can Janemba be close to Super Buu?

[Truhan]

Janemba is nowhere near the same strength as Super Boo. Goku was outfight frightened at the prospect of taking on Super Boo if he and Vegeta weren't fused together, while SSJ3 Goku was able to hold his against Janemba until Janemba started to use his reality warping powers to gain the advantage.

To be fair, he didn't stand a chance in both scenarios, but Vegeta was close by for fusion to be considered. Otherwise, Goku would have to use SSJ3 as a means to survive, but not for long. I think he used it against Buutenks to escape, but memory does not serve me well.

[Hitiro]

To be fair, he didn't stand a chance in both scenarios, but Vegeta was close by for fusion to be considered. Otherwise, Goku would have to use SSJ3 as a means to survive, but not for long. I think he used it against Buutenks to escape, but memory does not serve me well.

This only happens in the anime and all he manages to do is dodge a couple of attacks. Bootenks might not have even been trying. In the manga Bootenks reverts before he even reaches Goku. But not before Goku turns SSJ3 and shouts out "No!!!!"

[Truhan]

Ah, thanks Hitiro! I knew I was missing something. Either way, that's Buutenks we were talking, while the comparison was being made to Super Buu.

[fadeddreams5]

Janemba is nowhere near the same strength as Super Boo. Goku was outfight frightened at the prospect of taking on Super Boo if he and Vegeta weren't fused together, while SSJ3 Goku was able to hold his against Janemba until Janemba started to use his reality warping powers to gain the advantage.

Goku felt the same against Janemba. He had no choice but to fight him though. I guarantee if Super Buu and SSJ3 Goku ever fought, it'd go exactly how it went when Goku fought Super Janemba: Goku would hold his own until Super Buu's regeneration and abilities give him the advantage.

[Lord Beerus]

Janemba is nowhere near the same strength as Super Boo. Goku was outfight frightened at the prospect of taking on Super Boo if he and Vegeta weren't fused together, while SSJ3 Goku was able to hold his against Janemba until Janemba started to use his reality warping powers to gain the advantage.

Goku felt the same against Janemba. He had no choice but to fight him though. I guarantee if Super Buu and SSJ3 Goku ever fought, it'd go exactly how it went when Goku fought Super Janemba: Goku would hold his own until Super Buu's regeneration and abilities give him the advantage.

But it's already established in the manga how much superior in strength Super Boo to SSJ3 Goku in the manga though. Janemba was a wildcard as far as strength went when Goku took him on for the first time. Goku didn't really know what to expect.

[Kaboom]

The only sure thing (circular "Toei logic" aside) is that Evil Boo and Super Janemba are both stronger than Goku. We never saw Goku fight Evil Boo in the series, so how do we know it'd be any different than against Janemba? Goku tries his best and gets a few good hits in, but then his enemy gets serious and totally spanks him, making it clear that Goku doesn't stand a chance.

Besides, another big difference between Boo and Janemba is that Goku already had a grasp on how strong the former was by witnessing him fight other people, and thus knew he'd lose. He had no such luxury against Janemba, and was left with no choice but to fight him and find out the hard way.

[miguelnuva1]

Goku did fight Super Buu in the anime and he performed better than Gotenks.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

toei already put janemba above hildegarn whom is>>>>super boo. putting it bluntly, theres no discussion to be had outside of fans that are in denial.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

toei already put janemba above hildegarn whom is>>>>super boo. putting it bluntly, theres no discussion to be had outside of fans that are in denial.

Another source (Takao Koyama) says the opposite. The site with Janemba > Hirudegarn was taken down anyway.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

toei already put janemba above hildegarn whom is>>>>super boo. putting it bluntly, theres no discussion to be had outside of fans that are in denial.

Another source (Takao Koyama) says the opposite. The site with Janemba > Hirudegarn was taken down anyway.

no, he didnt. we have a direct statement from the company that owns the characters, and nothing from another equally valid source that directly contradicts it. a biased interpretation doesnt constitute as valid evidence.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

no, he didnt.

In handling the scripts for the films, what I always worried about each time was the problem of what to do about the opponent Goku fights against. That’s because, at the very least, they had to be stronger than [the ones from] the previous movie.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/07/07/ta ... e-of-gods/

we have a direct statement from the company that owns the characters, and nothing from another equally valid source that directly contradicts it.

Source?

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

no, he didnt.

In handling the scripts for the films, what I always worried about each time was the problem of what to do about the opponent Goku fights against. That’s because, at the very least, they had to be stronger than [the ones from] the previous movie.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/07/07/ta ... e-of-gods/

we have a direct statement from the company that owns the characters, and nothing from another equally valid source that directly contradicts it.

