Japanese fan reaction to the Yamamoto scandal?

[Kamiccolo9]

I guess not. I'm just more morally grey than you. It's a really big universe out there. To each his own. For the record btw just in case it seemingly goes over your head some more, I said all of that again out of which that very particular circumstance happened. As I said first and foremost I wish there had been no plagiarism to start with.

You can't claim to be "morally grey" when your entire rationale is "because I enjoyed it." That's the very definition of immorality. It's not "going over my head;" I see exactly what you are saying.

I think its much more simple in some ways than some may make it out to be. Its of course certainly possible to look at a situation from multiple angles with conflicting feelings. For example for me personally and likely many others i would imagine if you asked them from an outside perspective was it morally right for him to do it? No. From a legal stance should they have busted him immediately upon proof? Yes. As a fan of the show however is it seriously that hard to wish for a more proper ending to this situation? Of course its not hard. It sucks shit got screwed up. And from that perspective and that one alone with moral/legal integrity aside though still valid as they are it is perfectly reasonable and i could only imagine logical to want things to go best for the sake of the show. On a side note, not that this likely could really have much if any application in his defense.... I mean there is "Original Thought Theory". It would apply to musical notes as well id imagine. But again thats just intentionally throwing dude a bone. However possible its unlikely of course he just so happened to have created said tracks "on his own" without ever having heard it elsewhere.

If something is legally wrong, and is morally wrong, and you are basing your arguments about what you want, then I'd be more concerned about you. If you place your own wants above what is morally and legally wrong, then you have a serious problem.

To me you cant steal music, cause you cant really own music. Music is there to enjoy and thats it.

Educate yourself.

So just because someone comes up with a piece of music he automatically owns it?

If he goes through the process to ensure so, or others do so on his behalf, yes. Duh.

If you go by law that may be true. But who says that the laws of a random country are fair? "property" this days goes way to far. People think they can own everything.

Also if music is really a property isnt everyone these days a thief then? I mean who really buys every song they listen too?

There are international copyright laws.

And think of it this way; if you wrote a song, and somebody stole it, and made millions off of it, with you receiving no compensation or recognition, would you still feel that "it belongs to everyone?"

[fadeddreams5]

I completely agree with Toei's action of replacing Yamamoto's music the minute they found out it was plagiarized. You can't just wait something like that out.

That said, I wish nobody figured out anything about Yamamoto's soundtrack until after Kai finished. =P

[LuckyCat]

I want to throw this out here: He might still be innocent. It seems too common that fans are ready to sentence this guy to life in prison without any hearing. Yes, Toei fired the guy, but that could have been just a precaution.

Now I don't want to endorse plagiarism. It's definitely wrong. But it's very often that composers borrow from others when mixing. Is Yamamoto's music a legitimate remix, distinct enough from other songs? I can't answer that. But I think without giving the man his day, no one should jump to conclusions.

[TheGreatness25]

I find it scary that it took Toei so long to find out in the first place. Was there really no due diligence from their legal department?

[Kamiccolo9]

I want to throw this out here: He might still be innocent. It seems too common that fans are ready to sentence this guy to life in prison without any hearing. Yes, Toei fired the guy, but that could have been just a precaution.

Now I don't want to endorse plagiarism. It's definitely wrong. But it's very often that composers borrow from others when mixing. Is Yamamoto's music a legitimate remix, distinct enough from other songs? I can't answer that. But I think without giving the man his day, no one should jump to conclusions.

One song is coincidence. Two songs are unfortunate. Three is still...debatable.

There are well over a dozen tracks involved here. There is absolutely no feasible way for him to be "innocent."

[Ajay]

Considering the plethora of clear-cut examples dating back to his earliest involvement in Dragon Ball, yeah, I'm pretty sure he's guilty as sin. If there were even a shred of legitimacy to his compositions, all relevant artists would have been credited from the get-go. It's a clear case of plagiarism. He was caught, and rightly fired. I don't think there's any wriggle room in this area.

[coola]

I'm honestly surprised, that both Yamamoto and Toei weren't sued by New Line Cinema (Mortal Kombat Movie) or Sony (Avatar) here were lots of sources he borrowed tracks from, if only these two companies go to court, they would be in huge trouble.

[TheGreatness25]

I know certainly that Yamamoto didn't steal the MK theme. That would have been so much more awesome lol

[VegettoEX]

I know certainly that Yamamoto didn't steal the MK theme. That would have been so much more awesome lol

It's not the main (movie) theme that's being referenced. I think people point to the "Goro vs. Art" track. I don't entirely buy the connection there, though.

