Gotenks's strength

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Personally, I'd prefer to assume fusion is something predictable or something not impossible to predict (like many make it out to be) instead of assuming that Goku was talking out of his ass and potentially sending his 6-year-old son, his wife, and his life-long best friends along with their children to their deaths and endangering the whole universe. But hey, that's just me.

[Truhan]

I only have SSJ3 Gotenks 1.6 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku, and Ultimate Gohan 2 times stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks. They match my predictions of Buu's power, using symbolic numbers:

10000 - SSJ2 Vegetto (SSJ2 to the power of 2)
8192 - Super Buu w/ Ultimate Gohan
4096 - Super Buu w/ SSJ3 Gotenks
1280 - Ultimate Gohan
640 - Super Buu, SSJ3 Gotenks
400 - Kid Buu, SSJ3 Goku
320 - Buff Buu, Evil Buu
200 - Good Buu
160 - Fat Buu
100 - SSJ2 Goku, Vegeta, Gohan
80 - South Kai, SSJ Gotenks
50 - Dai Kai, SSJ Goku, Vegeta, Gohan
1.6 - Base Gotenks
1 - Base Goku, Vegeta, Gohan
0.08 - Base Trunks, Goten

[LightBing]

If you read these following quotes, you his certainty, initially, turn into a gamble.

The gamble is two immature little kids learning a technique that has to be specific to the point of lining up their fingers perfectly in three days, not because of fusion's power. This is evident by Piccolo being the one who calls it a gamble first; Piccolo doesn't know how powerful fusion is, he only has Goku's word to go off of, he does however know that fusion is a difficult technique to learn, and that they have a short time-frame to learn it.

Piccolo use of the word gamble isn't in the same chapter of the quote I showed. I was illustrating how Goku went from certain to unsure, what happens between this is: he feels the kids full power and fight's Majin Boo. Then he applys the word gamble.
Goku said he might have gained two days(3?), after his altercation with Boo. If by the last day there were still behind, or the population was almost exterminated. They could use the RoSaT. I say time was not a gamble.

Personally, I'd prefer to assume fusion is something predictable or something not impossible to predict (like many make it out to be) instead of assuming that Goku was talking out of his ass and potentially sending his 6-year-old son, his wife, and his life-long best friends along with their children to their deaths and endangering the whole universe. But hey, that's just me.

It's predicable to a point. Goku estimation felt short by a bit. Assuming that from Goku should be normal, he is a selfish person. Like when he saved Vegeta, who promised to came back and kill them all. Or gambling on Gohan to be stronger than Cell, even giving a senzu to him... He's not above of risking everyone's life for his own beliefs/reasons.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Piccolo use of the word gamble isn't in the same chapter of the quote I showed. I was illustrating how Goku went from certain to unsure, what happens between this is: he feels the kids full power and fight's Majin Boo. Then he applys the word gamble.
Goku said he might have gained two days(3?), after his altercation with Boo. If by the last day there were still behind, or the population was almost exterminated. They could use the RoSaT. I say time was not a gamble.

Piccolo used the word gamble before Goku, no? So Goku reusing the word is just him agreeing with Piccolo. It'd make no sense for Goku to contradict himself by saying they'll be strong enough to beat Boo and then saying it's a gamble if they'll be strong enough. This is not the scenario if "gamble" refers to time, because Goku explicitly said not to use the Room of Spirit and Time.

It's predicable to a point. Goku estimation felt short by a bit. Assuming that from Goku should be normal, he is a selfish person. Like when he saved Vegeta, who promised to came back and kill them all. Or gambling on Gohan to be stronger than Cell, even giving a senzu to him... He's not above of risking everyone's life for his own beliefs/reasons.

Who said his estimation felt short by a bit?

In all of those situations you posted, Goku ended up being right about his predictions... what does that tell you?

