Future Trunks Arc: Characters Influence Rankings

[LightBing]

I appreciate quantifying this, but just to take a broad look without evidence in-hand, the Champa's Tournament arc would probably be the only arc in Dragon Ball Super so far to validate that 'complaint', wouldn't it?

That and the BoG arc being Goku-centric, with Vegeta having his moment to shine.
Unfortunately some complaints are very superficial and value a "villain kill" as the only meaningful moments. Obviously that with such reasoning Goku will stand out. Even if he does nothing for more than half the arc(training aside), like it was in the RoF arc or most of the second half of Dragon Ball.
Or the idea that power equals influence. Poor Bulma I guess, nothing but a pretty face in the whole franchise...

I'm not denying the tendencies and imbalance in Super, the short-sighted rhetoric is just toxic. Hopefully if the topic comes up regarding this arc, people will point out this thread. It isn't flawless but it's honest and unbiased.

[LightBing]

Episode #53 (#7)
Zamasu - 5 points (+2 for appearing, +3 for his fight with Goku) **
Son Goku - 5 points (+2 for appearing, +3 for his fight with Zamasu) *
Whis - 5 points (+2 for appearing, +3 for contributing to the investigation) *
Beerus - 5 points (+2 for appearing, +3 for contributing to the investigation) *
Present Bulma - 3 points (+2 for appearing, +1 for consecutive appearances)
Present Trunks - 3 points (+2 for appearing, +1 for consecutive appearances)
Shu - 3 points (+2 for appearing, +1 for consecutive appearances)
Pilaf - 3 points (+2 for appearing, +1 for consecutive appearances)
Present Mai - 11 points (+2 for appearing, +1 for consecutive appearances)
Dr.Brief - 3 points (+2 for appearing, +1 for consecutive appearances)
Future Trunks - 2 points *
Kuririn - 2 points **
#18 - 2 points
Marron - 2 points
Gowasu - 2 points

Notes:
Whis and Beerus thought of Zamasu and took the initiative, Goku is just going along to punch people, Gods in this case.

Suggestion:
Until now I was doing the episodes knowing what was going to happen, making it much easier to give importance to certain events. This encounter with Zamasu might not amount to much besides giving insight into Black, if Zamasu is indeed Black. Maybe with all the time travel shenanigans, this encounter might push Zamasu over the edge and "create" him. I can see many things happen.
Therefore I'm suggesting retroactive points, in case a previous event is discovered to be relevant, I would give the correct points to that situation.
Thought's?

Dwellings and tendencies:
This is a new section, to give a little bit of spice to these posts.

I will focus on Vegeta and Dr.Briefs. The first is in decline and the second, after only three episodes, has established himself in the upper part of the ranking.
Vegeta, who had appeared in every episode, failed for the first time. Goku, Beerus, Whis and Future Trunks are now the only ones to have a perfect record.
This goes to show that just standing around and having muscles can only take you so far. Mr.Briefs is playing an important role helping build the time-machine, mirroring his role in the Namek Arc, where he built the spaceship for Goku.

When the fighting kicks in, this will likely change and Vegeta should be projected into the top 5. For now he remains in 8th, tied with the comic relief gang.

[Alruneia]

I've gotta say, it's really cool of you to do this. When the arc is over I can see it being a good indicator of Super's character usage. Keep it up!

[Nejishiki]

I'm still of the opinion that older episodes shouldn't be retroactively altered in points. It's a part of weekly serialization to be stringed along and for perceived relevance to be flipped around.

[LightBing]

I'm still of the opinion that older episodes shouldn't be retroactively altered in points. It's a part of weekly serialization to be stringed along and for perceived relevance to be flipped around.

I might have explained myself poorly.
What I intend is to give points for the episode where we discovered the relevance of past events. Hypothetically speaking, next episode Vegeta reveals that something he did five episodes is essential to the creation of Black. I won't change the points of the past episode, I'll give Vegeta the points in the current episode.
It's like how I hold back giving points, until actions actually happen. Like with Future's Bulma notebook, which I only attributed it's importance when they need it, some episodes after it was introduced.

[Nejishiki]

Oh, then I actually agree with that. It's a payoff bonus, which deserves its recognition.

