Countries that start with DBZ really missed a lot

[sintzu]

There's a lot going on at the beginning of the Radditz saga too. Such as: all the characters and their history.

This is true but the Saiyan arc feels like a new beginning rather than a continuation that won't make sense unless you've seen what came before it.

[ABED]

There's a lot going on at the beginning of the Radditz saga too. Such as: all the characters and their history.

This is true but the Saiyan arc feels like a new beginning rather than a continuation that won't make sense unless you've seen what came before it.

But DB is a simple story that you can understand even mid story.

Take the dark knight trilogy for example, where would it make sense to introduce someone to it, at the middle of begins or at the start of the dark knight ? you'll miss part of the story either way but which one would feel like a natural beginning ? that's how I see the Saiyan arc, it's not the beginning but it's the 2nd most logical place to start.

But the beginning of the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai isn't mid story. And I wouldn't show someone The Dark Knight first. Sure, you can get the story but the viewer would miss out on a lot, plus I think Begins is better.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

This is true but the Saiyan arc feels like a new beginning rather than a continuation that won't make sense unless you've seen what came before it.

Again, the Boo saga is just as much a "new beginning". All the characters are older, the setting starts off in a new place, there's no cliffhangers from the Cell arc etc. You could skip everything pre-Boo and still make sense of it just as well.

[TheGreatness25]

I could be wrong, but I read somewhere (a long, long time ago) that they tried starting with Dragon Ball, but it wasn't catching on. That's why the first 13 episodes and the DB movies were dubbed by the Ocean cast (I remember asking my parents to buy the VHS tapes from Suncoast Video in a mall... good times). It seems like they tried with Dragon Ball, it didn't catch on, and then they went with Z. I'm not sure how well Z did before it's break on Toonami though. Then three years (or so) after Z went on Toonami and became the biggest thing since sliced bread, I guess they felt that their audience was now ready for Dragon Ball.

While watching Dragon Ball Z first isn't the way to go, it never hindered my enjoyment of Dragon Ball. They felt like two completely different shows. Actually, when Tenshinhan, Chaozu, Yajirobe, Kami, Piccolo, etc. showed up, I was genuinely excited because I knew that they were main players instead of a "Let's see where this goes" mentality.

There were several times where I got to "rediscover" Dragon Ball: watching DB for the first time, watching the Japanese version for the first time, watching the movies for the first time. Obviously all of those experiences were out of sync, but that never took away from the enjoyment that I got out of it. It never felt like anything way spoiled for me. I guess that's because I didn't have a choice and lived through it that way blissfully unaware. Now, as a jaded adult, if they'd attempt to launch Super from after the Freeza stuff, I know I'd get pissed.

[ABED]

I could be wrong, but I read somewhere (a long, long time ago) that they tried starting with Dragon Ball, but it wasn't catching on. That's why the first 13 episodes and the DB movies were dubbed by the Ocean cast (I remember asking my parents to buy the VHS tapes from Suncoast Video in a mall... good times). It seems like they tried with Dragon Ball, it didn't catch on, and then they went with Z. I'm not sure how well Z did before it's break on Toonami though. Then three years (or so) after Z went on Toonami and became the biggest thing since sliced bread, I guess they felt that their audience was now ready for Dragon Ball.

While watching Dragon Ball Z first isn't the way to go, it never hindered my enjoyment of Dragon Ball. They felt like two completely different shows. Actually, when Tenshinhan, Chaozu, Yajirobe, Kami, Piccolo, etc. showed up, I was genuinely excited because I knew that they were main players instead of a "Let's see where this goes" mentality.

There were several times where I got to "rediscover" Dragon Ball: watching DB for the first time, watching the Japanese version for the first time, watching the movies for the first time. Obviously all of those experiences were out of sync, but that never took away from the enjoyment that I got out of it. It never felt like anything way spoiled for me. I guess that's because I didn't have a choice and lived through it that way blissfully unaware. Now, as a jaded adult, if they'd attempt to launch Super from after the Freeza stuff, I know I'd get pissed.

It only feels like two completely different shows because you're comparing VERY early DB with DBZ, but what you aren't seeing is how it evolved over time. It would be like saying an 11 year old and the same person at 30 years old feel like completely different people.