[Lord Beerus]

I only have SSJ3 Gotenks 1.6 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku, and Ultimate Gohan 2 times stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks. They match my predictions of Buu's power, using symbolic numbers:

10000 - SSJ2 Vegetto (SSJ2 to the power of 2)
8192 - Super Buu w/ Ultimate Gohan
4096 - Super Buu w/ SSJ3 Gotenks
1280 - Ultimate Gohan
640 - Super Buu, SSJ3 Gotenks
400 - Kid Buu, SSJ3 Goku
320 - Buff Buu, Evil Buu
200 - Good Buu
160 - Fat Buu
100 - SSJ2 Goku, Vegeta, Gohan
80 - South Kai, SSJ Gotenks
50 - Dai Kai, SSJ Goku, Vegeta, Gohan
16 - Base Gotenks
1 - Base Goku, Vegeta, Gohan
0.8 - Base Trunks, Goten

I'd say SSJ3 Gotenks is at the bare minimum x3 stronger than SSJ3 Goku. I mean, you have to take into context that Goku was flat out frightened at the prospect of taking on Super Boo by himself, and in comparison, SSJ3 Gotenks was beating Super Boo to death and was on the verge of killing him.

[Truhan]

I only have SSJ3 Gotenks 1.6 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku, and Ultimate Gohan 2 times stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks. They match my predictions of Buu's power, using symbolic numbers:

10000 - SSJ2 Vegetto (SSJ2 to the power of 2)
8192 - Super Buu w/ Ultimate Gohan
4096 - Super Buu w/ SSJ3 Gotenks
1280 - Ultimate Gohan
640 - Super Buu, SSJ3 Gotenks
400 - Kid Buu, SSJ3 Goku
320 - Buff Buu, Evil Buu
200 - Good Buu
160 - Fat Buu
100 - SSJ2 Goku, Vegeta, Gohan
80 - South Kai, SSJ Gotenks
50 - Dai Kai, SSJ Goku, Vegeta, Gohan
1.6 - Base Gotenks
1 - Base Goku, Vegeta, Gohan
0.08 - Base Trunks, Goten

I'd say SSJ3 Gotenks is at the bare minimum x3 stronger than SSJ3 Goku. I mean, you have to take into context that Goku was flat out frightened at the prospect of taking on Super Boo by himself, and in comparison, SSJ3 Gotenks was beating Super Boo to death and was on the verge of killing him.

I think they are perfect like this, because SSJ2 Gotenks takes on Fat Buu, if necessary. Perhaps that's what Goku was expecting out of the kids' fusion. Besides, if you increase Super Buu's power through SSJ3 Gotenks' absorption, and then Gohan's, Vegetto's power would become way too bloated for it to make sense. I considered his power as a SSJ2 (despite not knowing if he really was a SSJ2) to be Goku and Vegeta's transformations multiplied by each other. In this case, SSJ Vegetto would be above Ultimate Gohan with 2500, and below Super Buu w/ SSJ3 Gotenks. As an extra, Goku and Vegeta's fusion dance would put SSJ Gogeta above Super Buu.

EDIT: I made a mistake in my Gotenks calculations... I'll proceed to correct them.
EDIT 2: The bolded parts are correct now.

[LightBing]

Piccolo use of the word gamble isn't in the same chapter of the quote I showed. I was illustrating how Goku went from certain to unsure, what happens between this is: he feels the kids full power and fight's Majin Boo. Then he applys the word gamble.
Goku said he might have gained two days(3?), after his altercation with Boo. If by the last day there were still behind, or the population was almost exterminated. They could use the RoSaT. I say time was not a gamble.

Piccolo used the word gamble before Goku, no? So Goku reusing the word is just him agreeing with Piccolo. It'd make no sense for Goku to contradict himself by saying they'll be strong enough to beat Boo and then saying it's a gamble if they'll be strong enough. This is not the scenario if "gamble" refers to time, because Goku explicitly said not to use the Room of Spirit and Time.

