Was the two base/suppressed ki theory finally confirmed?

[Chiki]

If it were as simple as that then Goku would have already have turned into a Super Saiyan Blue in Battle of Gods but he didn't.

LOL no. It took a while for Vegeta and Goku to master mixing SS with SSG power, that's why they didn't use SSB in their fight with Beerus. Terrible explanation.

[Bullza]

If it were as simple as that then Goku would have already have turned into a Super Saiyan Blue in Battle of Gods but he didn't.

LOL no. It took a while for Vegeta and Goku to master mixing SS with SSG power, that's why they didn't use SSB in their fight with Beerus. Terrible explanation.

Alright, calm yourself, there's no need for you to put on that attitude yet again, nobody else does that.

There was nothing said about them having to master mixing their powers. What was shown was that as soon as Whis told them to power up their Ki without letting it leak out was when the Super Saiyan Blue tease happened.

So obviously them not letting their Ki leak out has something to do with Super Saiyan Blue meaning that there's more to it than SSJB just being SBG Goku turning into a Super Saiyan.

There's one Base Goku and him turning Super Saiyan while leaking his Ki and not leaking his Ki is clearly the difference between a regular Super Saiyan and a Super Saiyan Blue.

[TheMikado]

Why can't they leak/not leak their Ki in base as well? Why would that be a SSJ only practice?

Furthermore if it's just s matter of Ki leaking why bother with lower forms at all, just stop the Ki leak and keep all the power? It seems really dumb to actively waste and leak Ki after you've learned the technique to not doing it. It's like a trained athlete deciding to breath irregularly during a competition after learning and training with proper breathing techniques.

[Bullza]

It's not something that they really delved deep into, as far as I remember it was brought up when the SSJB tease happened and then when they were in Whis' staff.

They never explained if there were any downsides to it or anything like that. I can't remember if in Whis staff when they staret figuring it out if they said it was hard or not, maybe it requires a lot of focus or concentration to be able to do it.

They can be sensed in Base form and they can be sensed in Super Saiyan form seemingly because they are leaking Ki that can be sensed.

As Super Saiyan Blue they are not leaking Ki which is most likely why they can't be sensed and if they're also keeping more of that power contained within themselves without leaking it out then it's probably why it's much stronger aswell.

[TheMikado]

That's fine but it seems like it would be something they should be able to do in base as well. Or any form for that matter.

The more I think about the more I realize that this God form/ Ki doesn't actually know what it is or how it works. The prerequisites in previous forms was pretty explicit with maybe the exception of SSJ3 but even then we assumed it wasn't something that could be obtained while being a normal living being.

[Bullza]

Well I think that is what he does with his Super Saiyan. Him not letting his Ki leak out when he becomes a regular Super Saiyan or when he's already a Super Saiyan is what automatically turns him into a Super Saiyan Blue.

So there shouldn't be a form of regular Super Saiyan where they can not leak it because doing so is what makes Super Saiyan Blue in the first place.

Though why he doesn't do it in Base is anyone's guess but we know for sure he can't because regardless of who he fought they've never said he can't be sensed.

It's confusing but then Goku did tell Frieza that it was confusing.

Personally I'd guess this whole Ki leaking idea was just introduced to find some reason for why Goku could still turn into a regular Super Saiyan in the Champa arc when before it seemed as though he wouldn't need to anymore.

[TheMikado]

^ which is fine but it makes even less sense in the context that Goku could theoretically go SSB2 or 3 through not leaking Ki rather than KK. In fact it sounds like he could stack all those if he wanted.
These forms are completely unnatural and overly complicated and poorly explained for no reason. They just aren't well thought out or written transformations.

[Bullza]

Perhaps he will become a Super Saiyan Blue 3 one day.

The from has always confused people, nobody has ever really known how exactly it was supposed to work and that before they then brought Ki leak part into it.

It was somewhat straightforward when it was just the Super Saiyan form of one who had the power of Super Saiyan God but now they've added the Ki leaking aspect into it which was glossed over and they brought the regular Super Saiyan back so it could have been explained much better.

[LowRyder2005]

I took it as Vegeta possibly referring just to Goku's Super Saiyan Blue. To have a confirmation, or a conclusive proof, we'd need something like Base Goku clearly outperforming one of his Super Saiyan forms, without any other variable involved.

[DragonHermit]

I think Saiyan beyond God means base form after learning how to use God Ki, rather than being base form + God Ki.

I'm starting to think God Ki is only used in SSBlue, and base forms only make very slight use of it.

[GodKaio-Ken]

I think Saiyan beyond God means base form after learning how to use God Ki, rather than being base form + God Ki.

I'm starting to think God Ki is only used in SSBlue, and base forms only make very slight use of it.

I've always believed having God Ki in some way increased his upper limit of Base Ki but that only SSB has any God Ki.

