My problem with Super's depiction of Beerus

[Blackstripe]

So, after giving it some consideration, I still think I prefer BoG!Beerus over Super!Beerus.

Now, Super!Beerus isn't as shallow or poorly written as I first thought. He does indeed have some genuinely good moments. I blame failing to spot some of those on Dragon Team's bumbling release schedule.

But his character was altered. Beerus in the movies demanded respect, but also gave it in return. Let me give you one example that has a direct parallel between the movie and the series: Shenron.

In both the series and movie, Shenron is frightened of Beerus. In both versions, he is very respectful of Beerus, and adheres to his desires. In BoG, Beerus is cordial to him and politely asks him to hurry and tell them about the Super Saiyan God. In Super, he pointlessly threatens Shenron. Why?

Same with Kaio. Both are unfailingly polite, but only in Super does Beerus act rude towards him and threaten to blow his world up again. Why? Because he was too polite!! He was trying to wait on him hand and foot like he demanded of King Vegeta, but all it got him was threatened. I mean, what?

And you can say what you want about his justifications, but there's no reason for him to constantly act smug and grin like a troll. I feel like someone gave a /b/tard God powers half the time. Just look at how he introduces himself to Vegeta. In BoG, he's lounging by the pool with Whis and casually greets him, asking about the SSG. In Super, he does this...creepy psychological mind game for no good reason, though bonus points for the Fist of the North Star reference.

As others have pointed out, it's mainly that...no matter what you do in Super, it seems Beerus is going to act smug and threaten you. This wasn't how he was in the movies. It took Buu being very rude to him before he even directly insulted someone...which I thought made it more hilarious, since he'd been ultra polite up till that point. "GIVE ME ONE YOU DUMB BLOB!!"

And then there's of course when he slaps Bulma. In BoG it's a simple smack that knocks her to the ground. In Super...well, they might as well have given him a top hat and twirly mustache for that scene because it's just that hilariously over the top and ridiculous. I mean, really.

So while no, Beerus isn't nearly as evil as Freeza even in Super, and does have good character development through his interactions with Gokuu, I still think they could have given him all of that without making him come across like smug asshole that demands respect but gives it to no one. You could have had the same level of development without Beerus being such a pointless jerk.

[fexus]

I really like Super Beerus more as he feels more like a God than a villainous friend like Vegeta. He seems to know his postion in the universe and know which people are genuinely trying to respect him. He wants to be respected but at the same time he doesn't want people to fear him. This is different from BoG Beerus where it seems he doesn't care as to what kind way people respect him but he just want people to respect him.

[Blackstripe]

I really like Super Beerus more as he feels more like a God than a villainous friend like Vegeta. He seems to know his postion in the universe and know which people are genuinely trying to respect him. He wants to be respected but at the same time he doesn't want people to fear him. This is different from BoG Beerus where it seems he doesn't care as to what kind way people respect him but he just want people to respect him.

Huh? Isn't it exactly the opposite of that?

Super!Beerus was the one that was constantly grinning like a serial killer and scaring people.

[fexus]

I really like Super Beerus more as he feels more like a God than a villainous friend like Vegeta. He seems to know his postion in the universe and know which people are genuinely trying to respect him. He wants to be respected but at the same time he doesn't want people to fear him. This is different from BoG Beerus where it seems he doesn't care as to what kind way people respect him but he just want people to respect him.

Huh? Isn't it exactly the opposite of that?

Super!Beerus was the one that was constantly grinning like a serial killer and scaring people.

He was constantly grinning because he was playful like a child. He never outrights show his superiority when he first show up just like in BoG but in Super he seems like he was messing with Vegeta.
Basically, Super Beerus is the same as BoG Beerus but in Super there is more to his character because it has a lot more time to developed.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

He's not messing with Vegeta because he was being playful, he was basically torturing him because of his hatred for what the Saiyans were prior to his sleeping. This is something made abundantly clear after his arrival:

--The mind games he plays upon arrival
--Threatening Vegeta right after
--The devilish smirk he shoots Vegeta when Bluma is introducing him to everyone else
--Talking down to Vegeta throughout the whole conversation before the boy shoot him with the squirt guns
--Calling his warrior race pathetic and saying they always choke in the clutch
--Comparing Vegeta to his father and humiliating him in a similar way
--And even initially telling Goku that after he dropped out of SSG, that he didn't want to waste his full power on a mere Saiyan

It's not all that different than how Freeza trated them, without all the derogatory "monkey" remarks.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

I feel like they made him this ridiculous mustache twirling villain with few redeeming traits...you know, like the standard Z villain, which he wasn't. Part of what made BoG so unique and different from most Dragon Ball stories was that Beerus wasn't like most enemies they faced (and the fact that Gokuu actually loses).

On what Doctor said, what I prefer with Super's Beerus is that Beerus actually has a personality a bit more so than being just BoG's impatient, selfish mystery man. He has his own pride, and standards for himself. What makes him unique is the fact that he isn't evil, but they had to still give him the threat to enforce as well, which is why they made him a bit more sadistic and apathetic circumstantially as opposed to him just "teaching Goku" about God ki as he was in BoG. Most people's problem with BoG from what I remember, was from the fact that Beerus wasn't enough of a villain for the movie to feel it had any stakes at all to hold onto. Beerus there seemed more bored and lazy than threatening, because he was so much more powerful than everyone else there. In Super, he had more enjoyment out of tolerating the Z-fighters rather than playing with them, which lets the audience still take him seriously as the antagonist. It also gave Vegeta a bigger reason to fear him because he would show his apathetic side when he was disrespected and thats when his authority as a god comes out. The fight was very reminiscent of the original Freeza fights in tone for me.

[ZombieVito]

Dragon Ball Super decides to take Battle of Gods and flesh it out in a way the movie never had the sufficient run time to do so. It builds up Beerus as a credible threat and villain (something the movie only had time to SAY instead of showing), by showing us his more sadistic, evil and destroyer side while also not omitting the playful side we've come to know and love in BoG.

Beerus is not a shallow, cookie-cutter villain like some that have came before him. His character is developed through his battle with Goku (which is more than someone can say for BoG): he is someone whose humongous power always prompts him to go to sleep in hope of someone strong sometime showing up. One can even characterize Beerus' sleeping habits as a method he uses to outright avoid insanity due to sheer boredom. The show makes an effort to humanize the character through his battle with the Super Saiyan God, mainly with his "I'm sleepy" rant, by showing us his disappointment and desperation.

This, unfortunately, comes at a price of Goku's fantastic character development present in Battle of Gods, but it gives a lot more insight into Beerus than the movie bothered to give. Throwaway lines in the movie like Piccolo's "It looks like Goku is being trained", now make sense as Beerus teaches/helps Goku to train his Super Saiyan God power in Super, while in Battle of Gods he was already able to use 100% of the power-up from the get-go.

His obsession over food is another aspect of his character that is kinda overblown in Super, and one I didn't pay much attention to at first glance, due to its gag-rooted nature, but it's a fundamental aspect of the character when coupled with his obsession over respect. He doesn't let civilizations live just because of good food, he'll let them live if they treat him with respect. Super gives actual meaning to his pettiness. He can either spare you or kill you depending on how you treat him.

A fascinating part of Beerus' character is his moral alignment: he's constantly being portrayed as evil to us, the audience, yet the characters in the show (namely Kaio, Kaioshin and even Goku after Kaio explains it to him) always refuse to call him as such. Despite his sadistic side, his destruction does have meaning, even if the way he chooses his planets doesn't. Super brings up the question "Is it right to call a being evil when his purpose in life is to destroy?". One can say this question was borrowed from Boo, but said arc never bothered to delve into the moral and ethical implications of such. Fascinating lines such as #11's "This is a battle between Gods. How could human lives possibly compare?" make it clear that Super is trying to provoke thought.

One can say that Beerus' high-and-mighty nature is similar to Freeza. But unlike him (and Cell), who simply pretends that he's above everyone else, Beerus, by the laws of the multiverse that he exists on, actually IS superior to everyone else. In his mind, he's a "generous God", generous enough to spare their planet when destruction is in his very name, he deserves respect as he is, in any sense of the word, superior to all of them.