Why would he agree with Piccolo, if he even said not to use the RoSaT and was sure the kids would be strong enough? My point is that he was sure initially, however the kids turn out to be weaker than he thought or Boo stronger than he thought ;probably a combination of the too. I provided the quotes to support my reasoning, Kaboom post also states significant info. In the end we only have Goku's words, that aren't contradicted neither are confirmed. No point in further discussing this technicalities back and forth.

It's predicable to a point. Goku estimation felt short by a bit. Assuming that from Goku should be normal, he is a selfish person. Like when he saved Vegeta, who promised to came back and kill them all. Or gambling on Gohan to be stronger than Cell, even giving a senzu to him... He's not above of risking everyone's life for his own beliefs/reasons.

Who said his estimation felt short by a bit?

In all of those situations you posted, Goku ended up being right about his predictions... what does that tell you?

He did not and it's not the point. The point being he doesn't mind risking everyone's life.
In the first situation Vegeta, almost killed his son and best friend in Namek, dumb luck made it not happen.Goku didn't risk Vegeta would turn good.
In the second he clearly failed, or else he wouldn't have been dead for 7 years, even needing to hold his son's hand to get the kill.

[Darkprince410]

I think they are perfect like this, because SSJ2 Gotenks takes on Fat Buu, if necessary. Perhaps that's what Goku was expecting out of the kids' fusion. Besides, if you increase Super Buu's power through SSJ3 Gotenks' absorption, and then Gohan's, Vegetto's power would become way too bloated for it to make sense. I considered his power as a SSJ2 (despite not knowing if he really was a SSJ2) to be Goku and Vegeta's transformations multiplied by each other. In this case, SSJ Vegetto would be above Ultimate Gohan with 2500, and below Super Buu w/ SSJ3 Gotenks. As an extra, Goku and Vegeta's fusion dance would put SSJ Gogeta above Super Buu.

EDIT: I made a mistake in my Gotenks calculations... I'll proceed to correct them.
EDIT 2: The bolded parts are correct now.

There's a few problems with your calculations with that.

1) There's no evidence that Gotenks was capable of anything beyond regular Super Saiya-jin when he was lined up to fight against Fat Buu, so just randomly assuming they had or would have Super Saiya-jin 2 is reaching. Goku basically indicated that once they mastered the dance, that's all the boys would need to be able to beat Buu, so, at best, he could only really be assuming regular Ssj Gotenks.

2) Outside of the single panel shown when he first transformed, all evidence points to Vegetto being Super Saiya-jin, not Ssj2. He's lacking the lightning, his hair doesn't fit right for being a mix of Ssj2 Goku and Vegeta's (but fits if it's just their Ssj transformations), and the Daizenshuu establishes him as just regular Super Saiya-jin.

3) Goku actually indicates a power decrease in Buu when he reverts from South Kaioushin Buu ("Buff" Buu) to Pure Buu, establishing that they've succeeded in weakening him to a form where they could manage something, whereas in both Evil Buu and South Kaioushin Buu's case, they were too powerful for him and Vegeta to take on without fusion of some form.

4) For Super Saiya-jin Gogeta to be that high, it'd require Goku and Vegeta to be over eight times as strong as the boys, while all in-universe evidence points to them being right up there with their fathers in terms of power even before their Room of Spirit and Time training. Even saying that it'd only take Ssj2 Gogeta would imply them being over four times as strong as the boys, so, in truth, it would almost certainly take Ssj3 Gogeta to be able to handle Evil Buu, not just Ssj Gogeta.

In the second he clearly failed, or else he wouldn't have been dead for 7 years, even needing to hold his son's hand to get the kill.

He wasn't the slightest bit wrong about Gohan having the power to do it. The only thing he was wrong about was that he didn't foresee Gohan opting to play around with Cell rather than finishing him off. Given that this was something that was never seen before in Gohan, it makes sense why he wouldn't have anticipated it, but that still doesn't change at all that he was certain that Gohan would, upon being pushed by Cell, release a power that would eclipse Cell's completely.

[Kaboom]

This is why I gave up trying to force any sort of consistency onto Fusion loooong ago.