[LightBing]

Episode #54 (#8)
Future Trunks - 5 points (+2 for appearing, +3 for minor fight) **
Vegeta - 5 points (+2 for appearing, +3 for minor fight)
Zamasu - 3 points (+2 for appearing, +1 for consecutive appearance)
Son Goku - 2 points **
Whis - 2 points **
Present Bulma - 2 points *
Beerus - 2 points **
Present Trunks - 2 points *
Shu - 2 points *
Pilaf - 2 points *
Present Mai - 2 points *
Dr.Brief - 2 points *
Gowasu - 2 points *
Goku Black - 1 point

Notes:
Barely anything happened in this episode, only the fight between Vegeta and Future Trunks.

Dwellings and Tendencies:
Vegeta surpasses Future Mai and is currently ranked 7th in the arc. Dr. Briefs also surpasses Kuririn in the middle of the table.
Kuririn and Piccolo were absent from this episode right before the action starts, I suspect this may have been the last we see of them. Which is a shame, what do you guys think?

[Anime Kitten]

Personally, I don't mind them not appearing that much. I don't see much they could add by this point, but my stance may change when Black's part of the story is over.

[LightBing]

Episode #55 (#9)
Future Trunks - 6 points (+2 for appearing, +1 for consecutive appearance, +3 for going to the future)
Son Goku - 6 points (+2 for appearing, +1 for consecutive appearance, +3 for going to the future)
Whis - 6 points (+2 for appearing, +1 for consecutive appearance, +3 for info on the "God link")
Vegeta - 5 points (+2 for appearing, +3 for going to the future) *
Zamasu - 5 points (+2 for appearing, +3 for Zamasu's subplot) *
Gowasu - 5 points (+2 for appearing, +3 for Zamasu's subplot) **
Kaioshin - 5 points (+2 for appearing, +3 for having the kai-kai technique)
Beerus - 3 points (+2 for appearing, +1 for consecutive appearance)
Zeno-chan - 2 points
Grand Priest - 2 points
Old Kai - 2 points
Kibito - 2 points
Dr.Brief - 2 points **
Present Bulma - 2 points **
Present Trunks - 2 points **
Shu - 2 points **
Pilaf - 2 points **
Present Mai - 2 points **
Bulma's Mom - 1 point

Notes:
- I don't think a significant plot contribution score is deserved just for going to the future. Only 3 points for Future Trunks, Goku and Vegeta.
- Whis information is deserving of 3 points, it changes the game regarding the Gods, besides implications on future which we know of from the manga.
- I have given nothing so far to Gowasu and Zamasu in terms of their story, because we don't actually know how important they are. In this episode, I think they reached a point were it deserves recognition, far too many episodes to ignore the development that's going on.
- Kaioshin I've given points due to the Karin precedent from a few episodes earlier.
- The whole Zeno plot is undetermined so far, it may all be just a really long joke. No points until it turns into something.

Dwellings and Tendencies:
I think this marks the separation point of the three main characters of the arc: Future Trunks, Goku and Vegeta. Brains like Bulma and comic relief should start dropping.
I expect Black to defend his 2nd place, after a bunch of weeks with barely any points.
For those who were following this race, Bulma's Mom is now tied with Gohan! 3 points each in an anonymous,... hum, let's see; whatever they're very low.

[Nejishiki]

Which element of Zeno are you questioning? Is it the button he gifted to Goku? If so, I'd argue it's something along the lines of expanded lore, as flimsy as that might sound. Gowasu and Zamasu's points might need retroactive addition (Or rather, they should have earned those points from the beginning, so it's not truly retroactive.). I'm certain their subplot is pertinent information as it is now, but I'm sticking with "might" for technical reasons. It's to be seen. ( )

[Brettjr25]

How is Zamasu only at 14 pts? Like everything he's done has been an important plot contribution.

