After this interview, would you like other studio for Super?

[JulieYBM]

Heard about staff love for Precure, didnt know about OPM, it is strange they cant find staff that would love working for Super, current Precure series look little worse than Princess, but still look miles better than some episodes of Super

Mahoutsukai PreCure doesn't have Fujii Shingo working on the series regularly anymore, although he only ever worked on action cuts. Even then I think there is definitely an issue of the production being a bit behind schedule in comparison to where Go! Princess PreCure was.

And sorry about that director mistake.

My thanks.

You know, that's a lot of holier than thou bullshit in one paragraph. First of all, the screenshots are absolutely indicative of a piss poor art direction and mediocre animation for whicj Super has become infamous for. "Easily picked apart attacks"..hardly. Play virtually any fight from Z and Super side by side.

Secondly, we don't have to know the ins and outs of the animation industry to criticize the way supers been handled and its woefully mediocre standard.

I understand its a preproduction thing, but then sau so instead of pretending fans are ungrateful and should gleefully eat up this garbage just because its dragonball.

You must have knowledge of what you wish to discuss to discuss half-way decently and interestingly about the subject you wish to discuss. That's the cardinal rule of discussion: have knowledge and be open to more of it.

When your argument is "this single one thing represent the entirety of the work of this many hundreds of different things!" it is not a proper argument.

[Khin]

How many threads we already have like this?!
And no. I don't want anyone but Toei for this series. They just need to put their shit together.

Agreed.This ''i want Madhouse or whatever studio for DBS'' is really getting annoying.Some episodes in Super proved they can make good shit if they keep their shit together.

[Hellspawn28]

I think fans would still dislike the retellings of BOG and ROF if someone else animated them. Better animation can't save you from having a bad story.

[Blade]

The problems with Dragonball Super are multifaceted and I take a fairly low view of those problems being downplayed so half-heatedly by the people behind the production. Let's be honest - the criticisms of leveled at the show have been directed at almost everything from the writing (or lack of), the score, voice acting performances, and, of course, the animation.

I don't subscribe to the view that you have to know the animation industry inside-out before you're allowed to take a disliking the aesthetic appearance of an anime - the same way that I don't think you need to be a screenwriter to dislike the story.

The show was scrambled into production on a wing and a prayer and has been a rush-job since the very beginning. It's clear that Toei have been riding off the seat of their pants to even produce episodes - which, unfortunately, isn't a production arrangement which translates as well to a weekly-anime broadcast as it did for Toriyama when he authored the Manga.

I'm of the belief that it's inescapable that, if judged purely as a product, in comparison to rival products currently on the market, Dragonball Super is substandard. Furthermore, if judged as a artistic venture, it is also a highly flawed work.

It is not, in my opinion, correct to respond to either one of those criticisms with the answer 'Yes, but (Insert mitigating circumstance here).'

Of course, there are reasons as to why there are problems with Dragonball Super, but they should not be used interchangeably as excuses by anybody - especially not by those in charge of production, whose own failures have at least exacerbated the problems by failing to plan around existing industry conditions and restraints.

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball Super is a pretty poorly tossed together piece of garbage. That's not in question, nor is it the problem. It's a symptom of a greater problem, just like the terrible attempts at criticism are also a symptom of a greater problem, a general lack of knowledge and employing of forethought and common sense. It's fine and dandy to say "I don't like this" but it is not fine and dandy to toss around lousy criticism like "this is lazy", "every last shot is terrible", "this project is entirely heartless" or what-have-you. The world of expressing thought is not a one-way street. If one is going to put one's self out there then one is going to have to face push-back, whether it's from another user on the internet or a producer who isn't even involved directly with the project being criticized.

[FortuneSSJ]

I think fans would still dislike the retellings of BOG and ROF if someone else animated them. Better animation can't save you from having a bad story.

One Punch Man proves miracles can happen.

[Blade]

Dragon Ball Super is a pretty poorly tossed together piece of garbage. That's not in question, nor is it the problem.

How is the quality of the show not the problem? It's the impetus for the very debate!

Whilst I understand acutely that there are a raft of separate conversations to be had as to why Dragonball Super is a 'poorly tossed together piece of garbage', the circumstances around those issues do not negate people's right to take issue with the finished product - and they certainly don't mitigate its shortcomings.