Goku's not doing math in his head. He's not thinking, "well the Metamorans I saw were about a 1 each, and then they became like a 10 through Fusion. So if Goten and Trunks are already each a 10, and if Boo is like 30, then a Fusion will be..."

No, he's thinking, "Goten and Trunks are already really strong, so a Fusion of them would be super-duper-extra strong! Hopefully strong enough to defeat Majin Boo (because I don't want to)."

We've been freely given predictable and universally-applicable boosts for some things, like most prominently the Super Saiyan forms. But I think there's a good reason we haven't been given any official "formula" for Fusion: because there isn't one. The only constant expectation for Fusion is "much stronger than the sum of the parts."

Does anyone's opinion of Gotenks' strength, before or after his Room of Spirit and Time session, fit that requirement? Then it's fine. Does Super Gogeta being strong enough to beat <form of Boo> but not quite as strong as Vegetto fit that requirement? Then it's fine. Does any successful Fusion of Goku and Vegeta being a lot stronger than Gotenks because of <reason> fit that requirement? Then it's fine.

[Truhan]

There's a few problems with your calculations with that.

1) There's no evidence that Gotenks was capable of anything beyond regular Super Saiya-jin when he was lined up to fight against Fat Buu, so just randomly assuming they had or would have Super Saiya-jin 2 is reaching. Goku basically indicated that once they mastered the dance, that's all the boys would need to be able to beat Buu, so, at best, he could only really be assuming regular Ssj Gotenks.

2) Outside of the single panel shown when he first transformed, all evidence points to Vegetto being Super Saiya-jin, not Ssj2. He's lacking the lightning, his hair doesn't fit right for being a mix of Ssj2 Goku and Vegeta's (but fits if it's just their Ssj transformations), and the Daizenshuu establishes him as just regular Super Saiya-jin.

3) Goku actually indicates a power decrease in Buu when he reverts from South Kaioushin Buu ("Buff" Buu) to Pure Buu, establishing that they've succeeded in weakening him to a form where they could manage something, whereas in both Evil Buu and South Kaioushin Buu's case, they were too powerful for him and Vegeta to take on without fusion of some form.

4) For Super Saiya-jin Gogeta to be that high, it'd require Goku and Vegeta to be over eight times as strong as the boys, while all in-universe evidence points to them being right up there with their fathers in terms of power even before their Room of Spirit and Time training. Even saying that it'd only take Ssj2 Gogeta would imply them being over four times as strong as the boys, so, in truth, it would almost certainly take Ssj3 Gogeta to be able to handle Evil Buu, not just Ssj Gogeta.

1. Ok, so not Goku, but Piccolo once he started training them. It all leads to the same discussion, which I'm not going to be part of, but it makes sense that once SSJ Gotenks came into existence, and Piccolo knew they wouldn't fare well against Fat Buu, SSJ2 was their only option. Surprise, surprise, they unlocked SSJ3!

2. That's the one panel I'm going by, and I usually don't consider the Daizenshuu. I found the formula of multiplying their base levels, or transforming with a multiplier to the power of 2, to be enough. Anything besides that is complicating further, but I guess one must follow the art, although questionable at times.

3. No, it's made explicitly clear that both Kais suppressed Kid Buu, one by turning him into a fat blob, and the other into a clunky figure. Super Buu's strength wasn't decreasing nor was Buff Buu's increasing, but their Ki instead. It goes along with him getting steamy, which is a sign of powering up (as in gathering Ki) instead of down.

4. It just depends on the fusion formula. I normally use (A + B) * 10, because it's the same as multiplying the lowest power by 20, which along with 50 (the SSJ multiplier) makes for an increase of 1000. SSJ Gogeta being above SSJ3 Goku and Super Buu, but below Ultimate Gohan and SSJ Vegetto would fit a universe where Janemba is in between.

[dbzfan7]

This is why I gave up trying to force any sort of consistency onto Fusion loooong ago.

