Is EVERYTHING Dragon Ball ‘Z' to you?

[Zephyr]

It only annoys me when it's used to support the bizarre notion that the pre-Raditz section of the manga and the post-Raditz section of the manga are to be treated as different entities. Which is in turn usually perpetuated to support the notion that one is strictly and absolutely better than the other in every way (which is especially odd since the series is obviously at its best from the 22nd TB to the Freeza arc ).

It's generally coupled with misconceptions disguised as arguments, such as "DB = light hearted, fantasy, comedy; Z = serious, sci-fi, action", and "there's an abrupt tonal 180 the exact moment that Raditz arrives". Which itself seems to be coupled with a fan-perception of the franchise still dominated by the Funimation's version, with its severely altered script, score, and tone for the Z section, which does constitute a radical tonal shift the moment Raditz arrives.

[Hellspawn28]

I view the whole franchise as "Dragon Ball". I normally call Pilaf - 23rd Tenkachi Budokai as "Pre-Z era in the manga since the manga is simply called "Dragon Ball".

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

No because the roots of the series is in the original Dragon Ball and the first 16 manga volumes.

[MCDaveG]

No, it's Dragon Ball, all of it.

[Cetra]

No. Everything for me is what it is. Dragon Ball. Just like all thumbs are fingers but not all fingers thumbs

Dragon Ball GT is a non canon show and at this point a complete alternate spin off of the series, even though it was meant to be a continuation of DBZ, at this point its clearly not the case as its being currently retconed by "Super" and worse its only real given existence at this point is its long history of being supported by 3rd party entertainment like DB heroes cards, video games, action figures etc

You do not know that. That is a baseless claim.

[Lord Beerus]

Hell no. It's all collectively Dragon Ball under one umbrella.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I consider Z to be everything from the arrival of Raditz to the epilogue after the defeat of Buu, plus the ending chapter/episodes with Uub. Also the movies from Dead Zone to Wrath of the Dragon, and some of the TV specials. Maybe BoG and RoF too, but they might easily be rebranded as DBS movies.

[Dbzfan94]

The longer I stay on this site, the less tolerant I am of dubisms and related fandom ideas. I used to be ok with "Say-un" and "King Kai", but now I cringe whenever I hear them (which is EVERY TIME an English speaking fan talks about them)

I cringe when I see fans act like they're superior to everyone else just because they watch the show in Japanese or because they saw DB before Z.

I second this.

[Netter75]

The longer I stay on this site, the less tolerant I am of dubisms and related fandom ideas. I used to be ok with "Say-un" and "King Kai", but now I cringe whenever I hear them (which is EVERY TIME an English speaking fan talks about them)

I cringe when I see fans act like they're superior to everyone else just because they watch the show in Japanese or because they saw DB before Z.

I second this.

Third with passion.

[jamiljamtheman]

When I talk about something or someone from DBZ, I say DBZ; and if something from the first DB, ill say DB. If GT, I'll say DBGT, same with Super, etc.

As a general statement I say I like Dragon Ball because my like isn't limited to only one of the series', and as a whole they all make up the DB story.

And if a person is mostly familiar with DBZ it makes sense for them to refer to it as DBZ since they're most likely talking about Z anyway.

[Xeztin]

I think a lot of people use the term "DBZ" as in Dee bee zee, because it's a lot shorter than Dragon Ball or Dragon Ball Z. Especially here in North America, because if you simply said Dee Bee no one would know what your talking about. Where I live everyone says Dee bee zee because in all honesty they are too lazy to say Dragon Ball. It's not that they call the entire franchise DBZ, tons here are aware of Dragon Ball being the actual franchise name. A lot even know Z was the anime and Viz's doing on the English manga releases because of its popularity. They use the word DBZ because most in North America grew up with the "Z" anime, and it is the name that became popular.

Is it everything to me? nope, Z is Raditz to Boo for me. I do however find it weird that even basically all of us on here refer to the manga's ending as "EOZ" or "End of Z". Why don't we call it EODB or End of Dragon Ball? Because it's easier, faster to say/type, and because end of Z is more popular and more recognized than end of db. I think the same reasoning can be applied to the use of everyone referring to DB as a whole as DBZ instead of DB.

[Protege]

I freaking honestly would just prefer if people would stop mixing the entire franchise like it was just a complete story or series, because its not. Dragon ball was originally a light hearted kids comic and it follows a different coloration for originally being a gag, adventure manga, thats why you cant use certain Goku feats like him breaking the fourth wall or flying to a moon on his powerpole while being able to breathe in space because its gag.

Dragon ball Z is where you start to see more substance in the show and its transformation into shounen series in order to compete against saint seiya and sailor moon. Thats why you actually had a plot in the story and cool looking characters and villains showing up like Vegeta, Frieza, Future Trunks, Androids etc

Dragon Ball GT is a non canon show and at this point a complete alternate spin off of the series, even though it was meant to be a continuation of DBZ, at this point its clearly not the case as its being currently retconed by "Super" and worse its only real given existence at this point is its long history of being supported by 3rd party entertainment like DB heroes cards, video games, action figures etc

Dragon Ball Super is a true continuation of DBZ and with a strong influence of original Dragon Ball which is why the show has lately been so light hearted. Ofcourse in terms of writing its been pretty crude because it feels like the show was written by an eight year old kid with goku busting universes with punches and universe 6th tournament which felt like a ripoff from multiverse fanfic manga.