DB failed in large part because of the crappy timeslot and syndication.

[Lord Beerus]

Honestly, a huge part of what the Saiyan arc so great, is everything that leads into it from the original Dragon Ball anime. Stuff like Goku and Piccolo teaming up, Goku getting killed, Piccolo sacrificing himself for Gohan, Tien, Yamcha and Chiaotzu dying don't feel as moments that could be as powerful as they could be if you don't know the circumstances of the development the cast went through in the original Dragon Ball anime. You'd feel more attachment to them and when they die it would certainly hit much harder.

[ABED]

Honestly, a huge part of what the Saiyan arc so great, is everything that leads into it from the original Dragon Ball anime. Stuff like Goku and Piccolo teaming up, Goku getting killed, Piccolo sacrificing himself for Gohan, Tien, Yamcha and Chiaotzu dying don't feel as moments that could be as powerful as they could be if you don't know the circumstances of the development the cast went through in the original Dragon Ball anime. You'd feel more attachment to them and when they die it would certainly hit much harder.

In DBZ, we spend such little time with Chaozu and Tenshinhan that when either die, it doesn't really land as emotional as it should. We barely know either and so elements such as their deep friendship isn't as meaningful.

[Hellspawn28]

Even if you don't count Harmony Gold's English dub as the start of Dragon Ball in the United States, you would still have the 1995 FUNimation/BLT Productions dub to consider. Dragon Ball was in syndication almost a year before Dragon Ball Z started airing, so technically the United States didn't "start" with Dragon Ball Z.

Except that and the 1996 syndication airing of DBZ were relatively obscure (the DB dub even more so, I'd say). The vast majority of North American fans got their introduction to Dragon Ball with the Cartoon Network airing of Z, and Dragon Ball didn't begin airing there until 2001.

The 1996-1998 syndication airing of DBZ was not that obscure. I remember it did well on syndication and I remember that Funimation did wanted more episodes to be produce after Goku defeat Recoome. Cartoon Network did help DBZ become popular, but DBZ was popular before it air on CN. It's like saying Family Guy and Futurama were relatively obscure shows before Adult Swim air them in 2003 (I remember watching Futurama back in 2000 and people talking about Family Guy around that time too).

I did saw Dragon Ball before I saw DBZ and could not get into it at the time. I remember being confuse by the two as I didn't know which one air first at the time. Most Kids watching DBZ at the time in 1998-2003 on CN didn't really care about the story. They mainly watch it for the action.

[ABED]

The Futurama and Family Guy examples aren't great as they were shows on a major broadcast network, not syndication. DBZ was popular back then, but not huge by any stretch. Firefly would be a more apt comparison. It was big, but amongst a niche audience. There was a period where it was unsure whether DBZ would continue after episode 53.

[Lord Beerus]

Honestly, a huge part of what the Saiyan arc so great, is everything that leads into it from the original Dragon Ball anime. Stuff like Goku and Piccolo teaming up, Goku getting killed, Piccolo sacrificing himself for Gohan, Tien, Yamcha and Chiaotzu dying don't feel as moments that could be as powerful as they could be if you don't know the circumstances of the development the cast went through in the original Dragon Ball anime. You'd feel more attachment to them and when they die it would certainly hit much harder.

In DBZ, we spend such little time with Chaozu and Tenshinhan that when either die, it doesn't really land as emotional as it should. We barely know either and so elements such as their deep friendship isn't as meaningful.

Huh? I'm talking about the original Dragon Ball anime where Tien's character certainly evolved, and with the addition of filler, you could actually sympathise with him to the point where when he dies in the Saiyan arc, and especially given the circumstances surrounding his death, it is certainly a very more powerful moment. Chiaotzu I can understand more because his character never really went through any kind development, but his bond with Tien is strong enough to make his sacrifice still a very sad and poignant moment, especially as death was still treated a very serious matter and less of a minor inconvenience as it would become after the Freeza arc.

[ABED]

Huh? I'm talking about the original Dragon Ball anime where Tien's character certainly evolved, and with the addition of filler, you could actually sympathise with him to the point where when he dies in the Saiyan arc, and especially given the circumstances surrounding his death, it is certainly a very more powerful moment. Chiaotzu I can understand more because his character never really went through any kind development, but his bond with Tien is strong enough to make his sacrifice still a very sad and poignant moment, especially as death was still treated a very serious matter and less of a minor inconvenience as it would become after the Freeza arc.