Goku's not doing math in his head. He's not thinking, "well the Metamorans I saw were about a 1 each, and then they became like a 10 through Fusion. So if Goten and Trunks are already each a 10, and if Boo is like 30, then a Fusion will be..."

No, he's thinking, "Goten and Trunks are already really strong, so a Fusion of them would be super-duper-extra strong! Hopefully strong enough to defeat Majin Boo (because I don't want to)."

Well he kinda did math here with fusion. Thinking of how Mr. Satan would effect his power.

Chapter: 503 (DBZ 309), P2.5
Context: Goku contemplates merging with Mister Satan
Goku: “It-it’s no use doing it with Satan…I can’t win if a power of 1,000 becomes 1,001…No, if things go bad, ain’t I gonna get weaker than I am now…!?”

[Darkprince410]

1. Ok, so not Goku, but Piccolo once he started training them. It all leads to the same discussion, which I'm not going to be part of, but it makes sense that once SSJ Gotenks came into existence, and Piccolo knew they wouldn't fare well against Fat Buu, SSJ2 was their only option. Surprise, surprise, they unlocked SSJ3!

2. That's the one panel I'm going by, and I usually don't consider the Daizenshuu. I found the formula of multiplying their base levels, or transforming with a multiplier to the power of 2, to be enough. Anything besides that is complicating further, but I guess one must follow the art, although questionable at times.

3. No, it's made explicitly clear that both Kais suppressed Kid Buu, one by turning him into a fat blob, and the other into a clunky figure. Super Buu's strength wasn't decreasing nor was Buff Buu's increasing, but their Ki instead. It goes along with him getting steamy, which is a sign of powering up (as in gathering Ki) instead of down.

4. It just depends on the fusion formula. I normally use (A + B) * 10, because it's the same as multiplying the lowest power by 20, which along with 50 (the SSJ multiplier) makes for an increase of 1000. Gogeta being above SSJ3 Goku and Super Buu, but below Ultimate Gohan and Vegetto would fit a universe where Janemba is in between.

1) Except Piccolo didn't think they wouldn't fare well against Fat Buu. At no point after their failed attempt to take on Buu in their base form does Piccolo suggest they need to train, and, in turn, when it came to Ssj Gotenks flying off to go and take on Fat Buu, Piccolo's one and only comment was they only had a minute left in the fusion. Not that they weren't strong enough or anything along those lines, but that they only had a minute.

3) Actually no, it's only stated that the Dai Kaioushin weakened Buu, not both. Kibitoshin explicitly states that, prior to absorbing Dai Kaioushin, Buu was pure evil, but after absorbing Dai Kaioushin, he became gentler and more controllable. It is only the Dai Kaioushin that Kibitoshin indicates affected Buu differently from the norm as far as absorptions go. Additionally, a ki increase does mean a strength increase. At no point is there ever an indication of the ki of an individual increasing their ki level without it meaning their strength increased. Thus, Buu's ki increasing from his reversion from Evil Buu to South Kaioushin Buu means his strength increased, and, in turn, the statement made after of Goku exclaiming they succeeded in changing Buu to something they could handle means they weakened him from where he was before Evil Buu or South Kaioushin Buu.

4) Even using your formula, the boys would have to be considerably weaker than the adults for Ssj Gogeta to be above Ssj3 Gotenks. For example:

Let's say Goku and Vegeta are a 10, and Goten and Trunks are an 8. Using your formula, the results would be:

(10 + 10) * 10 = 200 for base Gogeta and (8 + 8 ) * 10 = 160 for base Gotenks

Multiplying 50 for Gogeta and 400 for Gotenks, and you get 10,000 for Ssj Gogeta and 64,000 for Ssj3 Gotenks

The only way for Ssj Gogeta to be above Ssj3 Gotenks, using your formula, would be that Goku and Vegeta were over 8 times as strong as the boys were, so let's change Goku and Vegeta to 65 rather than 10 (which would be just a little over 8x the boys).

