Why did Toriyama never do anything with Mercenary Tao again?

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Re: Why did Toriyama never do anything with Mercenary Tao ag

Post by Araki » Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:11 am

Gyt Kaliba wrote:The difference between Tao (and Crane) and other characters though is that they explicitely state that they're going to come back again one day and try to get revenge. And then, as far as we can tell, they never do.
That's why i said his first defeat, when he was supposed to be dead, was enough. We didn't really need his comeback only to be defeated again and leaving promising revenge. That kind of makes him and Crane look like Pilaf's gang or Team Rocket.

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Re: Why did Toriyama never do anything with Mercenary Tao ag

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:53 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:I dunno. While I guess it would be cool for Tao to have shown up again at some point, I wouldn't want him appearing alongside Gero. To be frank, Tao would overshadow him, due to his prior relationship with Goku, and this part of the arc was about establishing Gero. Including Tao would have been counterproductive to that, especially since Gero's retroactive connection to Goku was tenuous at best. 19 worked well for the part, due to not really having a personality that would overshadow the (at the time) main villain, but also successfully establishing the Androids as a threat. Including Tao would have added even more necessary exposition to an already over complicated, if not particularly complex, section of the story.

In summation, Tao's filler was great. I don't really want him being part of the main story again, though. At least not at that point, anyway.
Wasn't Gero shown up by 17, 18, and Cell anyway?
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Re: Why did Toriyama never do anything with Mercenary Tao ag

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:57 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:I dunno. While I guess it would be cool for Tao to have shown up again at some point, I wouldn't want him appearing alongside Gero. To be frank, Tao would overshadow him, due to his prior relationship with Goku, and this part of the arc was about establishing Gero. Including Tao would have been counterproductive to that, especially since Gero's retroactive connection to Goku was tenuous at best. 19 worked well for the part, due to not really having a personality that would overshadow the (at the time) main villain, but also successfully establishing the Androids as a threat. Including Tao would have added even more necessary exposition to an already over complicated, if not particularly complex, section of the story.

In summation, Tao's filler was great. I don't really want him being part of the main story again, though. At least not at that point, anyway.
Wasn't Gero shown up by 17, 18, and Cell anyway?
Yeah, but not at his introduction. Which is why I said "this part of the arc."
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Re: Why did Toriyama never do anything with Mercenary Tao ag

Post by precita » Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:03 am

I think a good time for Tao to show up again was during one of the Saiyan saga fillers. Surprised TOEI didn't bring him back then instead of waiting till the Cell saga, especially when they brought Launch back for a couple episodes.

Could have made an interest filler to see Tao confront Tien again before he went up to train at Kami's lookout.

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Re: Why did Toriyama never do anything with Mercenary Tao ag

Post by LuckyCat » Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:58 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:I dunno. While I guess it would be cool for Tao to have shown up again at some point, I wouldn't want him appearing alongside Gero. To be frank, Tao would overshadow him, due to his prior relationship with Goku, and this part of the arc was about establishing Gero.
I agree, Tao isn't part of the RRA, he just happened to have a gig for them. I like him better being part of the Crane School and Tenshinhan's past as well as Goku's enemy.

That said, I would like to see Tao again as a threat. Maybe he could exist in the same way that Pilaf exists; to help a Bigger Bad.

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Re: Why did Toriyama never do anything with Mercenary Tao ag

Post by precita » Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:38 pm

I wonder, would Tao have been revived when Kid Buu blew up the Earth?

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Re: Why did Toriyama never do anything with Mercenary Tao ag

Post by Hellspawn28 » Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:01 pm

I doubt he did since he was a cold blooded murder and was consider to be too evil to be wish back. Vegeta got wished back since he blew himself up to try to beat Buu and before his explosion, it seem like that he really did care for his wife and son. Not to mention Vegeta also help Goku and the others against Freeza, the cyborgs and Cell. He still did good things before the Buu saga.
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Re: Why did Toriyama never do anything with Mercenary Tao ag

Post by FoolsGil » Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:44 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:I doubt he did since he was a cold blooded murder and was consider to be too evil to be wish back. Vegeta got wished back since he blew himself up to try to beat Buu and before his explosion, it seem like that he really did care for his wife and son. Not to mention Vegeta also help Goku and the others against Freeza, the cyborgs and Cell. He still did good things before the Buu saga.
...He didn't so much as help, more like A) look out for #1 or B) Help fix the mistakes that he created. But that's another topic

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Re: Why did Toriyama never do anything with Mercenary Tao ag