Source?

all you are showing me is what the writer wanted to happen, not what actually happened. unfortunately, tokao koyama wasnt the sole authority on how strong the characters are. when it was all said and done, janemba ended up stronger than hildegarn by the own admission of the company that owns the characters. thats something that you simply have to deal with. lying isnt helping your case here and I'm not getting into an extended discussion over something so obvious.

[Kaboom]

Goku did fight Super Buu in the anime and he performed better than Gotenks.

Like I said, "circular Toei logic aside." Plus as far as I remember, even in the anime, he never fought regular Evil Boo. Just Gotenks-Boo while Gohan searched for the dropped Potara, and Gohan-Boo alongside Vegeta before they merged.

supersaiyangodgogeta: While I'm sure you could be a little more polite in how you say it, I do honestly agree. Takao Koyama comment doesn't establish any hard rule, it just points out a trend that, in the same blog, he even admits difficulty in keeping to. Besides, he broke that trend himself, unless one wants to claim that Bio-Broli in Movie 11 was stronger than his Legendary Super Saiyan progenitor in Movie 10. Goten and Trunks did pretty darn well against Bio-Broli when they worked together, but regular Super Saiyan Broli kicked their butts in the previous film.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Besides, he broke that trend himself, unless one wants to claim that Bio-Broli in Movie 11 was stronger than his Legendary Super Saiyan progenitor in Movie 10. Goten and Trunks did pretty darn well against Bio-Broli when they worked together, but regular Super Saiyan Broli kicked their butts in the previous film.

Not necessarily. Goku didn't really "fight" Bio Broly in M11.

[miguelnuva1]

Goku did fight Super Buu in the anime and he performed better than Gotenks.

Like I said, "circular Toei logic aside." Plus as far as I remember, even in the anime, he never fought regular Evil Boo. Just Gotenks-Boo while Gohan searched for the dropped Potara, and Gohan-Boo alongside Vegeta before they merged.

It was inside Buu while he was protecting Vegeta.

[Son Edo]

Going by the Anime and movies.

Boo(Gohan absorbed) > Boo(Gotenks absorbed) > Janemba > Goku > Hildegarn > Gotenks(M13) > Gohan(M13) > Boo

[RandomGuy96]

To be fair, he didn't stand a chance in both scenarios, but Vegeta was close by for fusion to be considered. Otherwise, Goku would have to use SSJ3 as a means to survive, but not for long. I think he used it against Buutenks to escape, but memory does not serve me well.

This only happens in the anime and all he manages to do is dodge a couple of attacks. Bootenks might not have even been trying. In the manga Bootenks reverts before he even reaches Goku. But not before Goku turns SSJ3 and shouts out "No!!!!"

It's confirmed Buu isn't even trying. He's smiling the whole time and receives literally no damage from any of Goku's attacks. In fact, at one point, he considers Goku so beneath his notice that he turns to fire a blast Gohan while standing right in front of Goku. Goku uses this opportunity to catch Buu completely off guard and hit him with dozens of attacks. Note that, not only is he shooting Buu dozens of times, he's doing it while Buu isn't prepared, which as we've repeatedly seen massively increases the effectiveness of attacks (the newest movie being the most recent example).

It does absolutely nothing.

Going by the Anime and movies.

Boo(Gohan absorbed) > Boo(Gotenks absorbed) > Janemba > Goku > Hildegarn > Gotenks(M13) > Gohan(M13) > Boo

I don't think so. Goku still admits that Super Buu is stronger than him in the anime, and he doesn't defeat Hildegarn by being strong, but by using a super haxxed technique (he could kill Super 17 with it while in base!). Also, the writer of the movies outright stated that the newest villain Goku fights will always be superior to the previous villain, so Hildegarn > Janemba. The only oddity here is Gotenks overwhelming 1st form Hildegarn while Gohan couldn't.

[RandomGuy96]

Like I said, "circular Toei logic aside." Plus as far as I remember, even in the anime, he never fought regular Evil Boo. Just Gotenks-Boo while Gohan searched for the dropped Potara, and Gohan-Boo alongside Vegeta before they merged.

Goku (apparently in SS2, judging by the sparks when they power up) and Vegeta fought Evil Boo inside his body. He didn't exactly do better than Gotenks though. While he and Vegeta were able to blow Buu apart with a Toei Team Attack [TM], they were otherwise helpless. When Goku and Vegeta rushed him individually, he easily dodged them and smacked them down. When they attacked together, they landed a couple hits, but he still was able to knock them back. When they attacked at the exact same time, a la movie 6, they knocked him away and blew him apart with a combined blast (he regenerated).