(65 + 65) * 10 = 1,300 * 50 = 65,000

So, as you can see, given the known multipliers of the transformations, it would take Goku and Vegeta being over 8 times as strong as Goten and Trunks for Ssj Gogeta to be above Ssj3 Gotenks given your formula for the matter, which just isn't what the events of the story suggest. Both in-universe dialogue and events, as well as the Daizenshuu, put Goten and Trunks right up there with the adults in terms of power even before the boys spent time in the Room of Spirit and Time, and Piccolo's comments regarding Gotenks' power-up from the training indicates a significant increase in power for the boys as well. It's very possible that the boys completely caught up with their fathers / surpassed them by the end of their training in the Room.

[Truhan]

1) Except Piccolo didn't think they wouldn't fare well against Fat Buu. At no point after their failed attempt to take on Buu in their base form does Piccolo suggest they need to train, and, in turn, when it came to Ssj Gotenks flying off to go and take on Fat Buu, Piccolo's one and only comment was they only had a minute left in the fusion. Not that they weren't strong enough or anything along those lines, but that they only had a minute.

3) Actually no, it's only stated that the Dai Kaioushin weakened Buu, not both. Kibitoshin explicitly states that, prior to absorbing Dai Kaioushin, Buu was pure evil, but after absorbing Dai Kaioushin, he became gentler and more controllable. It is only the Dai Kaioushin that Kibitoshin indicates affected Buu differently from the norm as far as absorptions go. Additionally, a ki increase does mean a strength increase. At no point is there ever an indication of the ki of an individual increasing their ki level without it meaning their strength increased. Thus, Buu's ki increasing from his reversion from Evil Buu to South Kaioushin Buu means his strength increased, and, in turn, the statement made after of Goku exclaiming they succeeded in changing Buu to something they could handle means they weakened him from where he was before Evil Buu or South Kaioushin Buu.

4) Even using your formula, the boys would have to be considerably weaker than the adults for Ssj Gogeta to be above Ssj3 Gotenks. For example:

Let's say Goku and Vegeta are a 10, and Goten and Trunks are an 8. Using your formula, the results would be:

(10 + 10) * 10 = 200 for base Gogeta and (8 + 8 ) * 10 = 160 for base Gotenks

Multiplying 50 for Gogeta and 400 for Gotenks, and you get 10,000 for Ssj Gogeta and 64,000 for Ssj3 Gotenks

The only way for Ssj Gogeta to be above Ssj3 Gotenks, using your formula, would be that Goku and Vegeta were over 8 times as strong as the boys were, so let's change Goku and Vegeta to 65 rather than 10 (which would be just a little over 8x the boys).

(65 + 65) * 10 = 1,300 * 50 = 65,000

So, as you can see, given the known multipliers of the transformations, it would take Goku and Vegeta being over 8 times as strong as Goten and Trunks for Ssj Gogeta to be above Ssj3 Gotenks given your formula for the matter, which just isn't what the events of the story suggest. Both in-universe dialogue and events, as well as the Daizenshuu, put Goten and Trunks right up there with the adults in terms of power even before the boys spent time in the Room of Spirit and Time, and Piccolo's comments regarding Gotenks' power-up from the training indicates a significant increase in power for the boys as well. It's very possible that the boys completely caught up with their fathers / surpassed them by the end of their training in the Room.

1. Ok, so Piccolo didn't actually think that they wouldn't stand a chance, but I'll stick to him being on Fat Buu's level. I'm not shooting for pin point accuracy, but productivity instead.