I agree that it's unfair for people to pick on the animators responsible for specific cuts or the supervisors who oversaw particularly poor episodes. As most posters here are aware, there are factors beyond the talent alone that effect the quality of work, but, if anything, I believe that just transfers more culpability onto the higher-ups.

Whilst the industry-wide problems that compromise the show's quality are not unique to Dragonball Super, what is plainly obvious is that of practically every weekly anime in production at the moment, the way that those problems have been managed by Toei has been poorer than 90% of the crop. And for such a high profile, high exposure, franchise such as Dragonball, it sticks out markedly and drums up a large and loud chorus of angry voices.

Just because the global popularity of the franchise happens to be shining a worldwide light on some of the ugliest symptoms of an overworked industry, I don't think the criticism itself is any less valid - more abundant though it may be.

[VegettoEX]

Dragon Ball Super is a pretty poorly tossed together piece of garbage. That's not in question, nor is it the problem. It's a symptom of a greater problem, just like the terrible attempts at criticism are also a symptom of a greater problem, a general lack of knowledge and employing of forethought and common sense. It's fine and dandy to say "I don't like this" but it is not fine and dandy to toss around lousy criticism like "this is lazy", "every last shot is terrible", "this project is entirely heartless" or what-have-you. The world of expressing thought is not a one-way street. If one is going to put one's self out there then one is going to have to face push-back, whether it's from another user on the internet or a producer who isn't even involved directly with the project being criticized.

Jacob, this is just more of your over-written, flowery corporate defense garbage. I'm sorry; it is, and I for one am getting sick of it. Your posts are never concise and just repeat the same thing over and over.

People are allowed to not like what they see, and IN GENERAL, they're OVER-DELIVERING in their analysis. Very few people here are actually just saying "yo this is lazy! peace out" and leaving it at that. Blade summed it up perfectly, and you're either ignoring what people are saying to you, or are too blindsided to understand it. Your understanding of the industry itself is preventing you from being able to actually take a step back and analyze it from an artistic point of view rather than a technical and business-oriented one.

[BoosterZabi]

Toei's not going to let go of Dragonball. It's too valuable and it's one of the most recognizable animes in the world.

I don't think they will improve the animation because this problem isn't just related to DBS, but rather to all of their animes over the past 5ish years (or more). I seen this problem in Sailor Moon Crystal (http://sailormooncrystalfailures.tumblr ... ged/compbr) and in the latest Digimon Tri movie. Toei wants to be cheap, they're refusing to cooperate and are only fixing minor touch ups after the shows debut. It does seem that they did make the animation a tad bit better at the beginning of the tournament episodes though. But honestly they would need to completely remake the earlier episodes because everything sticks out like a sore thumb. This will never happen of course. Oh and the people who are making comparisons with DB and DBZ over the animation, you have to understand that the DB franchise always had junk animation for the most part. And there are pleeeenty of animation and keyframe errors spread out across DBZ (ex: Cell Games).

And regards to the show in my personal opinion, I like it. It's humorous, full of action, and it's very colorful. Everything feels like a Toriyama project. Though, I am little conflicted on whether I like the movies or the DBS events more in regards to how things occurred since both had their personal good parts.

[ChronoTwigger]

Oh and the people who are making comparisons with DB and DBZ over the animation, you have to understand that the DB franchise always had junk animation for the most part. And there are pleeeenty of animation and keyframe errors spread out across DBZ (ex: Cell Games).

We are in 2016. DB is THE japanese anime brand in many countries. People want for greater standards. OPM, DeathNote and others shown that you can have an HIGH overall animation standard for the whole serie.
Of course, I was for something better than '90 tv rushed shows.
My big point is: why a 100 episode series instead of a greater, more curated 12/24 episode, gather momentum and go for other seasons if any? Who knows.

Obviously they've already spent too much money for a reboot/redux (buyout clauses and so on).
So, what you see is what you get.
Hopefully, someone like it enough.

[precita]

They should have just stuck with annual movies rather than a series. I would have much rathered this Champa arc in a movie with good animation than a poorly animated show.

Super should have never happened. We should have just gotten movies, and maybe the ocassional specials, covering the story.

[Jaetinh]

Even though it'll never happen, I'd love for Madhouse to make a 24-episodes season of DBS. I fell in love with Madhouse when I watched their adaptation of Hunter x Hunter. They are also doing a fantastic job on Ace of Diamond, first season had 75 episodes and the second season (currently still on air) has 51 episodes. That's 126 episodes of great animation and art so far.