[TheGreatness25]

lol I was saying, if Techno Syndrome was put into Kai, that thing would be bumping lol

[kei17]

I suggest not blindly believing what I say here because I think I'm pretty biased on this matter in a negative way, but from what I know, it was, and still is a big deal, in both the negative and positive ways. A lot of the Japanese fans straight congratulated his music being erased from Kai because they simply HATED it. Wholeheartedly. Their love for Kikuchi's music is far stronger than you can fathom. Over 90% of the posts about the Yamamoto score on various web forums and SNSs were filled with negative words. When they switched to the Kikuchi score, I saw thousands of people saying "why they just didn't do that from the beginning." (And they're still bashing the Sumitomo score in Super today, FYI.) On the other hand, their reactions are full of lament when it comes to his video game music, like "my childhood got ruined," "I'm sad because I truly loved his music for video games at least."

Yamamoto's folly is still often mentioned when they talk about music related to Dragon Ball. I can't say it's not a big deal.

[dae428]

I'm actually quite surprised that his work in Kai was hated to that extent. While I never liked it as much as Kikuchi's music, I still enjoyed it. It kind of makes me wonder how Sumitomo's score for Super is generally recognized by the fan community in Japan given the hate it seems to have here in Kanzenshuu.

[fadeddreams5]

Isn't that hatred the same exhibited by American fans first exposed to Faulconer when they heard Yamamoto's track in Kai? >.>

[coola]

I know certainly that Yamamoto didn't steal the MK theme. That would have been so much more awesome lol

It's not the main (movie) theme that's being referenced. I think people point to the "Goro vs. Art" track. I don't entirely buy the connection there, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss5qUjbHwsY Goro vs Art
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TerK-VPLvuc Kai
I would say they are pretty similar

[Cipher]

I'm actually quite surprised that his work in Kai was hated to that extent. While I never liked it as much as Kikuchi's music, I still enjoyed it. It kind of makes me wonder how Sumitomo's score for Super is generally recognized by the fan community in Japan given the hate it seems to have here in Kanzenshuu.

I can see it, as someone who really struggles to get through an episode with the Yamamoto score (I enjoy Sumitomo quite a bit more). It was as generic and obvious as they come.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I suggest not blindly believing what I say here because I think I'm pretty biased on this matter in a negative way, but from what I know, it was, and still is a big deal, in both the negative and positive ways. A lot of the Japanese fans straight congratulated his music being erased from Kai because they simply HATED it. Wholeheartedly. Their love for Kikuchi's music is far stronger than you can fathom. Over 90% of the posts about the Yamamoto score on various web forums and SNSs were filled with negative words. When they switched to the Kikuchi score, I saw thousands of people saying "why they just didn't do that from the beginning." (And they're still bashing the Sumitomo score in Super today, FYI.) On the other hand, their reactions are full of lament when it comes to his video game music, like "my childhood got ruined," "I'm sad because I truly loved his music for video games at least."

Yamamoto's folly is still often mentioned when they talk about music related to Dragon Ball. I can't say it's not a big deal.

That's interesting...I'm both surprised and not surprised, in some ways. On the one hand, I'm not surprised to hear that they hate it, because I've gathered that most Japanese fans just aren't really fond of Kai at all. On the other hand, considering how much they hate Kai, I'm surprised they care enough for it to be considered a big deal. Before reading this post of Kei17's, my gut reaction was, "I don't think they care, one way or another."

[ShaneisMC]

I guess not. I'm just more morally grey than you. It's a really big universe out there. To each his own. For the record btw just in case it seemingly goes over your head some more, I said all of that again out of which that very particular circumstance happened. As I said first and foremost I wish there had been no plagiarism to start with.

You can't claim to be "morally grey" when your entire rationale is "because I enjoyed it." That's the very definition of immorality. It's not "going over my head;" I see exactly what you are saying.

I think its much more simple in some ways than some may make it out to be. Its of course certainly possible to look at a situation from multiple angles with conflicting feelings. For example for me personally and likely many others i would imagine if you asked them from an outside perspective was it morally right for him to do it? No. From a legal stance should they have busted him immediately upon proof? Yes. As a fan of the show however is it seriously that hard to wish for a more proper ending to this situation? Of course its not hard. It sucks shit got screwed up. And from that perspective and that one alone with moral/legal integrity aside though still valid as they are it is perfectly reasonable and i could only imagine logical to want things to go best for the sake of the show. On a side note, not that this likely could really have much if any application in his defense.... I mean there is "Original Thought Theory". It would apply to musical notes as well id imagine. But again thats just intentionally throwing dude a bone. However possible its unlikely of course he just so happened to have created said tracks "on his own" without ever having heard it elsewhere.

If something is legally wrong, and is morally wrong, and you are basing your arguments about what you want, then I'd be more concerned about you. If you place your own wants above what is morally and legally wrong, then you have a serious problem.