3. You sort of agreed with me with your Ki analysis, so I don't know what that was all about. Perhaps I edited my post as you were writing yours... It doesn't matter, we're in the same line of thought. However, for Goku's statement to be about Kid Buu having powered down from Buff Buu, it would have to be more explicit than allowing a size interpretation, because that's what I believe both he and Vegeta were commenting on. Kid Buu just stopped powering up (or gathering Ki), but it doesn't mean it went away all of a sudden. Besides, both Kais did suppress him, as Kibitoshin would point out when he said that he gained a heart and lowered his power through absorptions. Now, I know it's weird for me to consider Super Buu stronger than Kid Buu, and yet having powered up the moment he reverted, but think of a SSJ2 versus a FPSSJ. The former takes Ki to power his strength, speed and stamina (for example), while the latter filled his resources, despite having lower stats. In essence, Super Buu is a SSJ2 to Kid Buu's FPSSJ.

4. And the boys are much weaker than the adults. I still don't care about the Daizenshuu and its claim that Goten wasn't weaker than Gohan, but the truth is that it took two SSJ against #18, while Goku and the others were confident in taking on her and Piccolo at the tournament, without transforming. If that isn't fishy, then I don't know what else is, but the truth is, I'm not even considering a 50 times gap between Trunks and Vegeta. More like 12.5 times the difference.

[Darkprince410]

3. You sort of agreed with me with your Ki analysis, so I don't know what that was all about. Perhaps I edited my post as you were writing yours... It doesn't matter, we're in the same line of thought. However, for Goku's statement to be about Kid Buu having powered down from Buff Buu, it would have to be more explicit than allowing a size interpretation, because that's what I believe both he and Vegeta were commenting on. Kid Buu just stopped powering up (or gathering Ki), but it doesn't mean it went away all of a sudden. Besides, both Kais did suppress him, as Kibitoshin would point out when he said that he gained a heart and lowered his power through absorptions. Now, I know it's weird for me to consider Super Buu stronger than Kid Buu, and yet having powered up the moment he reverted, but think of a SSJ2 versus a FPSSJ. The former takes Ki to power his strength, speed and stamina (for example), while the latter filled his resources, despite having lower stats. In essence, Super Buu is a SSJ2 to Kid Buu's FPSSJ.

4. And the boys are much weaker than the adults. I still don't care about the Daizenshuu and its claim that Goten wasn't weaker than Gohan, but the truth is that it took two SSJ against #18, while Goku and the others were confident in taking on her and Piccolo at the tournament, without transforming. If that isn't fishy, then I don't know what else is, but the truth is, I'm not even considering a 50 times gap between Trunks and Vegeta. More like 12.5 times the difference.

3) The original dialogue doesn't not explicitly say absorptions though, as there is no pluralization in Japanese. In Herms' translation of it, he has it written as absorption to indicate that the word used can be taken as singular or plural, though if you read the context of Kibitoshin's statement, it's clear that he was only referring to the Dai Kaioushin. He makes no comment about what the South Kaioushin did to Buu other than turning him into the bulky form, but expressly stated that absorbing the Dai Kaioushin gave him a soft and gentle heart, and that he was pure evil beforehand. As such, South Kaioushin didn't affect Buu negatively at all.

Besides, while Vegeta's comment toward Pure Buu was clearly based on Buu's size, Goku isn't one to judge an individual on their appearance if he can sense their ki.

4) Vegeta is the only one that makes any comment about his confidence in winning the Budoukai, which can be taken simply as the usual Vegeta arrogance he's shown time and again. Goku and Gohan showed no real indication of being confident in their chances of winning, so much as just wanting to have a good time.

Besides, in-universe, we have Gohan's statement to himself that the boys will outstrip him soon if he's not careful about it, as well as Vegeta's difficulty in defending himself from Trunks' attacks, despite Vegeta insisting Trunks try to hit him and bribing him to do so. If Vegeta were anywhere near as strong as you were claiming he was in comparison to Trunks, then he would have had no difficulty in evading and blocking Trunks' punches, but the entire ordeal indicates the opposite, that Vegeta was struggling to keep from getting hit.