At this point do you still want to refer Dragon Ball as this complete mess?? Hell no!! There were clearly good and bad parts of its overall franchise. Thats why calling someone a dragon ball fan in a way could almost be insulting, as not everyone here gonna love the same thing. I simply prefered the old school DBZ and disliked GT and Super. Original Dragon Ball was great too but at this point its simply just too old and forgotten to me.

[sintzu]

I freaking honestly would just prefer if people would mixing the entire franchise like it was just a complete story or series, because its not.


At this point do you still want to refer Dragon Ball as this complete mess??

Of course it isn't which is why each series was renamed by both Toie and Toriyama, the original author so if he looked at it as just one then he wouldn't have let them rename each part let alone do it himself.

No, because the writing and style each one has is too different from one another.

[Protege]

Of course it isn't which is why each series was renamed by both Toie and Toriyama, the original author so if he looked at it as just one then he wouldn't have let them rename each part let alone do it himself.

No, because the writing and style each one has is too different from one another.

I just dont like the whole hypocritic behavior of some people thinking its fine to refer everything in the show as Dragon Ball but not okay to refer everything in the show as Dragon Ball Z. Both of those titles suck! Just refer the series to what point in the timeline your talking about exactly, dbz part? db part? dbs part? or db gt part? Its that simple!

[sintzu]

I just dont like the whole hypocritic behavior of some people thinking its fine to refer everything in the show as Dragon Ball but not okay to refer everything in the show as Dragon Ball Z.

You can call everything DB because it has it in the name unlike Z but it's best to call each series what it is cause doing otherwise will just make conversations a lot harder than they should be.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

It pisses me off. It annoys me even more when people say DB is just a prequel and is not important.

[sintzu]

It annoys me even more when people say DB is just a prequel and is not important.

That's kind of how it is even though it isn't.

For the past 15 years, all the franchise's merchandise has been about Z and rarely if ever about DB.

When Toie decided to introduce the franchise to new people through Kai, they went straight to Z and I don't think Toriyama was against it.

In terms of the prequel part, you could watch Z and enjoy it just as much as someone who watched DB 1st, at least I did and I'm sure a good amount of American fans will agree on this and Toie knows this or they wouldn't have started Kai with Raditz.

I love DB like you and others here but it hasn't aged as well as Z which is a worldwide, timeless classic, it was enjoyed in the late 80's, the 90's, the 2000's and now the 2010's without any signs of slowing down, even with a new series being produced.

DB didn't really get big outside of Japan during the 80's.

[Kuririn Fan]

It annoys me even more when people say DB is just a prequel and is not important.

That's kind of how it is even though it isn't.

For the past 15 years, all the franchise's merchandise has been about Z and rarely if ever about DB.

When Toie decided to introduce the franchise to new people through Kai, they went straight to Z and I don't think Toriyama was against it.

In terms of the prequel part, you could watch Z and enjoy it just as much as someone who watched DB 1st, at least I did and I'm sure a good amount of American fans will agree on this and Toie knows this or they wouldn't have started Kai with Raditz.

I love DB like you and others here but it hasn't aged as well as Z which is a timeless classic, it was enjoyed in the late 80's, the 90's, the 2000's and now the 2010's without any signs of slowing down, even with a new series being produced.

DB aged well and is a timeless classic.
And you should watch it in DB - DBZ order, the way it was meant to be.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

I freaking honestly would just prefer if people would stop mixing the entire franchise like it was just a complete story or series, because its not. Dragon ball was originally a light hearted kids comic and it follows a different coloration for originally being a gag, adventure manga, thats why you cant use certain Goku feats like him breaking the fourth wall or flying to a moon on his powerpole while being able to breathe in space because its gag.

Dragon ball Z is where you start to see more substance in the show and its transformation into shounen series in order to compete against saint seiya and sailor moon. Thats why you actually had a plot in the story and cool looking characters and villains showing up like Vegeta, Frieza, Future Trunks, Androids etc

That's why calling someone a dragon ball fan in a way could almost be insulting, as not everyone here gonna love the same thing. I simply prefered the old school DBZ and disliked GT and Super. Original Dragon Ball was great too but at this point its simply just too old and forgotten to me.

Sorry, but all of this is wrong.

Dragonball IS a complete and singular series, with 519 chapters in Weekly Shounen Jump from 1984 to 1995. The first chapter of the the Saiyan arc started the very next week after the 23rd budoukai.

The shift to more dramatic stories was gradual and serious moments are in the earlier arcs. I don't know what "different coloration" is supposed to mean. Humor and "gags" can be found throughout the Freeza, Cell, and Boo arcs. Also, first you say Dragonball was a kids comic and then you say it transformed into a shounen series in Z. Shounen comics are for kids.

As for more substance, many (not me, necessarily) would argue that it is the earlier arcs that have the most character and world development.

Cool looking characters? Like Blooma, Gokuu, Muten-Roushi, Kuririn, Tehnshinhan and Piccolo? All pre-Raditz

And if "Dragonball fan" is an insult, I don't think I can say anything sufficiently inoffensive. Maybe you should reread the series if it's too "old and forgotten"

rant over.

[sintzu]

DB aged well and is a timeless classic.

And you should watch it in DB - DBZ order, the way it was meant to be.

Then why isn't there much merchandise for it ? why aren't there any new movies for it ? or video games ? why isn't it being showed around the world as much as Z ?

I'm currently re-watching it now, I just finished the Baba arc and I agree that it should be watched in order to see the world and characters build but Z is written in a way that allows you to skip it and still know what's going on and enjoy the story and characters.

It was meant to be seen like that but the chances of bringing in new fans today if you introduced them to it 1st are very slim compared to introducing them to Z or Kai which has an even higher chance at bringing in new fans due to the reduced episode count.