[LightBing]

Which element of Zeno are you questioning? Is it the button he gifted to Goku? If so, I'd argue it's something along the lines of expanded lore, as flimsy as that might sound. Gowasu and Zamasu's points might need retroactive addition (Or rather, they should have earned those points from the beginning, so it's not truly retroactive.). I'm certain their subplot is pertinent information as it is now, but I'm sticking with "might" for technical reasons. It's to be seen. ( )

The whole Zeno story has no actual connection to the plot, so far at least. It might be a set up for another arc or just a joke. It doesn't deserves points for expanding the lore in the realm of curiosity. Contrary to the God Link information, which is relevant.

Zamasu's plot has been a slow brew, giving it points each episode would force me to give points to Trunks struggles each episode, Vegeta's anger towards Black, the whole bunch of episodes Bulma was fixing the time-machine. I don't want to do that, it's faulty.
If they decided to extend the Zamasu's storyline, do I have to give him points for ten straight episodes while something is happening but not really? Likewise for Bulma's fixing of the time-machine, it's ridiculous to give her points for turning screws for ten episodes.
The action itself is what matters, not how long they take to do it.

I gave Zamasu's and Gowasu points in this episode because it has a sort of conclusion, symbolically represented with the turning of color of the sakura. That was the final stretch of his displeasure towards humans, he already was like that when introduced.

I highly suspect we'll see Zamasu's whole journey, so it probably will not be necessary to give retroactive points. Altought I might have to review that first Goku vs Zamasu, in light of the recent episode.

How is Zamasu only at 14 pts? Like everything he's done has been an important plot contribution.

Could you expand on it? He's only been having his storyline with Gowasu and had one fight with Goku, that's it. His low score is heavy affected by only appearing in four episodes, less than half of the arc.

[Nejishiki]

That's fair enough on the examples of other subplots. I didn't consider that. I was personally enamored with the focus Zamasu and Gowasu were receiving, so how about we just count the conclusion of every "act"? That's what you've already done after they returned to the present.

[LightBing]

That's fair enough on the examples of other subplots. I didn't consider that. I was personally enamored with the focus Zamasu and Gowasu were receiving, so how about we just count the conclusion of every "act"? That's what you've already done after they returned to the present.

Yeah, I'll keep doing it. It's fairer and consistent.

Next episode will be very interesting to evaluate. I wonder if Vegeta's done...

[Anime Kitten]

Next episode will be very interesting to evaluate.

I'll be looking forward to it. I'm anxious to see how these next couple episodes add to Black's score.

[Nejishiki]

Jumping ahead of you this time, but I think we can confidently determine nothing has come from the plot detailing Zamasu's knowledge of the Super Dragon Balls. That's likely to be the next episode where its given closure from the cliffhanger.

[ParkerAL]

A character's plot influence seems like a tricky thing to quantify. Zamasu's appearances in the story have largely been brief and enigmatic, but if he's the person behind Goku Black, that means the entire arc has revolved around his master plan so far, which makes his placement in the current ranking look odd.

I guess it's a similar situation to Freeza in the Namek arc. He was obviously the main villain, but he didn't actually do much until confronting the heroes directly.

Come to think of it, I wonder how Raditz and Nappa would score compared to Vegeta in the Saiyan arc. One of them revealed Goku's dramatic backstory and the other killed three major characters. Looking back, Vegeta really did do a lot of standing around in those early chapters/episodes. XD

Anyway, thank you for the fun thread, LightBing!

[LightBing]

The update has been late because I'm waiting for the most reliable subs. It's a shame, because the most interesting episodes to discuss are around the corner.

Jumping ahead of you this time, but I think we can confidently determine nothing has come from the plot detailing Zamasu's knowledge of the Super Dragon Balls. That's likely to be the next episode where its given closure from the cliffhanger.

Yup, I'll just wait for it. Like I have been doing until now.

A character's plot influence seems like a tricky thing to quantify. Zamasu's appearances in the story have largely been brief and enigmatic, but if he's the person behind Goku Black, that means the entire arc has revolved around his master plan so far, which makes his placement in the current ranking look odd.

I guess it's a similar situation to Freeza in the Namek arc. He was obviously the main villain, but he didn't actually do much until confronting the heroes directly.

Come to think of it, I wonder how Raditz and Nappa would score compared to Vegeta in the Saiyan arc. One of them revealed Goku's dramatic backstory and the other killed three major characters. Looking back, Vegeta really did do a lot of standing around in those early chapters/episodes. XD

Anyway, thank you for the fun thread, LightBing!