[Lookerman]

I don't think they will improve the animation because this problem isn't just related to DBS, but rather to all of their animes over the past 5ish years (or more). I seen this problem in Sailor Moon Crystal (http://sailormooncrystalfailures.tumblr ... ged/compbr) and in the latest Digimon Tri movie. Toei wants to be cheap, they're refusing to cooperate and are only fixing minor touch ups after the shows debut. It does seem that they did make the animation a tad bit better at the beginning of the tournament episodes though. But honestly they would need to completely remake the earlier episodes because everything sticks out like a sore thumb. This will never happen of course. Oh and the people who are making comparisons with DB and DBZ over the animation, you have to understand that the DB franchise always had junk animation for the most part. And there are pleeeenty of animation and keyframe errors spread out across DBZ (ex: Cell Games).

This is one of the things I've been seeing in DBS's animation (my own included).

Toei's always been like this, it's just that it's become more noticeable over the past couple years or so (I'd like to say around the time of the Gaiking remake, but it may have been even earlier). However, I've noticed that Super's been cranking up these problems up past 11. Which, while I agree with, is far from the only one to do so. I have little hope for the new Precure series animation-wise (from what I've seen, it looks middling at best).

But this is a DB forum, and seeing as DBS is the subject at hand. I think the problem here is (largely) the lack of pre-production lead time. Though I doubt Toei would have given the show that much anyway, not only going by the amount of shows they have to manage, but because the franchise has always been like this, even in the BoG and RoF movies. And as much as we'd all like TOei to get their shit together/Madhouse or some other company get the animation rights. I really see no change happening in the foreseeable future. Doubly do considering the series got off to a rocky start in pretty much every aspect.

[Hellspawn28]

Is having better animation that important than having a good story? I'm a type of person with a open mind that can watch anything as long if a good story is told. I watch movies and TV with bad special effects, but I can watch it with a good story. I mean Mad House has done great animation for bad anime before.

[saiyanvegetable]

Is having better animation that important than having a good story? I'm a type of person with a open mind that can watch anything as long if a good story is told. I watch movies and TV with bad special effects, but I can watch it with a good story. I mean Mad House has done great animation for bad anime before.

That's great and all but anime is a visual medium. The art and animation are a means to further the story and create an atmosphere, tone, visual style, etc. to compliment the story arc. Other things go into this as well like music and sound effects. The whole "at least it's got a good story" argument fails here because A) Super's story is about as deep as puddle in the desert and B) The little story it has is usually action driven which means by and large its up to the art and animation to convey that. Even non action parts such as tense moments (King Vegeta and Beerus was absolutely laughable as was Piccolo's sacrifice) heavily depend on this. Deathnote might have been able to get away with subpar animation but that's because it's mostly dialogue driven but even then - the direction of the artstyle and carefully crafted animation really gave it the "Oomph" it had (along with its superb music soundtrack). Super had 1 or 2 cuts where the animation was fluid but overall it was absolutely lackluster (Beerus vs Goku - ok the clouds were animated fluidly but so what?) so much so that it looked as if they were dancing in the air rather than fighting. Where in Z, if somebody got hit hard - man, you almost really felt it.

[pacz360]

Is having better animation that important than having a good story? I'm a type of person with a open mind that can watch anything as long if a good story is told. I watch movies and TV with bad special effects, but I can watch it with a good story. I mean Mad House has done great animation for bad anime before.

Pal let's be real here db was never known for it's plot.The story is fight the next bad guy who's stronger than the previous every arc all the time.you need both good animation and story for to be good other wise ya get the mess that is super right now.

[Hellspawn28]

Dragon Ball did had a good story to it. Pilaf Saga - 23rd Tenkachi Budokai did had a good plot and writing to it. Even the Saiyan and Freeza had really good story moments to it as well. Saying that Dragon Ball never had a good story to it is wrong in my opinion. I think the Champa saga so far has been solid story wise. There has been good build up to Champa's character, we get know more about the origins of the Dragon Balls and the Saiyan race. I like better than the Shadow Dragon arc in GT.

[pacz360]

never said db had no plot nor good story it just that its plot wasn't was amazing or deep.

[Kuririn Fan]

never said db had no plot nor good story it just that its plot wasn't was amazing or deep.

It's show for little boys. It's not supposed to be deep.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

super has terrible colors, and drawing.