[DragonHermit]

I think Saiyan beyond God means base form after learning how to use God Ki, rather than being base form + God Ki.

I'm starting to think God Ki is only used in SSBlue, and base forms only make very slight use of it.

I've always believed having God Ki in some way increased his upper limit of Base Ki but that only SSB has any God Ki.

Yes, that seems to be the case, but how God Ki raised the upper limit of base form without being used is the question, because Saiyan beyond God is clearly way stronger than previous regular base form.

[TheMikado]

I took it as Vegeta possibly referring just to Goku's Super Saiyan Blue. To have a confirmation, or a conclusive proof, we'd need something like Base Goku clearly outperforming one of his Super Saiyan forms, without any other variable involved.

In the manga the SSG form outperforms SSJ but that mystery step is missing in the anime.

Anime base < SSJ1/2/3 < ? < SSB
Manga base < SSJ1/2/3 < SSG < SSB

That question many people are having is if there is something in between SSJ3 and SSB because if not it pushes all the lower forms up another tier. If you were going by the mange you would think there is absolutely something between those to levels as Goku explicitly showed it.

[GodKaio-Ken]

I think Saiyan beyond God means base form after learning how to use God Ki, rather than being base form + God Ki.

I'm starting to think God Ki is only used in SSBlue, and base forms only make very slight use of it.

I've always believed having God Ki in some way increased his upper limit of Base Ki but that only SSB has any God Ki.

Yes, that seems to be the case, but how God Ki raised the upper limit of base form without being used is the question, because Saiyan beyond God is clearly way stronger than previous regular base form.

I always imagined that when he absorbed the God Ki at the end of his fight with Beerus in BoG it attuned his body to be able to handle large amounts of Ki. I'd be lying if I told you exactly how I think this works but it's really the only semi-reasonable thing I can think of.

[TheMikado]

^ the manga version is the reasonable explanation, it pretty much explains everything.

[GodKaio-Ken]

^ the manga version is the reasonable explanation, it pretty much explains everything.

I haven't read it yet but from what I've seen people are just as confused about it. I'll have to check it out soon though.

[TheMikado]

^ the manga version is the reasonable explanation, it pretty much explains everything.

I haven't read it yet but from what I've seen people are just as confused about it. I'll have to check it out soon though.

The Champa arc alone is far cleaner. The best part is that they actually introduce a weakness to SSB instead of this hyper efficient Overpowered version in Super. Plus they give us a means of getting a comparison of SSG vs SSB which is like a 10x multiplier. Furthermore there's no KKx10 and no power or percent statements so there do not appear to be any contridictions in the Super continuity. The hit fight was more epic in the anime but that's because it was so over the top one pieceish

[Lord Beerus]

^ the manga version is the reasonable explanation, it pretty much explains everything.

I haven't read it yet but from what I've seen people are just as confused about it. I'll have to check it out soon though.

The Champa arc alone is far cleaner. The best part is that they actually introduce a weakness to SSB instead of this hyper efficient Overpowered version in Super. Plus they give us a means of getting a comparison of SSG vs SSB which is like a 10x multiplier. Furthermore there's no KKx10 and no power or percent statements so there do not appear to be any contridictions in the Super continuity. The hit fight was more epic in the anime but that's because it was so over the top one pieceish

That's the worst part in my opinion. Because it makes Goku and Vegeta look like the biggest hypocritical idiots on the face of the planet for how they mocked Freeza for having the same almost crippling flaw in his Golden form that SSJB form has for the both of them. And even after training in the ROSAT for three years, they never either overcame the stamina issue with the SSJB form or never noticed it to begin.

[TheMikado]

^ how else would you keep a superior form relevant? KK disappeared but I'm sure there were times when Goku only needed x20 his base but SSJ was all around superior so Goku just used that and held back from there.

[ekrolo2]

That's worst part in my opinion. Because it makes Goku and Vegeta look like the biggest hypocritical idiots on the face of the planet for how they mocked Freeza for having the same almost crippling flawin his Golden form that SSJB form has for the both of them. And even after training in the ROSAT for three years, they never either overcame the stamina issue with the SSJB form or never noticed it to begin.

Given Toyotaro's narration concerning the F arc, it implies Goku and Vegeta actually struggled to beat Freeza in whatever re-write he would've done for the F arc as he states they had to work together. They are aware of its weakness though, Goku even tells Vegeta he could've won against Hit if he hadn't used Blue against Cabba which Vegeta agrees with but he wanted to give Cabba a benchmark of power to strive toward.

As for the ROSAT thing, I actually prefer the idea they're going to have to work to master Blue. If we're really keeping them beneath Beerus and Whis for a long time, better to keep them down instead of perpetually keeping them in this "they can beat Beerus and Whis.... except not really" zone the anime has them in.