Spoiler:

If the gap between them were even 2x different, it'd be like Goku when he was initially fighting Nappa, or Goku against Jheese, Recoome, and Batta. Vegeta should be able to effortlessly dodge and block them without the slightest bit of trouble, yet his expression, especially on the first panel of the second page, shows he's having a hard time keeping up. Besides, look at the fact that an enraged and reactive punch from Vegeta at the end only resulted in Trunks getting a bloody nose, which he was able to shrug off soon after like it was no big deal. If Vegeta were as strong as you were suggesting, then a reactive blow from him, spurred on by anger, should have taken Trunks' head off, but it barely made his nose bleed.

Combine that and Gohan's statement regarding the boys, and you have it clear that there wasn't much any difference between the boys and the adults strength wise.

[Truhan]

Ok, so suppose I take all of that in... What happens next? Do we bloat Gohan's Ultimate, Vegetto's SSJ, and Buu's absorptions to the point of no return? There's only so much we can do with the information we're given: not every piece of "evidence" can be taken for granted, and must be dealt with an objective in mind. Mine is to make a text based RPG, so I gotta consider a few rules before losing myself nitpicking Dragon Ball apart. I specifically chose symbolic numbers (Kid Buu matching Goku with a number based on his multiplier, Fat Buu being above the multiplier of a SSJ2, etc.) and made a few formulas to relate them (fusion dance, Buu's absorptions), but I can't tinker with them based on situational feats.

[DanielSSJ]

My Power Scale for the Boo Arc characters with the official Super Saiyan multipliers applied. Keep in mind that these are ball park numbers, not exact comparisons.

1 - base Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta
5 - base Gotenks (pre RoSaT)
8 - base Gotenks (post RoSaT)
50 - SSJ Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta
100 - SSJ2 Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta
200 - base Vegetto
250 - SSJ Gotenks (pre RoSaT), Fat Boo
400 - SSJ3 Goku, Kid Boo, SSJ Gotenks (post RoSaT)
3,000 - Super Boo, Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks
4,500 - Ultimate Gohan
6,000 - Gotenks Boo
7,500 - Gohan Boo
10,000 - SSJ Vegetto

[Darkprince410]

Ok, so suppose I take all of that in... What happens next? Do we bloat Gohan's Ultimate, Vegetto's SSJ, and Buu's absorptions to the point of no return? There's only so much we can do with the information we're given: not every piece of "evidence" can be taken for granted, and must be dealt with an objective in mind. Mine is to make a text based RPG, so I gotta consider a few rules before losing myself nitpicking Dragon Ball apart. I specifically chose symbolic numbers (Kid Buu matching Goku with a number based on his multiplier, Fat Buu being above the multiplier of a SSJ2, etc.) and made a few formulas to relate them (fusion dance, Buu's absorptions), but I can't tinker with them based on situational feats.

The simplest way I see of doing it is to not try and constrain yourself to what seems the most reasonable. Toriyama, by that point in the manga, almost certainly wasn't sitting around trying to crunch numbers about what made sense. Additionally, a statement or feat shouldn't arbitrarily be ignored unless there's valid reason to ignore it, either because the individual isn't the most credible or reliable in such situations (such as Kaioushin's panic over Babi-di's men) or a later statement invalidates it (such as Goku's statement about his inability to beat Fat Buu)

[DBZGTKOSDH]

This is why I gave up trying to force any sort of consistency onto Fusion loooong ago.

Goku's not doing math in his head. He's not thinking, "well the Metamorans I saw were about a 1 each, and then they became like a 10 through Fusion. So if Goten and Trunks are already each a 10, and if Boo is like 30, then a Fusion will be..."

No, he's thinking, "Goten and Trunks are already really strong, so a Fusion of them would be super-duper-extra strong! Hopefully strong enough to defeat Majin Boo (because I don't want to)."

How do you know? He was using numbers when he was thinking about what he & Mr. Satan would make.

[fadeddreams5]

Goku's not even good at math... he's not that clever.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

When Goten and Trunks went full-power, was Goku's "Is that it?" a genuine question or was it more along the lines of him not being too impressed?

Btw, this question has nothing to do with Gotenks. I'm just wondering if there's a way to decipher the way the quote is phrased.