Post by Kunzait_83 » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:05 pm

Gyt Kaliba wrote:The difference between Tao (and Crane) and other characters though is that they explicitely state that they're going to come back again one day and try to get revenge. And then, as far as we can tell, they never do.
That's not at all how they end off in their last manga appearance (23rd Budokai). Tenshinhan soundly defeats Tao then tells Tsurusennin as he's gathering up the crumpled heap that is currently his little brother that the two of them better not ever show their faces around Tesnshinhan or any of the other Z crew ever again. Tsurusennin angrily, bitterly agrees, saying that he never wants to see Ten or the others again either, and flies off with the unconscious Tao. And thus they depart the manga forevermore (with only Tao Pai Pai showing up again a couple more times way, way later on in some Cell Saga anime filler).

There's no real "open ending" there, nor is there any promise of revenge on Tsuru's part.

Obviously that doesn't mean that Toriyama couldn't have easily brought them back again later on anyhow if he wanted to (I certainly wouldn't have minded, Tao Pai Pai and Tsurusennin are a fun duo), but he also didn't really leave anything with them dangling either, certainly not any unfulfilled promise that they'll come back for revenge one day. Tsuru's general attitude upon his final exit seems to more or less indicate "Well FUCK these guys, bunch of 'roided up freaks! Who needs this grief?" rather than "I'll get them all SOMEHOW SOMEDAY goddammit! They haven't seen the last of us!"

I mean... Tenshinhan thoroughly humiliated Tao Pai Pai in the ring in front of a crowd of hundreds, possibly thousands of onlookers. There's one of two extreme emotional reactions Tsurusennin could've taken to a defeat that crushing: further stubborn grudge carrying, or "know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em". And he without question, in both the manga and anime, opts for the latter it seems.
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Re: Why did Toriyama never do anything with Mercenary Tao ag

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:23 pm

Are you absolutely certain on that? I'm not asking because I doubt you really, mind you, just wanting to be sure. My own memory is pretty terrible, but I could have sworn there was dialogue suggesting they (or at least Crane, on Tao's behalf) wanted to come back for revenge some day, even in the manga. Is it something that Viz perhaps changed, or am I only pulling it from memory of the English dub of the scene in the anime perhaps?
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Re: Why did Toriyama never do anything with Mercenary Tao ag

Post by Kunzait_83 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:15 am

I'm absolutely certain: I just rewatched a little bit of the 23rd Budokai stuff in the anime not too long ago, and Tsurusennin's last line to Ten as he's flying off is literally to the effect of "You lousy ingrate! I never want to see YOU again either!"

I also went and double checked the two manga translations I currently have available to me: one's the official Viz one obviously and the other is a shall we say... "alternate translation" of sorts done by a certain individual whose identity I'm not really at liberty to reveal (last I checked with them anyway), but whose translation chops and level of DB knowledge I can more than easily 1000% vouch for.

According to the Viz version, they seem to have given Tsurusennin the line "Your death will be painful I tell you!"

According to the other person's translation, the line is pretty much identical to the anime subs (which we already know are plenty beyond accurate themselves): "You lousy ingrate! I never want to see YOU again either!"

Between sharing the exact same line as the anime subs and how much I know this person's translation ability and obsessive dedication to DB minutia (far and away exceeding mine by a tremendous degree) as well as Viz, while still being FAR more accurate than the anime dub, still kinda making weird shit up every now and again... I'm gonna go ahead and say with confidence that Viz in all likelihood just went and altered the line for whatever pointless reason.

As far as the dub goes... who the fuck knows (or cares), I never watch it, but knowing FUNi's manner of arbitrarily just doing their own thing with the scripting like 85% of the time just for the shit of it, I wouldn't at all doubt it or put it past them if they went a similar route as Viz and gave Tsuru some bullshit line about coming back for revenge someday.

But yeah, Tsurusennin never vows or swears revenge of any kind in two of the most accurate and reliable English translations of the anime and manga that I know of: he kind of just gets pissy with Ten and more or less says the rough equivalent of "Well fuck you too then!" and leaves. The way its played, you definitely get the general sense that Tsuru knows that no matter what he or Tao Pai Pai do, they're pretty much screwed against these guys.

Again, none of this in any way means I'm personally opposed to the idea of Toriyama bringing one or both of the Crane Bros. back at some point later on in the manga, I love the hell outta those two (particularly Tao who I'd go so far as to call one of the series best ever villains), I'm just noting that he didn't really leave them off on an open-ended thread that went forever unfulfilled.
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Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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