An "evil" God, that's a fairly common archetype in fiction. But it's the first time Dragon Ball ever does anything of the sort. It's not the first time we've had an amoral character, we've had one in the form of Boo, but it's the first time where an amoral character isn't being punished for his actions because he simply cannot be. It works even better when you take into account that Beerus serves as an anti-Goku (even more-so than someone like Perfect Cell), as there's an interesting duality between the two. They share incredible similarities: both share a huge love for food and, when not eating, they seek new challenges to test their strength. Take away the destroyer God aspect of Beerus' personality and he represents what Goku one day may become: someone who got so strong he constantly gets bored because there's nobody to challenge him (Whis doesn't count because he's stronger than Beerus and it's pretty much hinted at that Beerus will never surpass him), to clash with him at equal (or close enough) strength. Goku empathizes with Beerus' struggle and talks to him, and the God gets annoyed, screaming "You can't possibly understand", which is true considering Goku has yet to be in his place.

Beerus' character arc is closed off nicely in episode #13. When Goku loses his God power, Beerus calls him a "friend" and decides to give him a proper goodbye. What follows is Goku's fantastic "I am me" line. That's such a brilliant line, considering that Beerus has been calling Goku the "Super Saiyan God" the entire fight, and that everyone was expecting Goku to lose the moment the God power disappeared. Beerus never acknowledged Goku's strength before that point, he only acknowledged the Super Saiyan God's.

In hindsight, Beerus is a fantastically-written character, one of Dragon Ball's best. He's written in a way that it's impossible to say that it's not on purpose. I think both Super and BoG's depictions of the character are fantastic, but I personally prefer Super's for the added depth to the character.

Fantastic post.

[fexus]

He's not messing with Vegeta because he was being playful, he was basically torturing him because of his hatred for what the Saiyans were prior to his sleeping. This is something made abundantly clear after his arrival:

--The mind games he plays upon arrival
--Threatening Vegeta right after
--The devilish smirk he shoots Vegeta when Bluma is introducing him to everyone else
--Talking down to Vegeta throughout the whole conversation before the boy shoot him with the squirt guns
--Calling his warrior race pathetic and saying they always choke in the clutch
--Comparing Vegeta to his father and humiliating him in a similar way
--And even initially telling Goku that after he dropped out of SSG, that he didn't want to waste his full power on a mere Saiyan

It's not all that different than how Freeza trated them, without all the derogatory "monkey" remarks.

He was being playful though. He didn't hurt anyone. He didn't threaten anyone. It's a type of banter obviously. Except this banter is one sided. You see when he was talking with the others he doesn't harbor any hostility towards them. Even to Goku who is also a saiyan. He acted like that towards Vegeta because he knows him.

But he never goes full power. Even when Goku was a SSG. Even after going out of SSG, Beerus still praise Goku as he still can fight on the same level.

You guys are really making him look more evil than he actually is.

[dbzfan7]

He's not messing with Vegeta because he was being playful, he was basically torturing him because of his hatred for what the Saiyans were prior to his sleeping. This is something made abundantly clear after his arrival:

--The mind games he plays upon arrival
--Threatening Vegeta right after
--The devilish smirk he shoots Vegeta when Bluma is introducing him to everyone else
--Talking down to Vegeta throughout the whole conversation before the boy shoot him with the squirt guns
--Calling his warrior race pathetic and saying they always choke in the clutch
--Comparing Vegeta to his father and humiliating him in a similar way
--And even initially telling Goku that after he dropped out of SSG, that he didn't want to waste his full power on a mere Saiyan

It's not all that different than how Freeza trated them, without all the derogatory "monkey" remarks.

Well said. I was kinda bothered I think by Beerus in BOG, and more so FNF. Though at least with Battle of Gods I think I began to warm up to him more. Then Super kinda made me not like him anymore. I believe Kaiser may have had some good points too, though I don't remember where his post was.

[DragonHermit]

Anyone else think Beerus will die at the end? Would love to see Vegeta or Goku the destroyer. Long way from carrying milk with Krillin under Roshi's guidance