I don't know If you read every single post here, the discussion lately revolved a little on that. We can't actually confirm Zamasu's big picture in the plot, add to that is absence in half of the arc and his ranking is fair. He should blow up in the next few episodes, that's for sure.

The Freeza parallel works, although Freeza was always in the Namek arc from the start and was ordering people around. His hypothetical ranking would be much greater.
Raditz opened a whole new range of possibilities, my guess is he would have the highest per episode score in all of Dragon Ball.

[LightBing]

Episode #56 (#10)
Goku Black - 17 points (+2 for appearing, +6 for his fight with Vegeta, +3 for his fight with Goku, +6 for the reveal of his ability's)
Son Goku - 11 points (+2 for appearing, +3 for his fight with Black, +6 for retroactive points(see notes)) *
Vegeta - 8 points (+2 for appearing, +6 for his fight with Black) **
Future Zamasu - 8 points (+2 for appearing, +6 for the reveal he's working with Black)
Future Mai - 5 points (+2 for appearing, +3 for saving those people in Trunks absence)
Future Karin 3 points (3 points for saving Yajirobe)
Future Trunks - 2 points (+2 for appearing) *
Future Yajirobe - 2 points (+2 for appearing)

Notes:
- Goku's retroactive points refer to his first fight against Black. We learn in this episode that because of that fight Black was able to power up to his current level.
- While Black also says Vegeta helped him power up, it doesn't seem to have much impact since both Goku and Vegeta are even in terms of power.
- I gave Goku's short fight with Black only three points because it doesn't have a conclusion. The real fight comes next episode.
- Until proven otherwise, I consider this Zamasu as different from the one we knew before, so Future Zamasu it is.

Dwellings and Tendencies:
Whis and Beerus miss their first episode making Goku and Future Trunks the only ones with a perfect record.
Black reaches within three points of Future Trunks in the fight for 1st place.
Vegeta jumps ahead to 5th, he's one point of Whis.
Goku Black got the highest single scoring episode yet. Overcoming the twelve points Future Trunks got in episode 3.

[LightBing]

Episode #57 (#11)
Future Zamasu - 14 points (+2 for appearing, +6 for an important fight, +6 for his immortality) *
Vegeta - 9 points (+2 for appearing, +1 for consecutive appearances, +6 for helping to save Goku and Trunks)
Future Trunks - 8 points (+2 for appearing, +6 for an important fight) **
Goku Black - 8 points (+2 for appearing, +6 for an important fight) *
Son Goku - 8 points (+2 for appearing, +6 for an important fight) **
Future Yajirobe - 8 points (+2 for appearing, +6 points for helping to save Goku and Trunks) *
Future Mai - 8 points (+2 for appearing, +6 points for helping to save Goku and Trunks) *
Present Bulma - 2 points (+2 for appearing)
Present Zamasu - 2 points (+2 for appearing)
Gowasu - 2 points (+2 for appearing)
Zuno - 2 points (+2 for appearing)
Present Trunks - 2 points (+2 for appearing)
Shu - 1 point
Pilaf - 1 point
Present Mai - 1 point
Hit - 1 point

Notes:
- First, how much is worth saving Goku and Trunks? Should it be devalued because it was divided by many? Like you can see, I think it deserves the maximum points across the board. Let me know your thoughts guys/girls.
- Zamasu's immortality, I putted it in the same category as Black's ability.

Dwellings and Tendencies:
Future Mai talk about being important wasn't a smokescreen, she just overcame Beerus and Present Bulma. Right ahead of her is Whis but after him it's the big boys!
Like expected, Future Zamasu is quickly rising in the ranks.

Current Tiers:
Tier 0 (Spotlight Characters)
Future Trunks
Goku
Goku Black

Tier 1 (Main Characters)
Vegeta

Tier 2 (Secondary Characters)
From Whis until Present Zamasu

Tier 3 (Supporting Characters)
From Kuririn until Future Yajirobe

Tier 4 (Tertiary Characters)
The rest, mostly one timers.