To me you cant steal music, cause you cant really own music. Music is there to enjoy and thats it.

Educate yourself.

So just because someone comes up with a piece of music he automatically owns it?

If he goes through the process to ensure so, or others do so on his behalf, yes. Duh.

If you go by law that may be true. But who says that the laws of a random country are fair? "property" this days goes way to far. People think they can own everything.

Also if music is really a property isnt everyone these days a thief then? I mean who really buys every song they listen too?

There are international copyright laws.

And think of it this way; if you wrote a song, and somebody stole it, and made millions off of it, with you receiving no compensation or recognition, would you still feel that "it belongs to everyone?"

Exactly just how one dimensional of a character are you? Are you seriously so incapable of having more than one set of feelings about an issue? I dont want to get too deep about things. It'll likely just lead too off topic and potentially breaking some rule or another. But as far as examples go, say someone raped or seriously hurt your mom or just someone really close to you. Legally speaking should they be punished? Duh. Should they be officially executed? They didnt take a life so i dont see how it would be fair to take theirs. But from a personal standpoint as a person deeply affected by whats happened most people if they were to walk in on that happening would want to shoot that guy on the spot. Why? Because its natural to have personal feelings that conflict with what may be the "right" thing in the long run. And simply having those feelings is perfectly ok. We're only human.

[dbz2k]

I guess not. I'm just more morally grey than you. It's a really big universe out there. To each his own. For the record btw just in case it seemingly goes over your head some more, I said all of that again out of which that very particular circumstance happened. As I said first and foremost I wish there had been no plagiarism to start with.

You can't claim to be "morally grey" when your entire rationale is "because I enjoyed it." That's the very definition of immorality. It's not "going over my head;" I see exactly what you are saying.

I think its much more simple in some ways than some may make it out to be. Its of course certainly possible to look at a situation from multiple angles with conflicting feelings. For example for me personally and likely many others i would imagine if you asked them from an outside perspective was it morally right for him to do it? No. From a legal stance should they have busted him immediately upon proof? Yes. As a fan of the show however is it seriously that hard to wish for a more proper ending to this situation? Of course its not hard. It sucks shit got screwed up. And from that perspective and that one alone with moral/legal integrity aside though still valid as they are it is perfectly reasonable and i could only imagine logical to want things to go best for the sake of the show. On a side note, not that this likely could really have much if any application in his defense.... I mean there is "Original Thought Theory". It would apply to musical notes as well id imagine. But again thats just intentionally throwing dude a bone. However possible its unlikely of course he just so happened to have created said tracks "on his own" without ever having heard it elsewhere.

If something is legally wrong, and is morally wrong, and you are basing your arguments about what you want, then I'd be more concerned about you. If you place your own wants above what is morally and legally wrong, then you have a serious problem.

To me you cant steal music, cause you cant really own music. Music is there to enjoy and thats it.

Educate yourself.

So just because someone comes up with a piece of music he automatically owns it?

If he goes through the process to ensure so, or others do so on his behalf, yes. Duh.

If you go by law that may be true. But who says that the laws of a random country are fair? "property" this days goes way to far. People think they can own everything.

Also if music is really a property isnt everyone these days a thief then? I mean who really buys every song they listen too?

There are international copyright laws.

And think of it this way; if you wrote a song, and somebody stole it, and made millions off of it, with you receiving no compensation or recognition, would you still feel that "it belongs to everyone?"

Do you think academic research should be copyrighted or free for all to use? All I am saying copyright can be broken system for some stuff.

[Lord Beerus]

I was shocked when I found about the Yamamoto scandal and then eventually learning the scale of the plagiarism was just disillusioning and depressing. I don't care how good the soundtrack for Kai 1.0 was, when you have steal from other artists to make your own music good that destroys any integrity you have as an musician and for the music you produced.

[Kamiccolo9]

Do you think academic research should be copyrighted or free for all to use? All I am saying copyright can be broken system for some stuff.

You don't seem to realize the way academic research works. Unlike music, research is not a product. If it is published, then it is fair game for anyone to use.

HOWEVER, and this is the important part, if you attempt to pass off someone else's research as your own, then you are guilty of plagiarism. That's why numerous forms of citation exist. Any time you are reading an academic work, and you see footnotes, or a bibliography, that is a note that you have utilized someone else's work, and are giving them credit for it.

Yamamoto didn't do this. He took other people's work, arranged it, and presented it as his own without giving due credit to the original creator. That is plagiarism.

As for the guy who equated the emotional reactions of being irritated at the exclusion of a stolen soundtrack with the avenging of the hypothetical rape of my mother, congratulations. You proved my point for me. Way to go.