Can Goku beat Beerus now?

[Blackstripe]

Ugh...why is it so hard to grasp that Gokuu can surpass Beerus in raw power with KKx10, yet still not be able to defeat him with it due to burning out too quickly? Just look at his fight with Hit!

[Polyphase Avatron]

Is it possible that Kaio-ken doesn't multiply everything equally when stressed to that level? Maybe Goku's speed was increased a lot but his strength/power/stamina stayed roughly the same. I say this because Hit was unable to get stronger throughout the match and only improved by extending the duration of his time skip, yet when Goku used Kaio-ken, Hit could still take his blows and hurt him with attacks, even though Hit's actual strength/power never increased.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Ugh...why is it so hard to grasp that Gokuu can surpass Beerus in raw power with KKx10, yet still not be able to defeat him with it due to burning out too quickly? Just look at his fight with Hit!

This is a series that places importance on power. If Goku surpassed Beers, it would've been noted at some point because it's a big deal. Since it isn't noted anywhere, there's no reason to assume that he did.

[Slamscape]

Is it possible that Kaio-ken doesn't multiply everything equally when stressed to that level? Maybe Goku's speed was increased a lot but his strength/power/stamina stayed roughly the same. I say this because Hit was unable to get stronger throughout the match and only improved by extending the duration of his time skip, yet when Goku used Kaio-ken, Hit could still take his blows and hurt him with attacks, even though Hit's actual strength/power never increased.

My thought it goku was only in KKx10 for that first initial attack up to his kamehameha at the end of the episode.
Only that it is possible he was only at regular KK level.

[Cetra]

The better question is how can Whis think Goku and Vegeta Fukkatsu no F time can together beat Beerus when Kaiouken Goku cannot.

[Mountaineer28]

At this point, I don't think the 6 - 10 - 15 scale, or even the percentages of Beerus's power apply any more. Especially if we are saying that the Kaioken multilpier is still the same as it was in Z. The only explanation I can think of, is that the Kaioken multilpier is much lower for SSB Goku, or that Beerus is well over ten times SSB Goku's strength. Either way Goku ends up weaker than Beerus.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

The better question is how can Whis think Goku and Vegeta Fukkatsu no F time can together beat Beerus when Kaiouken Goku cannot.

Well, that Whis line was omitted in Super. Instead, we have Goku admitting that they can't fight Beers together because he's too strong.

[Slamscape]

The better question is how can Whis think Goku and Vegeta Fukkatsu no F time can together beat Beerus when Kaiouken Goku cannot.

Well, that Whis line was omitted in Super. Instead, we have Goku admitting that they can't fight Beers together because he's too strong.

We can't take anything at face value in DBS for the most part.
Don't forget that Goku still thinks Monaka is far stronger than him. It's entirely possible he is just placing Beerus and Monaka on a high pedistal in his mind.
During his fight with Beerus in DBS it was still implied Goku was causing a good deal of effort out of Beerus. Whis even stated that it was very unexpected that Beerus would end up using so much power on him.

Beerus tanked Vegetas rage attack and called it 10%. Still he considered that to be an unworthy opponent.
Nothing matches up or lines up in their series. Straight up hot mess.

[Meirizone]

How about this question: Who Cares?
Why does everyone seem to be so hung up on can Goku beat Beerus or Whis or anybody else for that matter. Who gives a crap? Is there a reason he should beat Beerus? Beerus isn't a threat to Earth anymore and Goku even treats him like a friend. Will everyone sleep better knowing Goku is the ultimate winner? Since we now know Monaka was a weakling that means Goku actually IS the strongest person Beerus has ever fought, which makes him the most powerful mortal in the universe. That's pretty cool! I'd rather there were unreachable heights for our main characters, let the depths of Beerus's power be truly incomprehensible. It'd be great that if they ever came back to Goku trying to fight Beerus after a bunch of power-ups or whatever and still have Beerus kick him to the curb.

I'm not totally serious about this, but honestly I don't care who the strongest guy is, just give me a good plot and some awesome fights. I love all the characters in Dragonball but have never been concerned with power scaling or who can beat who.

