The main themes of each arc

[ekrolo2]

Those themes in Z you call them were not only not planned but simply there just cause, no, GT even managed to retain the real main focus: Entertain by being funny and show action in parts of the main heroes' life. GT did exactly that, whether you accept it or not.

It's important that any time we talk about GT we reinforce the fact that it sucked. Some other things might come up here and there, but it's important to end the discussion on that note so people don't forget.

I thought we had to reinforce the fact "it's not canon"?

[SpiritBombTriumphant]

It did not have any of Toriyama's themes that made the series so lovable, so despite what you mentioned GT still sucked.

Those themes in Z you call them were not only not planned but simply there just cause, no, GT even managed to retain the real main focus: Entertain by being funny and show action in parts of the main heroes' life. GT did exactly that, whether you accept it or not.

I never said they were planned, but it's still Toriyama's style. That's just how things work. He could've easily gone in other directions but then nothing would ever change: we'd simply see the bad guy get beaten and a new guy come around (like in GT). Even when someone doesn't plan something out, their work still has a style to it. GT may have had a focus, but it lacked other elements that Z had and made it so much fun. I would have delved more into this topic in my last comment, but I don't want to hijack the thread.

I thought we had to reinforce the fact "it's not canon"?

Nah, Cipher is correct. Someone just makes a new thread for that every time we get new material. Hence my sig.

[JulieYBM]

Would that make the theme of the third Dragon Ball movie the fall of the Japanese Empire to western white man speaking into the ear of the emperor?

[Cetra]

we'd simply see the bad guy get beaten and a new guy come around (like in GT).

You have described exactly what Z is. Introduce a bad guy in a very shallow and simple situation, beat him over the course of 3-5 vol., repeat. Oh, yes, and before that there are sub-battles. Dragon Ball is just that. The themes you think of, if they exist, are just ignored by you in GT. It tries to be funny, serious, Goku is the main chara, it shows you may never give up, it shows that the power of fighting together and fighting for the right thing can make you overcome everything, short, it is a typical fantasy story and all that stuff is in Z as well. You know what bugs me? Z. I loved DB adventures like the pirate cave but Z reached a point of "oh, how can they do such stuff now?", oh, you are right, GT did somethin different, because it did not care and said "let's just do it". And it became less limited that way.

[TheUltimateVegito]

There's another theme I never really thought about that was part of the RRA arc and the Cell arc that relates to Goku's development during both arcs and that is the responsibility of one's actions and the rewards and that come with it.

In the RRA arc it was Goku who attracted Tao Pai Pai to near Korin's Tower, which resulted in Bora getting killed, which lead to him deciding to get all the Dragon Balls instead of keeping his Grandpa Gohan's ball for himself in order to wish Bora back to life. This selfless act led to him being rewarded by seeing Grandpa Gohan one last time during Baba's tournament.

In the Cell arc it was Goku's actions which led to the Androids and Cell being created, which resulted in hell on earth in a different timeline with his son dying at the hands of the androids. This hell and the events of the Cell Games made Goku contemplate the consequences that comes with his actions. His contemplation led to him deciding to make Gohan stronger than himself to secure the future of his own timeline as well as ridding the world of the Android threat. Goku decided that the Earth would be safer without him due to him attracting bad guys throughout his adventures (Including Tao Pai Pai!) as well as believing himself as a person wasn't suited to stay on earth due to the guilt he suffered from letting his son get tortured by Cell which almost led to the earth being eradicated and the fact that he's a Saiyan, and that Gohan has grown into a better protector (And person) than him. He was rewarded in the other world due to his pure hearted nature and the fact that he saved the earth numerous times.

It's pure genius! Especially since the events of the RRA arc directly led to the events of the Android arc and the theme that both arcs share correspond with the storytelling of the arcs, with Goku's actions attracting bad guys in both arcs.

There are even extra little touches that adds to its genius! Remember when Baba said Goku would save the world? Well, him saving the world was what led to his rewards in the Cell arc. Remember when Gohan told Goku that he doesn't need to wish him back? Well, Goku said the same thing to Gohan at the end of the Cell arc.

Not to mention that the main theme of Dragon Ball which is "There's always someone stronger" relates to Goku's decision to stay dead, because he believes that he could potentially attract a stronger villain.

Seriously, it's amazing how Toriyama wrote the story by the seat of his pants. It's even more amazing to think that he probably wasn't even aware of his genius!

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

(...)Seriously, it's amazing how Toriyama wrote the story by the seat of his pants. It's even more amazing to think that he probably wasn't even aware of his genius!

What makes Toriyama so amazing is that very few can dream to archive a feat of such magnitude, which he manages to do without breaking a sweat !

[TheUltimateVegito]

(...)Seriously, it's amazing how Toriyama wrote the story by the seat of his pants. It's even more amazing to think that he probably wasn't even aware of his genius!

What makes Toriyama so amazing is that very few can dream to archive a feat of such magnitude, which he manages to do without breaking a sweat !

I know right? It blows my mind!