When Vegeta got knocked out, and it was just SS2 Goku vs Buu, Buu easily defeated him while clearly not using any effort at all. He just chases Goku around and laughs while occasionally letting himself get blown up by weak attacks only to regenerate seconds later. He tosses Goku around a few times and lands one solid hit on him, and that's apparently enough for Goku to concede. He was about to kill Goku with a regular blast before Vegeta started yanking on Mr. Buu's pod. Honestly, both SS2 Vegeta and SS2 Goku did much better against Pure Buu in the anime individually than they did against Super Buu together.

supersaiyangodgogeta: While I'm sure you could be a little more polite in how you say it, I do honestly agree. Takao Koyama comment doesn't establish any hard rule, it just points out a trend that, in the same blog, he even admits difficulty in keeping to. Besides, he broke that trend himself, unless one wants to claim that Bio-Broli in Movie 11 was stronger than his Legendary Super Saiyan progenitor in Movie 10. Goten and Trunks did pretty darn well against Bio-Broli when they worked together, but regular Super Saiyan Broli kicked their butts in the previous film.

Did you read the quote? He was specifically talking about enemies that Goku fought. Goku didn't fight Bio-Broly (or Bojack). He did fight Hildegarn and Janemba. Hildegarn is very clearly stronger than Janemba.

toei already put janemba above hildegarn whom is>>>>super boo. putting it bluntly, theres no discussion to be had outside of fans that are in denial.

Another source (Takao Koyama) says the opposite. The site with Janemba > Hirudegarn was taken down anyway.

Basically, it's the writer of the movies vs some web design intern who wrote a bit of text that doesn't exist now. Along with Hildegarn's clearly superior feats, I don't really see why this is debate.

[miguelnuva1]

Like I said, "circular Toei logic aside." Plus as far as I remember, even in the anime, he never fought regular Evil Boo. Just Gotenks-Boo while Gohan searched for the dropped Potara, and Gohan-Boo alongside Vegeta before they merged.

Goku (apparently in SS2, judging by the sparks when they power up) and Vegeta fought Evil Boo inside his body. He didn't exactly do better than Gotenks though. While he and Vegeta were able to blow Buu apart with a Toei Team Attack [TM], they were otherwise helpless. When Goku and Vegeta rushed him individually, he easily dodged them and smacked them down. When they attacked together, they landed a couple hits, but he still was able to knock them back. When they attacked at the exact same time, a la movie 6, they knocked him away and blew him apart with a combined blast (he regenerated).

When Vegeta got knocked out, and it was just SS2 Goku vs Buu, Buu easily defeated him while clearly not using any effort at all. He just chases Goku around and laughs while occasionally letting himself get blown up by weak attacks only to regenerate seconds later. He tosses Goku around a few times and lands one solid hit on him, and that's apparently enough for Goku to concede. He was about to kill Goku with a regular blast before Vegeta started yanking on Mr. Buu's pod. Honestly, both SS2 Vegeta and SS2 Goku did much better against Pure Buu in the anime individually than they did against Super Buu together.

They were clear as day SSJ1 from the fight with Super Buu till the time Goku fights Kid Buu.

[Kamiccolo9]

Like I said, "circular Toei logic aside." Plus as far as I remember, even in the anime, he never fought regular Evil Boo. Just Gotenks-Boo while Gohan searched for the dropped Potara, and Gohan-Boo alongside Vegeta before they merged.

Goku (apparently in SS2, judging by the sparks when they power up) and Vegeta fought Evil Boo inside his body. He didn't exactly do better than Gotenks though. While he and Vegeta were able to blow Buu apart with a Toei Team Attack [TM], they were otherwise helpless. When Goku and Vegeta rushed him individually, he easily dodged them and smacked them down. When they attacked together, they landed a couple hits, but he still was able to knock them back. When they attacked at the exact same time, a la movie 6, they knocked him away and blew him apart with a combined blast (he regenerated).

When Vegeta got knocked out, and it was just SS2 Goku vs Buu, Buu easily defeated him while clearly not using any effort at all. He just chases Goku around and laughs while occasionally letting himself get blown up by weak attacks only to regenerate seconds later. He tosses Goku around a few times and lands one solid hit on him, and that's apparently enough for Goku to concede. He was about to kill Goku with a regular blast before Vegeta started yanking on Mr. Buu's pod. Honestly, both SS2 Vegeta and SS2 Goku did much better against Pure Buu in the anime individually than they did against Super Buu together.

They were clear as day SSJ1 from the fight with Super Buu till the time Goku fights Kid Buu.

You know, he backed up his point with evidence. That makes him more credible than you going "nuh-uh." They've got the sparks there. That's a SSJ2 trait.