So what if he's not a threat? Goku is the protagonist of the show. He has managed to surpass everyone up to this point, he was always the best, an inspiration. Why should it change now?
For me Goku is the best example of how hard work, determination and persistence can pay off. Even at the bottom of the world, when everything seemed hopeless, it was Goku who rose at the end and changed everything.
Take this aspect of the show out, and all the magic is gone.
So he's the god of destruction, he can destroy planets by itching, and there's his attendant, who's much stronger than him? Ok. It's still Goku we're talking about, he'll find a way to surpass them both.
So to answer your question - no, i will not be satisfied with Goku being the strongest mortal being in the universe and have the gods stronger than him. Yes, I will sleep better knowing Goku is the strongest being in the universe, mortal or god.

[Pannaliciour]

Wait, wasn't Beerus nervous when Goku used kaio ken times 2 or something to explain his increase in Power/ speed etc. That was before Goku used times 10 against Hit.

[Hugo Boss]

He was. But even after seeing everything Goku and Hit did, he still felt comfortable in provoking Goku to fight him if he desires.

[Slamscape]

He was. But even after seeing everything Goku and Hit did, he still felt comfortable in provoking Goku to fight him if he desires.

Which CAN be explained by goku being a hot mess at the time.
Or the fact that goku still thinks he's no match for him, could have been playing off that.
Or he really is that much stronger.... There's no telling anymore.

But keep in mind that after this. Goku fought Beerus in base form. With a costume yes, but was still taking the hits good.

[Hugo Boss]

It felt more like Goku could challenge Beerus anytime, the result would be the same. Even if Goku could match Beerus in the costume, we don't know much it restrained him.

[MaxZ]

I just wish the series had refrained from using all the percents that Beerus has stated, that way we wouldn't get plotholes like this

I'm not a huge stickler for plotholes but it does bother me a bit

[Hugo Boss]

Speaking about percentages, I don't think the 10% line represents a plothole at all. It's talking about Beerus, but it doesn't give any hint to how powerful Vegeta was when pressuring him. Then, you have a good range to work with while elaborating your power lists.

For example,..

(My Bulma) Vegeta - 1%~4%
Super Saiyan Blue - 5%~9%
Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken - 10%~18%
Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken x10 - 50%~90%

That still gives Beerus a confortable edge over current Goku. Perhaps he should consider the idea of a Kaioken x20 next time.

[Cipher]

For what it's worth, and I agree with some others here on caring less about this now that Beerus seems to have fully loved beyond the role of antagonist, I do subscribe to the belief that Goku can surpass Beerus' raw power through Kaio-Ken, though it hardly matters in terms of surpassing him overall--Goku can barely maintain the form for a minute before nearly crippling himself, and Beerus can last that long. Even during Hit's match against Goku, Champa was insistent that Hit just try to dodge Goku until the technique wore off.

Yes, that Toriyama quote exists, but the scene implying Beerus' nervousness wasn't in there for nothing either. Even if it's a product of Toei's script rather than Toriyama's outline, nothing with him momentarily being able to spike past Beerus would fundamentally change any understanding of the series.

[Neon Z]

Take away the years of training Goku had since first meeting Beerus, and you get his first time power as a SSJG to be pathetic compared to Beerus, likely not even worth his attention.
Which also would directly go against Beerus statement on using 10% power on raging Ssj2 Vegeta.

In Super, it was stated that Beerus was outright lying about the amount of power that he used against Goku, so he probably was lying about the power he used against Vegeta too, otherwise the numbers wouldn't match and Goku would notice the lie, since he was secretly watching the previous battles too.

[shadd21]

I have no problem with beerus being so powerful, i just wish he wasn't such a dick about his power

[Kuririn Fan]

I have no problem with beerus being so powerful, i just wish he wasn't such a dick about his power

Thats why him being so scared of Zeno-sama was enjoyable to watch.

[Faisal Shourov]

Of course, Goku can solo Whis+Vados at the same time as well

Goku = 60
Whis = 15
Vados = 15

Goku = 2x (Whis + vados)

Hit might be able to fight Zeno too