I'm not sure what you're confused by. Even with filler, such little time is spend with Tenshinhan, especially in the Ocean dub, that his death has very little impact. His bond with Tenshinhan is strong, but you don't see much of it in DBZ, not enough for people who have only seen Z to really get invested in it.

[Hellspawn28]

That's why the first 13 episodes and the DB movies were dubbed by the Ocean cast (I remember asking my parents to buy the VHS tapes from Suncoast Video in a mall... good times).

Man those are the good old days. Seeing anime ads at Same Goody and buying anime on VHS. I'm rather glad that we did skip to DBZ as it shown to become more popular. If DB did well and didn't skip to DBZ, we would have to wait longer for DBZ. We would probably get DBZ until 1999 and GT until 2006.

[ABED]

That's why the first 13 episodes and the DB movies were dubbed by the Ocean cast (I remember asking my parents to buy the VHS tapes from Suncoast Video in a mall... good times).

Man those are the good old days. Seeing anime ads at Same Goody and buying anime on VHS. I'm rather glad that we did skip to DBZ as it shown to become more popular. If DB did well and didn't skip to DBZ, we would have to wait longer for DBZ. We would probably get DBZ until 1999 and GT until 2006.

But those of us who love DB more had to wait for 5+ years before we got to see all of Dragon Ball.

[Lord Beerus]

Huh? I'm talking about the original Dragon Ball anime where Tien's character certainly evolved, and with the addition of filler, you could actually sympathise with him to the point where when he dies in the Saiyan arc, and especially given the circumstances surrounding his death, it is certainly a very more powerful moment. Chiaotzu I can understand more because his character never really went through any kind development, but his bond with Tien is strong enough to make his sacrifice still a very sad and poignant moment, especially as death was still treated a very serious matter and less of a minor inconvenience as it would become after the Freeza arc.

I'm not sure what you're confused by. Even with filler, such little time is spend with Tenshinhan, especially in the Ocean dub, that his death has very little impact. His bond with Tenshinhan is strong, but you don't see much of it in DBZ, not enough for people who have only seen Z to really get invested in it.

But the point I'm trying to make isn't that if you only watch DBZ that the death of characters like Chiaotzu and Tien would have little impact on you at a personal level. It that's watching the original Dragon Ball anime would maker their death carry more weight and meaning.

[ABED]

I wasn't responding in disagreement. I was adding to it because I agree, their deaths don't work on emotional level without having experienced that history.

[Xeztin]

I also seen Dragon Ball Z first and while I wished I started with Dragon Ball, As a kid I never really felt like I was missing anything. It's one of those show's that could have no predecessor and it'd do just fine. While Dragon Ball is amazing and does make more impact later on in Z, it isn't truly needed and one can enjoy Z all on it's own like my friends and I did growing up. You get that these are people that Goku want's to protect, (Kuririn triggering SSJ) and there wasn't really anything needed other than that. I will say that I felt "cheated" after finding out years later there was an original Dragon Ball about Goku's childhood but hey, what can you do?

[ABED]

I will say that I felt "cheated" after finding out years later there was an original Dragon Ball about Goku's childhood but hey, what can you do?

Go back and watch the first series.

[Lord Beerus]

I wasn't responding in disagreement. I was adding to it because I agree, their deaths don't work on emotional level without having experienced that history.

Ah, okay. My misunderstanding.

[nite_jay]

Both series could be watched and enjoyed by themselves. Both have pretty nice endings that wrap most if not all loose ends together. Honestly, I would've liked DB's ending to be the complete ending of the series more than DBZ's ending (from a story standpoint, at least).

[MajinMan]

Let's say there's a newcomer to the franchise and he or she is asking how to start watching the show. Would you tell him or her that DB is skippable and that they can just watch Z? Of course not. Starting at Z in today's world is just like starting at Shippuden for Naruto. It makes no sense and is a butchered way of experiencing Dragon Ball. Growing up in America, I really wish they had aired DB before Z, but I understand why they didn't. It would have cleared up a lot of ignorance in the fanbase.