump. Besides, I don't see why 250 for Tenshinhan is necessarily inaccurate compared to that value. We don't know what Tenshinhan was doing at the time (he may have been sleeping for all we know), so the 250 could have been a baseline, powered-down state. like Roshi's 137 or Kuririn's 206.

The only battle powers given for V-Jump are

Vegeta, after fighting Recoom: 250,000
Gohan, normal: 200,000
Gohan, emotional: “?”
Kuririn, after fighting Gurd: 75,000

and then the entries for Coola, Broly, and Ssj Gogeta for Budoukai 3.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Kuririn wasn't really of any relevance or any help against Freeza's first form anyway during the small time frame he battled in that form. All Kuririn had going for him at any point during that battle was his ki-enzan, as otherwise he was basically indicated to be outgunned.

Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P9.1-5
Vegeta: “We can win! If the 3 of us fight together, we’ll be able to win somehow or another! [ ] It seems that even Freeza hasn’t noticed…These two’s battle power is steadily rising…The squirt in particular hides so much inner strength that he doesn’t even know it himself…And I’m in the process of becoming what you’re afraid of: a Super Saiyan…!”

Vegeta considers Krillin and Gohan help when fighting Freeza, even complimenting their power, and believes if all three of them work together, they can beat Freeza. Is Vegeta really one to spare Krillin's feelings when the latter's battle power is worth nothing compared to Freeza's?

Saying "Krillin has the kienzan" sounds like an excuse in my opinion. If we're just going with "Krillin is really weak but can cut things in half" then he should've been considered useful against the Androids or Cell Juniors.

No, the 260 came from both the Daizenshuu and the 31st issue of Weekly Shonen Jump. Besides, I don't see why 250 for Tenshinhan is necessarily inaccurate compared to that value. We don't know what Tenshinhan was doing at the time (he may have been sleeping for all we know), so the 250 could have been a baseline, powered-down state. like Roshi's 137 or Kuririn's 206.

Did Tenshinhan know how to actually suppress before God's training? Because there is a difference between "surfacing" chi / resting chi, and actually suppressing chi to hide it from a scouter, while the former only tricks chi sensors, not scouters.

I also personally doubt those numbers were said to be misinforming. Krillin bragged about his power being higher than Roshi's which doesn't make sense if it wasn't either of their full powers.

I assume you disagree with BoZ Tenshinhan being weaker than Young Daimao since it doesn't make much sense with weighted Goku vs. Tenshinhan at the 23rd TB as well?

Vegeta, after fighting Recoom: 250,000

That is also too low, in my opinion. Vegeta was weaker than Freeza, but not one-shot material, that seems ridiculous to me.

[Darkprince410]

Vegeta considers Krillin and Gohan help when fighting Freeza, even complimenting their power, and believes if all three of them work together, they can beat Freeza. Is Vegeta really one to spare Krillin's feelings when the latter's battle power is worth nothing compared to Freeza's?

They'll be able to win "somehow or another", meaning he's not sure how they'd be able to do it. Besides, Kuririn's battle power was steadily rising from where it was before, so Vegeta may have assumed it'd continue doing so. Besides, given his dialogue, he was banking more heavily on himself and Gohan than anyone else.

I assume you disagree with BoZ Tenshinhan being weaker than Young Daimao since it doesn't make much sense with weighted Goku vs. Tenshinhan at the 23rd TB as well?

I do think it's perfectly feasible that Tenshinhan was capable of a level above that of Daimao with his youth restored.

That is also too low, in my opinion. Vegeta was weaker than Freeza, but not one-shot material, that seems ridiculous to me.

If Vegeta was closer to Freeza than that, then he'd be less uncertain as to how they'd win. Besides, that battle power could have been taking into account his mental exhaustion from having been awake for days on end, rather than his condition after his nap.

[ShaneisMC]

They seriously actually say a line about having a 1.3 million power level in the movie? I remember people talking about that very shortly after news about the movie came but that really stuck?

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Is Kami's 220 level in the Weekly Jump Battle Power list, too?

[Hugo Boss]

They seriously actually say a line about having a 1.3 million power level in the movie? I remember people talking about that very shortly after news about the movie came but that really stuck?

Freeza says he will achieve a powerlevel of 1.3 million after 4 months of training, at least in the Brazilian version. I don't remember how much time passed since his revival and the battle on Earth.

[ShaneisMC]

They seriously actually say a line about having a 1.3 million power level in the movie? I remember people talking about that very shortly after news about the movie came but that really stuck?

Freeza says he will achieve a powerlevel of 1.3 million after 4 months of training, at least in the Brazilian version. I don't remember how much time passed since his revival and the battle on Earth.

Please tell me this wasnt mentioned in the Funi dub. Either put some serious real effort into giving believable numbers at this point in the story or probably preferably just leave them out period. They worked for the arcs they were a part of. They should stay there.

[Hugo Boss]

If I'm not mistaken, it's also part of Volume F's script as well as it is mentioned in the Japanese original version. What isn't clear is what form Freeza has in mind while saying this, it could mean something stronger than Majin Boo.